left vs right, democrat vs. republican?!?!

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  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    know1 wrote:
    The parties ruin everything. I'd like to see someone run on their own beliefs and morals and forget the parties.

    Beliefs and morals are nice and all, but they can't pay for attack ads, campaign staff, pollsters, lawn signs, etc. As long as it takes literally millions upon millions of dollars to run for president, and hundreds of thousands to run for the Senate/House of Representatives, the only people who will be able to run for higher office will be billionaires and the party endorsed-candidates. Senator Clinton raised over $400,000 going into a primary campaign in which she ended up getting over 80% of the vote! Of course the money was raised more for 2008, but that's exactly the point. I don't want to bag too much on capitalism, but it's had a huge influence on our political system, both in campaigning and governing, and it's been mostly negative.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • ?ing my education
    ?ing my education Posts: 313
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Actually, the people who vote for the parties "ruin everything".

    Should the people not vote at all or is that just as bad as voting for "the lesser evil"?
    Driving in my car, smoking a cigar. The only time I'm happy is when I play my guitar.

    -from "n.s.u." by Cream
  • Vedderlution_Baby
    Vedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=215084

    I've been saying this for a while now
  • ?ing my education
    ?ing my education Posts: 313
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=215084

    I've been saying this for a while now


    Sorry about that. I didn't see that thread. Seems few people want to discuss it though. I guess it's easier to just take sides and let the explicits fly! :)
    Driving in my car, smoking a cigar. The only time I'm happy is when I play my guitar.

    -from "n.s.u." by Cream
  • Vedderlution_Baby
    Vedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    ?ing my education wrote:
    Sorry about that. I didn't see that thread. Seems few people want to discuss it though. I guess it's easier to just take sides and let the explicits fly! :)


    No dude it's fine. I would rather have the questions out there than me taking all the credit for it. No kidding about people just taking sides and not discussing anything. It's pretty ridiculous.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    ?ing my education wrote:
    Should the people not vote at all or is that just as bad as voting for "the lesser evil"?

    It's a tough, tough question. Personally, I refuse to vote against something by voting for something else. It's why I've always thought that US ballots should include a deduction vote or a "none of the above" option. As the system stands today, I abstain from most votes. For example, I did not vote for the senatorial race in the last election because neither candidate earned my vote, even though I disliked one of the candidates more than the other. Furthermore, I will almost never vote for a major party candidate.

    But in all honesty such actions accomplish little on their own. My only hope is that more people will vote as I do -- on principle alone. "Republican" and "democrat" are no longer indicitive of any system of principles, and anti-principle party line is how the vast majority of people vote. I could care less at this point what principles people choose when they vote. I just wish it would enter into their minds that a political figure is only defined by their principles.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,361
    Cosmo wrote:
    I think the outlook is bleak. I have NEVER seen the nation as divided as it is today... and I was around during Viet Nam. Even back then, it wasn't by political party, but more along class lines or ideological (pro-War/anti-War) camps. Viet Nam was seen as a War waged by our collective government and fought by our poorest young men.
    Today... I see the 'dumbing' effect seeping into the political arena. This didn't exist before because politics has always been complicated and multi-faceted and not necessarily what it seems to be. You had to (and still have to) look beyond what is written and what is said to find out the truth of what it is. It is real easy today to flip it to the Cable station that tells you what things are. Too many people accept the world inside that box as reality and truth... it isn't. The lines between journalism and entertainment have been blurred.
    This leads us back to the dumbing effect. People don't understand politics... too complex and icky for many. But people understand sports. So, we pick a team, Republican or Democrat... get a Team Name, Conservatives or Liberals... get a Team color, Red or Blue... we even get a Team mascot, Elephant or Donkey. Americans understand this. Once we pick a team... the opposition is the enemy and we MUST WIN... regardless of anything else.

    **As a side note... if you go to a ball game at your local stadium before the All-Star Game... and the ushers pass out ballots so you can pick who you think should represent the All-Stars... how many ballots do you think pick every player on the home team? Even the catcher who is batting .175 or the outfielder who has been on the DL since June 1st. Granted, a lot of them are little kids, but, there are adults who do this, too.**

    This is why you see the real hatred in the words on this board... hear the hatred in the voices on talk radio... that hatred is not directed to the prick that is planning the next attack against America... it is directed towards fellow Americans!!! It's demonizing other Americans for having a differing opinion on a specific issue... the terms "Liberal" or "Conservative" are spoken with hate... like the terms, "Gook" or "Jap" or "Sand Nigger". They cease becoming human and more like things.
    This is how the political parties want it. Dumb votes count the same as smart votes and can cancel them out. Until american voters come to the understanding that we are all Americans and should drop the crap that is force fed us by political party strategists and pundits whose wages depends upon them choosing extreme sides... and cast our ballots based upon what WE believe is the best for our country... not for our Team... then, this moronic, childish division of America will continue.

    Great post. I see way too many people who are unable to open their minds altogether about anything, and I think that has a lot to do with what your post said. People are force-fed everthing they see, and they forget they have the power to think for themselves.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Jeanwah wrote:
    they forget they have the power to think for themselves.

    They forget because that's what we're teaching them. Thinking for yourself carries with it a measure of accountability and our society is at war with accountability.
  • ?ing my education
    ?ing my education Posts: 313
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's a tough, tough question. Personally, I refuse to vote against something by voting for something else. It's why I've always thought that US ballots should include a deduction vote or a "none of the above" option. As the system stands today, I abstain from most votes. For example, I did not vote for the senatorial race in the last election because neither candidate earned my vote, even though I disliked one of the candidates more than the other. Furthermore, I will almost never vote for a major party candidate.

    But in all honesty such actions accomplish little on their own. My only hope is that more people will vote as I do -- on principle alone. "Republican" and "democrat" are no longer indicitive of any system of principles, and anti-principle party line is how the vast majority of people vote. I could care less at this point what principles people choose when they vote. I just wish it would enter into their minds that a political figure is only defined by their principles.

    Thanks for your opinion farfromglorified. I agree with what you are saying. It is hard for me to bring myself to vote "just to vote".

    Thanks again.
    Driving in my car, smoking a cigar. The only time I'm happy is when I play my guitar.

    -from "n.s.u." by Cream
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    ?ing my education wrote:
    Thanks for your opinion farfromglorified. I agree with what you are saying. It is hard for me to bring myself to vote "just to vote".

    Thanks again.

    You're quite welcome. And thanks for asking some very valid questions and for bringing up a topic that is severely underrated in importance.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,361
    Ya know, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this country run from a businessman's point of view (make that a decent businessman, at least). I know people picked on Ross Perot, but he brought new light to the whole Rep/Dem war, with a pretty subjective opinion. Just a thought. I can't stand the lying politicians anymore.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Ya know, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this country run from a businessman's point of view (make that a decent businessman, at least). I know people picked on Ross Perot, but he brought new light to the whole Rep/Dem war, with a pretty subjective opinion. Just a thought. I can't stand the lying politicians anymore.

    I'd second that thought.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Actually, the people who vote for the parties "ruin everything".

    Good correction. That's why I do not vote.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Im glad I have more than two options....albeit only four major ones...but still better than two....and very very varying parties at that....
  • hailhailkc
    hailhailkc Posts: 582
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Im glad I have more than two options....albeit only four major ones...but still better than two....and very very varying parties at that....

    We have a multitude of options, it's just that we only have two major parties with all of the money and power.
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