Dr. Jack Kevorkian will be paroled in June

chopitdown · December 2006

macgyver06 wrote:

you have to be a special kind of doctor/person to risk you entire career..your entire lifes work because you care this much about a person you may not even know, but to know you don't want them to suffer and to know that they know what they want.

he went to jail because people don't worry about themselves, and don't respect themselves, setting laws against something that doesnt concern them.

yes you do have to be "special"...being special doesn't make it right. Like I said,I understand why people would want to do that. It's not me being callous; i have an issue with the medical community partaking in it.

chopitdown · December 2006

macgyver06 wrote:

oh and dont twist my words around...i meant he did nothing wrong.

because he didn't...its not opinion...you can twist whatever you want around..but to damn a hero is wrong...

oh and matisyahu isnt that great

a hero...are you delussional?

what the hell does matisyahu have to do with anything?

The Waiting Trophy Man · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

you're assuming a right to die exists. And legally (which is why Kevorkian went to jail) it is very difficult to prove.

Also, i guess since i am affiliated with the medical profession I have a huge problem with a physician helping someone die. The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath, has held that physicians may intend to save lives and relieve suffering, but they may not intend as their primary purpose the deaths of their patients.

Now if someone wants to OD on antifreeze / drugs (that they obtained some other way) or blow their brains out, that's their decision. My opinion is that a medical professional should not help that end be met, as in assisted suicide. I'm not even getting into the right to die debate here, b/c i know where people stand and it's not worth it. My problem is with a medical professional doing it.

knock knock, anybody home?? hello?? newsflash: everybody dies. and the people kevorkian was helping to die were terminally ill, which means death was inevitable and they were suffering. they didn't want to suffer anymore so they went to him for help. it's the humane thing to do rather than let someone lay on their death bed in pain and agony with no hope of recovering. why can't people like you get that through your head?? get real.

hippiemom · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

you're assuming a right to die exists. And legally (which is why Kevorkian went to jail) it is very difficult to prove.

Also, i guess since i am affiliated with the medical profession I have a huge problem with a physician helping someone die. The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath, has held that physicians may intend to save lives and relieve suffering, but they may not intend as their primary purpose the deaths of their patients.

Now if someone wants to OD on antifreeze / drugs (that they obtained some other way) or blow their brains out, that's their decision. My opinion is that a medical professional should not help that end be met, as in assisted suicide. I'm not even getting into the right to die debate here, b/c i know where people stand and it's not worth it. My problem is with a medical professional doing it.

Sometimes death is the ONLY WAY to relieve suffering. How is that harmful if the person is dying anyway?

jeffbr · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

Also, i guess since i am affiliated with the medical profession I have a huge problem with a physician helping someone die. The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath, has held that physicians may intend to save lives and relieve suffering, but they may not intend as their primary purpose the deaths of their patients.

Fair enough. How do you feel about hospice programs? Clearly their intent is to relieve suffering, but just as clearly their intent is not to "save lives" but rather to make the inevitable more tolerable.

chopitdown · December 2006

aBoxOfFear wrote:

knock knock, anybody home?? hello?? newsflash: everybody dies. and the people kevorkian was helping to die were terminally ill, which means death was inevitable and they were suffering. they didn't want to suffer anymore so they went to him for help. it's the humane thing to do rather than let someone lay on their death bed in pain and agony with no hope of recovering. why can't people like you get that through your head?? get real.

if you're so terminal that there's no hope and you want to die, end your life...I have an issue with a physician or helping to end someones life.

1970RR · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

you're assuming a right to die exists. And legally (which is why Kevorkian went to jail) it is very difficult to prove.

Also, i guess since i am affiliated with the medical profession I have a huge problem with a physician helping someone die. The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath, has held that physicians may intend to save lives and relieve suffering, but they may not intend as their primary purpose the deaths of their patients.

Now if someone wants to OD on antifreeze / drugs (that they obtained some other way) or blow their brains out, that's their decision. My opinion is that a medical professional should not help that end be met, as in assisted suicide. I'm not even getting into the right to die debate here, b/c i know where people stand and it's not worth it. My problem is with a medical professional doing it.

Wouldnt providing the means to end ones life qualify as "relieve suffering"?

hippiemom · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

if you're so terminal that there's no hope and you want to die, end your life...I have an issue with a physician or helping to end someones life.

Right, because bedridden little old ladies won't have any trouble at all getting out and purchasing a lethal dose of narcotics.

boxwine_in_hell · December 2006

Kevorkian is only 78? Damn, dude looked like he was 78 when he was whacking people.

chopitdown · December 2006

jeffbr wrote:

Fair enough. How do you feel about hospice programs? Clearly their intent is to relieve suffering, but just as clearly their intent is not to "save lives" but rather to make the inevitable more tolerable.

