get a load of this,...

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Comments

  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    decides2dream wrote:
    point is, say it was a polish flag he was flying, would you still hold the same opinion that it is a-ok? i couldn't care less that he is flying the american flag or any other...the point is....working with the community you choose to live in...not going agains t it.
    She has a point.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    using your american flag as a door mat doesnt count.
    Don't be silly. I was raised by WWII vets, I know better than to let my flag touch the ground. It's safely and respectfully stored away, ready to be flown if and when the ideals it represents once again become a reality.

    As for The Donald, what happened to personal responsibility? It's a free country, he can live where he likes. He CHOSE to live in a community that has standards and laws in place to enforce them.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    hippiemom wrote:
    Don't be silly. I was raised by WWII vets, I know better than to let my flag touch the ground. It's safely and respectfully stored away, ready to be flown if and when the ideals it represents once again become a reality.

    Whoa !!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    decides2dream wrote:
    working with the community you choose to live in...not going agains t it.

    Does that not apply to those who are challenging Mr Trump?
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    I am a City Planner and about a third of what I do is taking away property rights. Another third probably indirectly leads to taking away property rights. I am totally comfortable with that.

    Zoning codes are very specific and at times do not seem to be about common sense. Sure, who does not like to see an American Flag that is the same size as the ones that they fly at Perkins? But what if that became a North Korean flag? I assure you that any City in America would not be able to make an exception for this just because it's an American Flag.

    I know that at least one person on here will disagree with any argument I make for zoning, but here 'goes. Hippiemom's point is that these rules exist to protect neighbors from each other. If he wants to say "that rule sucks" then she will start putting cars up on blocks in her yard. Hey, who's going to stop her?

    The reason zoning (which make no mistake, is the taking of propery rights) exists is so that your neighbor can't put a rendering plant or a pig farm in his back yard and expose you to annoying or even dangerous things (plummeting your property value). Zoning exists because you can't just leave it to neighbors and the market to even this stuff out. Most of you would be appalled if your next door neighbor started selling porn 24/7 and some "interesting" people were around at all hours.

    Now this flag issue is not that blatant. It is not dangerous. The rules exist because 50 foot tall flags were deemed unsightly. I can see that. I am glad my neighbor does not have one. Just because it's the American Flag does not mean people can break these rules. Is it a good rule? Debatable. Again, if the rule disappears, it cannot just be for the US flag, but for a UN flag or a peace logo flag, or heavan forbid, a rainbow flag.

    My City does not require a permit for a flag pole and does not have a height limit that I know of (it has not come up in the 15 months I have been here), so the rule is not universal.

    I tend, however (liberal commie that thinks property rights are overrated that I am) to think that it is good because I find that to be unsightly--not an indictment on the US flag itself, just the size/height of this particular one, which does not fit in with the area.

    Edited for Grammar
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Does that not apply to those who are challenging Mr Trump?


    the code is already in place...so they are simply asking him to comply to the community he chose to live in. and in fact, since one is allowed to allpy for permits, perhaps one would be granted in any case...so to me, the point is to respect your community and comply to the codes of your community. pretty clear-cut to me....but i am sure you can mange to talk round and round...and yea, i have no desire to do so. :) i think my opinion is clear enough and i'll leave it at that.


    uncle leo..thank you - exactly!
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    sonicreducer wrote:
    id pay $250 a day if i were him. it's not like his pockets aren't deep.

    would that be considered civil disobediance?


    Hey, it's worked for Atlanta and that EPA fine.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    decides2dream wrote:
    and in fact, since one is allowed to allpy for permits, perhaps one would be granted in any case...

    Doubtful. If the rules do not allow the height or size, the City staff would have no leg to stand on in granting it. However, he could apply for a variance to the rules (you need a hardship, in theory, which he does not have, but these thigns tend to be decided politically and by volunteer boards of people who want to be nice) and he may or may not get it.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    I am a City Planner and about a third of what I do is taking away property rights. Another third probably indirectly leads to taking away property rights. I am totally comfortable with that.

    Does that fit on a business card?
    Zoning codes are very specific and at times do not seem to be about common sense. Sure, who does not like to see an American Flag that is the same size as the ones that they fly at Perkins? But what if that became a North Korean flag? I assure you that any City in America would not be able to make an acception for this just because it's an American Flag.

    I think flying a North Korean flag on your property should be your right. Call me crazy.
    I know that at least one person on here will disagree with any argument I make for zoning, but here 'goes. Hippiemom's point is that these rules exist to protect neighbors from each other. If he wants to say "that rule sucks" then she will start putting cars up on blocks in her yard. Hey, who's going to stop her?

    How are "protection" and "putting cars up on blocks" related?
    The reason zoning (which make no mistake, is the taking of propery rights) exists is so that your neighbor can't put a rendering plant or a pig farm in his back yard and expose you to annoying or even dangerous things (plummeting your property value). Zoning exists because you can't just leave it to neighbors and the market to even this stuff out. Most of you would be appalled if your next door neighbor started selling porn 24/7 and some "interesting" people were around at all hours.

    How am I entitled to a property value?
    Now this flag issue is not that blatant. It is not dangerous. The rules exist because 50 foot tall flags were deemed unsightly. I can see that. I am glad my neighbor does not have one. Just because it's the American Flag does not mean people can break these rules. Is it a good rule? Debatable. Again, if the rule disappears, it cannot just be for the US flag, but for a UN flag or a peace logo flag, or heavan forbid, a rainbow flag.

    I like rainbows.
    My City does not require a permit for a flag pole and does not have a height limit that I know of (it has not come up in the 15 months I have been here), so the rule is not universal.

    Sounds like a good city.
    I tend, however (liberal commie that thinks property rights are overrated that I am) to think that it is good because I find that to be unsightly--not an indictment on the US flag itself, just the size/height of this particular one, which does not fit in with the area.

    Houses, at some point, "didn't fit with the area". Should we get rid of those?
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    Doubtful. If the rules do not allow the height or size, the City staff would have no leg to stand on in granting it. However, he could apply for a variance to the rules (you need a hardship, in theory, which he does not have, but these thigns tend to be decided politically and by volunteer boards of people who want to be nice) and he may or may not get it.


    thus why i said...'perhaps'. :)
    and yes, variances do get issued...but i think the main point is...ALL should follow the rules in place for their community, it is FOR the community that they are there...and if you don't like em, well then, don't live there.

    and this sort of comment:

    Trump responded in a letter last week saying that "anyone who objects should not, in my opinion, hold a public office of any kind -- at least not in this country."


    rubs me the wrong way....just b/c you choose to display a flag does not make you immune...and perhaps some don't want to live right near a flag that blocks out the sun?

    the rules ARE there, clearly...and ALL within the community should follow, and certainly not think they are above compliance. if his flag is allowed....what next?

    so i do agree....a permit probably wouldn't be granted...and maybe that's why he chose to do what he did and how he did it....b/c a $250 fine a day, how much of a hardship is that for trump in any case? so it's his choice..but at the very least...the community must inforce the consequences.

    funny...this all just reminded me of that thread not too long ago about i think? mos def and his improv, and non-approved, performance outside the grammys. to me, same principle. not to rehash that debate, just sayin'. :)


    alrighty, i'm out before i get sucked into talking round and round an issue that to me, pretty clear-cut...but you all have fun! :p
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


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