Courage to Resist
Abookamongstthemany
Posts: 8,209
http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/
I know there are plenty here who will say if you sign up then it's your duty and you have to obey....but I say bullshit! You're always going to be a human before a soldier. Your conscience and your abilty to choose to not participate in something you feel is wrong, unjust or not in your own best interest should always come first. People make bad decisions, are mislead, change their minds after seeing the true nature of a situation and no one should feel locked into participating in actions that they feel are wrong....I don't care how papers they have signed.
I know there are plenty here who will say if you sign up then it's your duty and you have to obey....but I say bullshit! You're always going to be a human before a soldier. Your conscience and your abilty to choose to not participate in something you feel is wrong, unjust or not in your own best interest should always come first. People make bad decisions, are mislead, change their minds after seeing the true nature of a situation and no one should feel locked into participating in actions that they feel are wrong....I don't care how papers they have signed.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
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YEAH! Right on! I don't want to pay on my car loan anymore! I don't feel like paying off my credit cards either! I shouldn't get in trouble either! Even though, as an adult of clear mind, I voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract and it is my responsibility to make good on the terms of that contract or face penalties of my actions! Fuck it!
YEAH!
:rolleyes:
Sometimes things are more important than simply obeying the law. I'm sure you've heard of the term civil disobedience. Not paying your car payment isn't quite the same thing.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/22/60minutes/main2505412.shtml
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I have been involved in antimilitary recruitment for several years. I have seen a speaker who speaks on the lies recruiters tell, and talks about conscientious objection. I saw this speaker 3 or 4 times.
I volunteered at my local peace and justice organization, and watched a video they put together on how recruiters lie and how the military doesnt tell the truth
I volunteered at my local renaissance fair and handed out flyers at a booth encouraging people to get the real facts before enlisting'
I think the military lies. I have seen actual copies of contracts that recruiters give to applicants.
potential enlistees are lied to plain and simple. The recruiter acts like they personally can promise the enlistees something. For example enlistees could askt he recruiter to have them stationed in Hawaii or something, and the recruiter usually says yes, we can do that. The truth is the recruiter isnt bound by anything, The enlistee is.
Secondly recruiters are paid by commission, and they even have giveaways for the recruiter that signs up the most people. So its in their interest to get you signed up, and not to tell you the truth about the military and war.
Third-the military is the largest and oldest old boys club around. The majority of the army and military are males. Females are the minority. It has been shown that an astounding 90 percent of women in the military report being sexually abused or harassed in some manner, ranging from words, to actual rape
75% of Black and 67% of Latinos reported experiencing racially offensive behavior.
approx. 1/3 of the army forces are people of color, yet only 16.9% are officers
1 in 5 women reported that they were denied a raise or promotion because they refused to have sex in exchange
871 service members reported being harassed because they were gay in 2000.
The Department of Labor in 2000 reported that there were over 421,000 unemployed vets
1/3 of all homeless in America are veterans
add onto that the BIG REASON to join for most people, the 20 oe 30,000 given to you to fund your college education. The facts show 1 half of 1 percent, think about that, 1 half of 1 percent actually recieve that money.
and its not like your getting education in the military. Most vets tell us that the work they did in the service isnt transferable or useful in mainstream society.
People have all the right in the world to resist the military. I know I do.
Dont enlist, you are being lied to
Then they should not voluntarily sign into an agreement in which they may very likely be asked to do something they know they aren't capable of doing.
Duh?
see my above stats
Recruiters lie. A recruiter can PROMISE a new enlistee they wont be sent into iraq and can even on the spot "write it" into the contract. But it isnt binding...for the recruiter at least.
Recruiters arent going to Beverly Hills, or Laguna Beach or Rodeo Drive. They are going after poor lower income people in bad neighborhoods, who feel their only way out
Recruiters also have this mobile video game lab they have set up, where they allow the person to "shoot" people or enemies. The game is rigged. Its easy, even for a non video game person to shoot enemies in the game, and the nationalities of the person in the games, and the recruiter in this lab is set up to look like the area they are canvassing, ie...in a poor black neighborhood, the recruiters will be black and the people in the game will be black
Pretty simple stuff.
