Courage to Resist

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  • musicismylife78
    musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    Ericastrada wrote:
    I’d probably take you a little more seriously if you didn’t feel the need to call people idiots and jerks when they disagree with you. Here is a grand idea, if you don’t want to join the military, don’t do it. Not that it would really make a difference if you did. You wouldn’t survive the first week of basic training.


    its pretty obvious you didnt want to take me seriously at all. In my inital post i didnt say one thing that rang true or was valid? You dismissed my entire post, and acted like I didnt understand cause I wasnt in the military. Your damn right, I havent ever been in the military, but that doesnt mean I dont understand what recruiters do, and what the miltary does to pull the wool over enlistees eyes.

    Dont act like I am some naive person. I may not have been in uniform, but I have been fighting since 2001 to get the troops home and I have been educating people about the dangers of recruitment
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Cheguevara6 wrote:
    because recruiters arent bound by any rules in that respect. The recruiter can even write stuff into the contract, and they can even sign their signiture on it, but it doesnt mean a thing. For instance a recruiter can say "I will station you in hawaii and you wont be sent to iraq", and they can write it into the contract, and sign it, but it doesnt mean anything. Its worthless.

    Its a game. They are trying to get the most recruits to win the fancy ferarri given to the recruiter who has the most enlistees.

    Hehe...no. Recruiters are not writing "I will station you in hawaii" into the recruitment contracts.

    The reason recruiters don't have to deliver on their promises, is because their promises are meaningless and empty. When you join the military, you aren't joining the recruiter, you are joining the organization. And the contract you sign states that the organization can effectively do with you whatever they please. The contract is not complicated. It's not in the fine print. It's on page 2 in 14-point type.

    If stupidity is an excuse, how could you ever reject war?
  • musicismylife78
    musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...no. Recruiters are not writing "I will station you in hawaii" into the recruitment contracts.

    The reason recruiters don't have to deliver on their promises, is because their promises are meaningless and empty. When you join the military, you aren't joining the recruiter, you are joining the organization. And the contract you sign states that the organization can effectively do with you whatever they please. The contract is not complicated. It's not in the fine print. It's on page 2 in 14-point type.

    If stupidity is an excuse, how could you ever reject war?


    how many people enlisting read that and think about that though?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    69charger wrote:
    YEAH! Right on! I don't want to pay on my car loan anymore! I don't feel like paying off my credit cards either! I shouldn't get in trouble either! Even though, as an adult of clear mind, I voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract and it is my responsibility to make good on the terms of that contract or face penalties of my actions! Fuck it!

    YEAH!

    :rolleyes:

    if your car company lied to you to influence you buy their product, then you go tthe car and it was lemon that was dangerous to drive, then i hope you would stand up for yourself, and what it right.

    not to mention your comparing a credit card to a fucking war zone :rolleyes:


    some folks have been trained very well, that a signature or contract overrules everything and is the almighty decision maker. fucking suckers. it is only a piece of paper, when will you realize that?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    funny how some people are willing to put a piece of paper before a persons heart, brain, soul, life, and family.

    you guys should be supporting anyone that wants to avoid the choas and immorality of war.

    a contract cannot force someone to murder, or commit a crime. by the way.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Cheguevara6 wrote:
    how many people enlisting read that and think about that though?

    Hehe...most probably read it -- it's only a few pages long. I doubt very many actually think about it though. And that's the problem.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    my2hands wrote:
    funny how some people are willing to put a piece of paper before a persons heart, brain, soul, life, and family.

    you guys should be supporting anyone that wants to avoid the choas and immorality of war.

    a contract cannot force someone to murder, or commit a crime. by the way.

    I certainly support anyone who wants to avoid the chaos and immorality of war. Seems kind of odd to attach that, however, to the people who sign a document stating that they turn over their heart, brain, soul and life to the military.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I certainly support anyone who wants to avoid the chaos and immorality of war. Seems kind of odd to attach that, however, to the people who sign a document stating that they turn over their heart, brain, soul and life to the military.


    The Iraq war is illegal and unjust. period. i fully support anyone that doesnt want to participate in this tragedy, regardless of a signature.

    A good friend of mine at work has just been called up. He joined the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. He has been sent to New Orleans after Katrina and to the Southern border for border patrol. He just passed all the exams to become a state police officer. He got the news that he was being sent to Iraq in June. He immediately had to marry his high school sweetheart so she could be taken care of in case of a tragedy. he has to serve 15 months, a talented great young man of 23, now has to uproot his life and go to a war zone. he is a bright young man, and a tremendous contributor to society. he is fucking freaked out. you can see the fear in his eyes when we talk about it. he strongly supports getting EVERYBODY the fuck out of there right now. i have offered to take him to canada or help him stay low around here, but that would ruin his life? so he says "i signed up" so i will go. but you can see the fear. you can see the depression of his nice life being thrown into an insane tailspin. all because he signed up for the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. pretty fucking sad. the war is "lost" (whatever that means) and this is pointless. how many more have to die? how many more young men and women have to be torn from thier familes foer this bullshit? i say they all revolt and refuse to go. that would be much braver that blindly obeying some bullshit contract.

    ther have been, and are, unjust laws, and unfair illegal contracts. you must do what is right and disobey them. just ask the hero's at the sit-ins. or the women that demanded to vote. or the draftee's that refused to go to vietnam to help in the slaugher of 1,000,000 asians. thank god there have been brave people in history that have had the brains, vision, and balls to stand against unjust "laws, contracts, and bonding agreements"
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    my2hands wrote:
    The Iraq war is illegal and unjust. period. i fully support anyone that doesnt want to participate in this tragedy, regardless of a signature.

