I Love This Woman With All My Heart

lucylespian wrote:

Why not dude, Muslims feel free to insult "Westerners" all the time, and seem to derive great satisfaction from it. Feeling free to freely call us "infidels" in a totally derogatory way, and having no inhibition about attacking whatever about our culture they don't like.

I admire this woman also. She is showing her defiance and unwillingness to be cowed by these people.

There should be more of this from the Western world. I love her too !!!!!!!!!!

If I wear a shirt with chirst giving a blowjob to a pig, will you love me?

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

"She later received support from psychologists drafted to help victims' families through the trial, Spanish media reported."

This does speak volumes, does it not?

I don't know about volumes for me... spoken and unspoken volumes for the victim's families, I'm sure, for rest of their lives.

I agree, gue, and one can only feel deep, sincere pity for the families. They're not only bereaved by the sudden loss of loved ones, they're the victims of a violent massacre, apparently caused by people with a different belief system and value of human life. This one person's anger against her husband's alleged attackers is wholly understandable. But, without wanting to condescend or go into pop-psych talk, I have to note that the article states, she received further grief counselling after the incident (the inference of this detail being that her actions brought her to the attention of psychologists).

It must be very difficult to deal with the thought that one has lost a loved one to a paramilitary agenda so inhumane and ideologically extremist, but not get sucked into the maddening folly of revenge-lust (which is usually very soul destroying). How does one come to terms with the murder of one's closest soulmate, not in the corny sense of "finding closure" (which I think must be impossible), but to the degree that one's anger gives way to something else? That something else, not necessarily being forgiveness or acceptance of the murderer's intentions or actions, but the realisation that prolonged conflict with them is ultimately irrational and self harming?

In trying as an empathetic person to understand her anger, pain, suffering and grief, maybe one shouldn't - as some might - advocate her behaviour as the best way of dealing with her husband's murder. Surely, concern for her longterm wellbeing (which must rise above the cycle of revenge and soul-killing ire, which political and religious fanaticism so often causes) must be our best way of expressing love for her. It would be more constructive than somehow willing on her desperately sad, passive-aggressive acts of revenge, would it not? The psychologists in court must have thought this, too, with the individual bereaved, rather than politics, as their main concern.

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I agree, gue, and one can only feel deep, sincere pity for the families. They're not only bereaved by the sudden loss of loved ones, they're the victims of a violent massacre, apparently caused by people with a different belief system and value of human life. This one person's anger against her husband's alleged attackers is wholly understandable. But, without wanting to condescend or go into pop-psych talk, I have to note that the article states, she received further grief counselling after the incident (the inference of this detail being that her actions brought her to the attention of psychologists).

It must be very difficult to deal with the thought that one has lost a loved one to a paramilitary agenda so inhumane and ideologically extremist, but not get sucked into the maddening folly of revenge-lust (which is usually very soul destroying). How does one come to terms with the murder of one's closest soulmate, not in the corny sense of "finding closure" (which I think must be impossible), but to the degree that one's anger gives way to something else? That something else, not necessarily being forgiveness or acceptance of the murderer's intentions or actions, but the realisation that prolonged conflict with them is ultimately irrational and self harming?

In trying as an empathetic person to understand her anger, pain, suffering and grief, maybe one shouldn't - as some might - advocate her behaviour as the best way of dealing with her husband's murder. Surely, concern for her longterm wellbeing (which must rise above the cycle of revenge and soul-killing ire, which political and religious fanaticism so often causes) must be our best way of expressing love for her. It would be more constructive than somehow willing on her desperately sad, passive-aggressive acts of revenge, would it not? The psychologists in court must have thought this, too, with the individual bereaved, rather than politics, as their main concern.

Brilliant post, Fins.

MrBrian wrote:

I can see that, I just think that it would've made more sense if her husband was killed by someone angry about the cartoons. then wear the cartoon shirt in protest.

The train bombings was about the iraq war, it was something kinda different. it was bad, but I think most of spain knew the cause of it. that's why they quickly changed the pro war government.

MrBrian wrote:

Spain was a target for helping out in the Iraq war, what did it have to do with the cartoons?

Also remember, right after the bombing, the spanish people spoke, they elected a new government.
I feel sorry for her, but I just don't get it.