Yes they volunteered to go to Iraq, but they wouldnt be there if they werent lied to.
the problem is...
the recruiter doesnt have to deliver ON ANY of these.
So to suggest that enlistees are stupid or are getting what they deserve as some on this thread are doing, is absurd.
If your an african american male, and your best friends have been carted off to jail, and all your friends are either dead or in jail, being promisd 50000 for college seems damn appealing. And you think the recruiter will say to that person "you are going to iraq if you enlist"? HELL NO!
there is a special place in hell for people who send children to die in an immoral and unjust war
Do you know why they don't have to deliver?
All you are doing is juat spouting off stereotypical stuff you hear about the military. You're just as bad as the recruiters.
And by the way, I recevied $45,000 to use for college. It is mine. I also received a very good loan by using my VA benefits. Plus, with the experience I gained in the military, I've got my self a sweet ass job, making really good money and I don't even have a college degree.
So is the military for everyone? No. Does the military do good things for people? You bet your ass.
And lets be serious buddy, did all your mates you enlisted with all really sign up to scrub floors and do latrine duty, or did they sign up to do the things I listed, fly planes etc...
I am really impressed...oh wait I am not, I never said anything about ALL enlistees. DONT MISquote ME! Have the decency to actually read my post. JERK!
Is the military all bad, no, there are many good people in it, but its FAR FROM PERFECT. Any institution where 90 percent of women are sexually harassed doesnt gain my respect.
You really think the military is giving away 50000 to each recruit. You must be smoking something. The military has a TON of money, but it aint going to give it to recruits. We need it to invade other countries with dark skinned poor people.
And do you really think you are getting job skills in the military? The job skills arent transferable. You obviously think differently, but a bunch of your comrades disagree.
Read the goddamn newspaper idiot! Our returning soldiers should have lots of help from people but aint getting it.
Heres something I wrote to my local newspaper and it was published: 'The lack of support for troops' mental health upon returning home is appalling and gross, as is the lack of financial support for said troops. We as a nation sent them to war, we should be willing to help them in any way we can. It pains me to no end when pondering the loss of innocence my generation has experienced as a result of the war and its aftermath and the immeasurable loss that families of soldiers must feel upon hearing their son or daughter has died in combat. We must all demand that the troops be brought home and the war end."
_____________________
END THE GODDAMN WAR AND BRING EM HOME
because recruiters arent bound by any rules in that respect. The recruiter can even write stuff into the contract, and they can even sign their signiture on it, but it doesnt mean a thing. For instance a recruiter can say "I will station you in hawaii and you wont be sent to iraq", and they can write it into the contract, and sign it, but it doesnt mean anything. Its worthless.
Its a game. They are trying to get the most recruits to win the fancy ferarri given to the recruiter who has the most enlistees.
Nov. 3, 2006 — An ABC News undercover investigation showed Army recruiters telling students that the war in Iraq was over, in an effort to get them to enlist.
ABC News and New York affiliate WABC equipped students with hidden video cameras before they visited 10 Army recruitment offices in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
“Nobody is going over to Iraq anymore?” one student asks a recruiter.
“No, we’re bringing people back,” he replies.
“We’re not at war. War ended a long time ago,” another recruiter says.
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For example, you have to have a nice car you can’t go rolling down the street in some old family wagon. You can’t be sittin’ there talking to a kid about financial stability and driving an old Ford Ranger. That just don’t get it!” He said he drove a Mustang for his personal car, and Army recruiters he knew drove “decked-out Expeditions with 20-inch rims. You have to have a little ‘bling’ [gold, jewelry, etc.] on you that kind of thing. I made sure I always dressed nice when I was off duty. You gotta play the part. Young kids are really materialistic minded.”