I think hospice is great. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be comforted or be made comfortable for their last days or when the cancer is so painful it hurts to do anythin, i've SEEN it happen to people I love. To me I draw the line with ending the suffering (through forced death). I also think that if it's inevitable a.k.a machine is breathing for someone, there is no brain activity etc... that they should remove care. There's a difference b/t letting nature take it's course (removing care and someone can't survive on their own) and forcing natures hand (medically speaking).

chopitdown · December 2006

1970RR wrote:

Wouldnt providing the means to end ones life qualify as "relieve suffering"?

perhaps i conveyed that poorly. I tried to be careful with my phrasing, b/c of this. it's relief of suffering through pain modulation / sedation vs forcing death. But yes, both could be construed as relieving suffering, but to me there is a distinction.

The Waiting Trophy Man · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

if you're so terminal that there's no hope and you want to die, end your life...I have an issue with a physician or helping to end someones life.

what do you want them to do, blow their brains out?? slash their wrists?? just because they wanted out of their misery doesn't mean they had it in them to do by themselves. dr. kevorkian assisted them and helped them do it a little cleaner. he injected them and they fell asleep. nice and easy. no more pain. no more suffering.

hippiemom · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

I think hospice is great. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be comforted or be made comfortable for their last days or when the cancer is so painful it hurts to do anythin, i've SEEN it happen to people I love. To me I draw the line with ending the suffering (through forced death). I also think that if it's inevitable a.k.a machine is breathing for someone, there is no brain activity etc... that they should remove care. There's a difference b/t letting nature take it's course (removing care and someone can't survive on their own) and forcing natures hand (medically speaking).

Most of us would look down on anyone who allowed their dog or cat to suffer when it became obvious that there's no cure available, but it's good enough for grandma?

There's a difference between "forced" death and "chosen" death.

chopitdown · December 2006

hippiemom wrote:

Sometimes death is the ONLY WAY to relieve suffering. How is that harmful if the person is dying anyway?

i agree whole heartedly. It seems like people don't want to read that I have a problem with the MEDICAL community partaking in it.

hippiemom · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

perhaps i conveyed that poorly. I tried to be careful with my phrasing, b/c of this. it's relief of suffering through pain modulation / sedation vs forcing death. But yes, both could be construed as relieving suffering, but to me there is a distinction.

You know as well as I do that there often comes a point when it isn't possible to relieve suffering. I know the Hippocratic Oath says that you should do no harm, but if no recovery is possible and the person WANTS to die, who exactly is being harmed?

chopitdown · December 2006

aBoxOfFear wrote:

what do you want them to do, blow their brains out?? slash their wrists?? just because they wanted out of their misery doesn't mean they had it in them to do by themselves. dr. kevorkian assisted them and helped them do it a little cleaner. he injected them and they fell asleep. nice and easy. no more pain. no more suffering.

i know what Kevorkian did. And I know they prob went peaceful. I just don't agree with it. for reasons i've mentioned ad nauseum.

1970RR · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

perhaps i conveyed that poorly. I tried to be careful with my phrasing, b/c of this. it's relief of suffering through pain modulation / sedation vs forcing death. But yes, both could be construed as relieving suffering, but to me there is a distinction.

How do you feel about the Oregon law? It allows for doctors to prescribe drugs in a quantity that can be used for suicide, but the doctor does not actually participate - they just prescribe the drugs. The patient has the choice of whether or not to actually use the drugs.

chopitdown · December 2006

hippiemom wrote:

Most of us would look down on anyone who allowed their dog or cat to suffer when it became obvious that there's no cure available, but it's good enough for grandma?

There's a difference between "forced" death and "chosen" death.

I don't think cats and dogs are equal to humans (shit, here goes another page or 2 of getting jumped on

)

I understand the arguments from both sides very well. I understand why people feel Kevorkian was a hero. I just choose (after weighing the issues) to come down on a different side than you do (and it seems most people here today). My opinion is no less informed than anyone elses. It is my opinion...I used to be for PA suicide on some level. It has changed since then.

chopitdown · December 2006

hippiemom wrote:

You know as well as I do that there often comes a point when it isn't possible to relieve suffering. I know the Hippocratic Oath says that you should do no harm, but if no recovery is possible and the person WANTS to die, who exactly is being harmed?

that's the internal argument that i go through each time someone brings up assisted suicide. But I can't in good conscience support it.

norm · December 2006

chopitdown wrote:

i agree whole heartedly. It seems like people don't want to read that I have a problem with the MEDICAL community partaking in it.

Well do you think that the medical community should rethink assisted suicide?

Dr. Jack Kevorkian will be paroled in June

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