    Hehe...it's unjust because of lies and deceit and all sorts of other wonderful things that just happen to be the behaviors you're justifying here.
    A good friend of mine at work has just been called up. He joined the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. He has been sent to New Orleans after Katrina and to the Southern border for border patrol. He just passed all the exams to become a state police officer. He got the news that he was being sent to Iraq in June. He immediately had to marry his high school sweetheart so she could be taken care of in case of a tragedy. he has to serve 15 months, a talented great young man of 23, now has to uproot his life and go to a war zone. he is a bright young man, and a tremendous contributor to society. he is fucking freaked out. you can see the fear in his eyes when we talk about it. he strongly supports getting EVERYBODY the fuck out of there right now. i have offered to take him to canada or help him stay low around here, but that would ruin his life? so he says "i signed up" so i will go. but you can see the fear. you can see the depression of his nice life being thrown into an insane tailspin. all because he signed up for the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. pretty fucking sad. the war is "lost" (whatever that means) and this is pointless. how many more have to die? how many more young men and women have to be torn from thier familes foer this bullshit? i say they all revolt and refuse to go. that would be much braver that blindly obeying some bullshit contract.

    I completely support your friend's right to desert. I'm not suggesting that anyone fight against their will.
    ther have been, and are, unjust laws, and unfair illegal contracts. you must do what is right and disobey them. just ask the hero's at the sit-ins. or the women that demanded to vote. or the draftee's that refused to go to vietnam to help in the slaugher of 1,000,000 asians. thank god there have been brave people in history that have had the brains, vision, and balls to stand against unjust "laws, contracts, and bonding agreements"

    Hehe...I won't disagree with any of this, my2hands. You will, however, the next time you talk about a law or "contract" outside the context of the Iraq war.
  • 69charger
    69charger Posts: 1,045
    my2hands wrote:
    some folks have been trained very well, that a signature or contract overrules everything and is the almighty decision maker. fucking suckers. it is only a piece of paper, when will you realize that?

    Laws are only ideas too but there is consequence for breaking them right?

    Fucking hippies...
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    69charger wrote:
    Laws are only ideas too but there is consequence for breaking them right?

    Fucking hippies...

    1. I am no hippie. perhaps you dont realize most folks think like me. they believe in peace, they believe in just actions, they believe in civil rights, they believe in standing up for whats right, they believe in a right to privacy, they believe in a right to choose, they believe in the right to dissent, they believe in workers rights, they believe in people over profit, they believe in freedom, they despise the horrors of war, and they believe in ending this illegal war and bringing home all of our men and women stuck in a hell while you blindly point to a signature on page 15.

    2. A contract or law cannot make you commit murder or commit an illegal act. I believe you have an obligation to disobey these said laws and contracts, now "lawmakers" or a "court of law" may order a punishment for breaking a law, but they are unjust for enforcing it. and they must be stood up to. they must be disobeyed. MLK jr spent time in jail for christs sakes? nd we was on the hgreatest of crusades, the crusade of equality. So you stand in line and take unjust orders that you do not support, and i will piss on the contract that orders me to participate in the slaughter of innocents humans.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    69charger wrote:
    YEAH! Right on! I don't want to pay on my car loan anymore! I don't feel like paying off my credit cards either! I shouldn't get in trouble either! Even though, as an adult of clear mind, I voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract and it is my responsibility to make good on the terms of that contract or face penalties of my actions! Fuck it!

    YEAH!

    :rolleyes:
    ...
    You CAN stop paying your car loan or your credit cards... you will be subjected to the consequences... JUST LIKE these soldiers are.
    In case you didn't know... 'Brig' is a military term for 'Jail'.
    ...
    ADD... And just because you signed up for a car loan doesn't mean the lender can tell you how to operate and where to drive your car, right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Abook, I love you, but this is really odd coming from a socialist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialist
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialist

    Oh man, Proudhon got to you too, huh?

    I'm aspiring to be a Reptile Zebra myself.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Oh man, Proudhon got to you too, huh?

    I'm aspiring to be a Reptile Zebra myself.
    Thou aspire to mockery?

    Someone got to you.

    Edit: and I'm guessing it wasn't you.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    Thou aspire to mockery?

    I'm not mocking anyone. I simply find it hard to believe that one can merge two contradictory ideals into a single ideal.
    Someone got to you, too.

    Hehe...probably.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Someone educate me ... What's the difference between libertarian socialism and communism? Communism in the Marxist sense, not communism as it is actually practiced by world governments.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Someone educate me ... What's the difference between libertarian socialism and communism? Communism in the Marxist sense, not communism as it is actually practiced by world governments.

    The Communist worships the state. The Libertarian Socialist pretends he doesn't need it to achieve his goals. Libertarian Socialism is an equal opportunity employer of disillusioned anarchists and communists alike. But perhaps I should let a less biased person address your question ;)
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    farfromglorified wrote:
    The Communist worships the state. The Libertarian Socialist pretends he doesn't need it to achieve his goals. Libertarian Socialism is an equal opportunity employer of disillusioned anarchists and communists alike. But perhaps I should let a less biases person address your question ;)

    Aha .... Nope, I got it, thanks.
    :)
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Aha .... Nope, I got it, thanks.
    :)

    In all seriousness, there are some differences. Libertarian Socialists are primarily influenced by Marx, but also by the Russian and European anarchists of the last century. I'm sure someone who subscribes to it could explain the major differentiations.

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