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Often the biggest enticement a recruiter can offer young men and women trying to escape poverty is the promise of job training, even more appealing when it’s for a MOS in data systems, aircraft electronics, aircraft crew chief, or other sought-after specialties. But as Massey acknowledged, “The Marine Corps can guarantee you a job all day long, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to actually get it.”
A common way to swindle recruits out of promised jobs is the “Moment of Truth” exercise in boot camp. New recruits are taken to a room where their DI (drill instructor) tells them to “really think about it” and see if they’ve lied while enlisting or filling out their application.
Bryant and Wilhite found that veterans averaged only 1.78 months of training in 31 months of active duty. Mangum and Ball, Ohio State researchers who received funding from the military, found that only 12% of male veterans and 6% of female veterans surveyed made any use of skills learned in the military in their civilian jobs. Barley concludes, "The evidence on rates of return to training and the probability of finding a job in one's chosen occupation, strongly suggests that, all else being equal, young people should look to sources of training other than the military if they wish to optimize their careers."
Army Times reports that over 50,000 unemployed veterans are on the waiting list for the military's "retraining" program
The American Council on Education even attributes a drop in black college enrollment to more aggressive military recruiting in the eighties. The worst thing is, often those who are forced into the military to learn a trade, or earn money for school, don't even get what they believe they were promised!
From the Army Times, Letters to the Editor, February 12, 2000
I am a recruiter and have been for two years. In that time I have done my best to accomplish my monthly mission.
Like most recruiters I continually try to find ways to depict the Army in a positive light to help me put in those two to three people Recruiting Command demands each month.
Recently, I had the idea of buying a subscription to the Army Times and putting it in the office so prospects, applicants and their families can read it.
I thought it would reinforce my "sales presentation" and aid me in getting the commitment to enlist.
However, what I found out id the Army Times isn't a good sales tool.
Don't misunderstand me. I like the job the staff at the Army Times does reporting the "real" Army.
The problem is what the real Army has seemed to become.
Allow me to give some contrasts.
I tell prospects about the great pay and benefits.
Benefits such as free medical and dental care for themselves and Tricare for their families.
They read in the Army Times about soldiers and former soldiers suffering from Gulf War illnesses and being denied treatment, about poor treatment, poor facilities and how Tricare is broken.
I tell them that joining the Army doesn't mean they can't go to college; the Army will pay 75 percent of their tuition for them to attend.
They read about back-to-back deployments to places most of them have never heard of, and how the deployments are putting a strain on marriages -- Dad and Mom missing birthdays and anniversaries for years in a row, and let's not forget the all-too-common "soldiers killed."
I tell them about the great standard of living in the Army: free housing.
The paper reports the sorry state of housing at Fort Hood, Texas, the long waiting lists and that while you wait you can stay in high-crime areas around Fort Hood.
This point has a dual contrast. I also boast about Fort Hood being the first digitized division in the Army, home of Force XXI. Does that make sense to anyone?
I boast of the upcoming pay raises.
They read how the officer corps will be the biggest beneficiaries of the pay raises and how we have a great number of soldiers on public assistance.
I have only a year left before returning to the field and I can only say it can't come soon enough.
I will continue to search for "mission box" each month and hope I can add to the success I have already enjoyed.
To the Army Times, I say keep up the good work.
I will continue to subscribe; I'll just keep it at home.
Sgt. First Class Tom Lowe
Elizabeth City, NC
You know if the VA and militarys OWN statistics show that 90 percent of women are sexually harassed, it must REALLY be bad!
how did you react to my inital posts. You took your own advice right? You didnt act passive agressive right?
I wouldnt survive basic training your right.
Read ON Killing a book by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman he talks about how in basic training its designed to wear you down, make you obedient to authority, follow commands, not to question your leaders and superiors. He talks about how basic training flips that switch in the brain, that isnt supposed to be turned on, the switch that makes it okay and acceptable for people to murder a village of old women and children.