Do you feel sorry for her because you think she is ignorant and small minded, or because she lost her husband in a terrorist attack? Sounded rather condescending to say you sympathize with her.

The train bombings being about Iraq (whatever) would never justify it, but yet you do. That is just plain wrong thinking.

She wore the tshirt because she wanted to piss them off, what is sad is that is all she can do ... she doesn't really have any other options does she?

No matter how much anyone hates the Iraq war, there is no justification for acts of terrorism. I cannot critize someone who has suffered from this violence for something as inane as wearing a tshirt.

Want to criticize, pick on someone who actually kills people.

WindNoSail wrote:

Do you feel sorry for her because you think she is ignorant and small minded, or because she lost her husband in a terrorist attack? Sounded rather condescending to say you sympathize with her.

The train bombings being about Iraq (whatever) would never justify it, but yet you do. That is just plain wrong thinking.

She wore the tshirt because she wanted to piss them off, what is sad is that is all she can do ... she doesn't really have any other options does she?

No matter how much anyone hates the Iraq war, there is no justification for acts of terrorism. I cannot critize someone who has suffered from this violence for something as inane as wearing a tshirt.

Want to criticize, pick on someone who actually kills people.

of course I feel sorry for her, I said that in my post. whatever else you think after that I'm not even gonna get into.

I've had very very close relatives killed before. shot on the streets, in homes in south africa. the mothers (my aunts) screaming "keffer" (sp?) because the people who are doing the killings are black. I feel sorry that they lost their sons and daughters. I mean they were my cousins! But I still call them (my aunts and uncles)ignorant and stupid for screaming racist terms to try and make the pain go away. because you know what? it does'nt really help.

Now this spain situation is a bit different, but the base of it I feel is the same.

Now you want to talk about justification? this woman should be angry at the government for going into the war that caused this. I'm not saying the bombings were good, of course not. what did the people on the train have to do with the war? of course, nothing. but you want a fact? the bombings helped shift the power to an anti war government. does that make the bombings justified? no, but at least some good came out of it.

I guess I'm still not understanding what it is that she has done that would require psychological evalution.

It seems to me that she wanted to lodge her protest and show that she was unbowed to the killers of her husband and she chose a non violent, fairly inventive way to do that.

Why would that require her to talk to psychologists?

I think the reporting of her undergoing discussion with psychologists undermines the power of her protest and her right to speak her truth and that seems not right to me.

Perhaps the ones needing to talk to psychologists are the bombers?

Ahnimus wrote:

If I wear a shirt with chirst giving a blowjob to a pig, will you love me?

Did I kill your wife because of religion?

I think it was a great thing for her to do... obviously the trial would be painful for the families and she would need help getting through it... but this is one thing SHE can do, without physically hurting them, to make them see how fucking hypocritical they've been... they can't see images of their prophet being made fun of... but it's ok to kill people to make their point :rolleyes: . She's wearing a t-shirt to make a point.

Jeanie wrote:

I guess I'm still not understanding what it is that she has done that would require psychological evalution.

It seems to me that she wanted to lodge her protest and show that she was unbowed to the killers of her husband and she chose a non violent, fairly inventive way to do that.

Why would that require her to talk to psychologists?

I think the reporting of her undergoing discussion with psychologists undermines the power of her protest and her right to speak her truth and that seems not right to me.

Nicely put Jeanie

Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful for her to forgive these men and show some love and support for them... that would be a beautiful act... but this woman is not fucking Jesus! You try losing a loved one for somebody elses cause and see how much love and forgiveness you want to show.

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nicely put Jeanie

Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful for her to forgive these men and show some love and support for them... that would be a beautiful act... but this woman is not fucking Jesus! You try losing a loved one for somebody elses cause and see how much love and forgiveness you want to show.

Thanks Helen.:)

I have to say that I would never intentionally offend someone for their religious beliefs, and whilst I am aware that Muslims have found the Danish cartoons extremely offensive, I would like to hope that most good Muslims are more appalled by acts of extremism and terror than by cartoons. I don't consider the men who perpertrated the acts of violence in Madrid to be worthy of respect for their religious beliefs. And if this woman wanted to be truly offensive she would have denounced all Muslims. There could have been so many other things she could have said or done if she truly wanted to be offensive or vicious. She didn't even speak. But she also spoke volumes.