Because lets face it once you join the military you have no free speech, or freedom of expression.
its pretty obvious you didnt want to take me seriously at all. In my inital post i didnt say one thing that rang true or was valid? You dismissed my entire post, and acted like I didnt understand cause I wasnt in the military. Your damn right, I havent ever been in the military, but that doesnt mean I dont understand what recruiters do, and what the miltary does to pull the wool over enlistees eyes.
Dont act like I am some naive person. I may not have been in uniform, but I have been fighting since 2001 to get the troops home and I have been educating people about the dangers of recruitment
Hehe...no. Recruiters are not writing "I will station you in hawaii" into the recruitment contracts.
The reason recruiters don't have to deliver on their promises, is because their promises are meaningless and empty. When you join the military, you aren't joining the recruiter, you are joining the organization. And the contract you sign states that the organization can effectively do with you whatever they please. The contract is not complicated. It's not in the fine print. It's on page 2 in 14-point type.
If stupidity is an excuse, how could you ever reject war?
how many people enlisting read that and think about that though?
if your car company lied to you to influence you buy their product, then you go tthe car and it was lemon that was dangerous to drive, then i hope you would stand up for yourself, and what it right.
not to mention your comparing a credit card to a fucking war zone :rolleyes:
some folks have been trained very well, that a signature or contract overrules everything and is the almighty decision maker. fucking suckers. it is only a piece of paper, when will you realize that?
you guys should be supporting anyone that wants to avoid the choas and immorality of war.
a contract cannot force someone to murder, or commit a crime. by the way.
Hehe...most probably read it -- it's only a few pages long. I doubt very many actually think about it though. And that's the problem.
I certainly support anyone who wants to avoid the chaos and immorality of war. Seems kind of odd to attach that, however, to the people who sign a document stating that they turn over their heart, brain, soul and life to the military.
The Iraq war is illegal and unjust. period. i fully support anyone that doesnt want to participate in this tragedy, regardless of a signature.
A good friend of mine at work has just been called up. He joined the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. He has been sent to New Orleans after Katrina and to the Southern border for border patrol. He just passed all the exams to become a state police officer. He got the news that he was being sent to Iraq in June. He immediately had to marry his high school sweetheart so she could be taken care of in case of a tragedy. he has to serve 15 months, a talented great young man of 23, now has to uproot his life and go to a war zone. he is a bright young man, and a tremendous contributor to society. he is fucking freaked out. you can see the fear in his eyes when we talk about it. he strongly supports getting EVERYBODY the fuck out of there right now. i have offered to take him to canada or help him stay low around here, but that would ruin his life? so he says "i signed up" so i will go. but you can see the fear. you can see the depression of his nice life being thrown into an insane tailspin. all because he signed up for the gaurd in 2002 to help his country. pretty fucking sad. the war is "lost" (whatever that means) and this is pointless. how many more have to die? how many more young men and women have to be torn from thier familes foer this bullshit? i say they all revolt and refuse to go. that would be much braver that blindly obeying some bullshit contract.
ther have been, and are, unjust laws, and unfair illegal contracts. you must do what is right and disobey them. just ask the hero's at the sit-ins. or the women that demanded to vote. or the draftee's that refused to go to vietnam to help in the slaugher of 1,000,000 asians. thank god there have been brave people in history that have had the brains, vision, and balls to stand against unjust "laws, contracts, and bonding agreements"
Hehe...it's unjust because of lies and deceit and all sorts of other wonderful things that just happen to be the behaviors you're justifying here.
I completely support your friend's right to desert. I'm not suggesting that anyone fight against their will.
Hehe...I won't disagree with any of this, my2hands. You will, however, the next time you talk about a law or "contract" outside the context of the Iraq war.
Laws are only ideas too but there is consequence for breaking them right?
Fucking hippies...