fuck obama/hillary/rebulblicans
Comments
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RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:This is precisely why I often think about that we must kill to live.
Theoretically, we don't. Practically, we must. Regardless, you don't necessarily need to kill other people to live.Factor in the population curves internationally, and were in for some big shows and pretty soon.
Well, sure. We've also had some pretty big shows. They won't be anything new.Common ground must be attained via agreement or force.
You can't achieve "common ground" via force. You can get someone to do what want them to do, but you can't get them to think how you want them too.Therefore, in a nutshell, NWO is coming one way or the other is how I see it.
Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts. The last time the true order of the world changed was 10,000 years ago. Politicians, businessmen, and all the other "elite", as people will have it, aren't going to bring around a New World Order. They're simply going to bring about new schemes and technologies and organizations that will have various measures of positive or negative effects on the people who occupy this planet. "New World Order", however, is a bit of a stretch.Probably in a succession of many ongoing bright flashes of light noise and smoke, the size of the flashes I'm not sure of yet, as it no one probaby at this point.
You're definitely right on that one, unfortunately.0 -
I wondered when you'd show up.farfromglorified wrote:What?
Let me see if I understand this. You want people to be happy, right? You want people to be healthy, right? You want people to be economically secure, right? Are not all those things, selfish desires?
If altruism is your game, then what's wrong with the current world order? What's wrong with having your money given to some African dictator? What's wrong with having your time given to corporations? What's wrong with having your life used by others in whatever game that suits them? Nothing could be more altruistic than submitting yourself for use by others based not on your standards, but theirs'.
The selfish desires to own your life and your happiness are the only thing that stands between you and everything you despise. Forget that at your own demise.
Looking back that was an incorrect statement, but let me rephrase.
How can a system based on man's worst motives produces the most good?0 -
Commy wrote:I wondered when you'd show up.
Looking back that was an incorrect statement, but let me rephrase.
How can a system based on man's worst motives produces the most good?
Now we're definitely getting some where -- your question is an excellent one.
The answer is, of course, that it can't. The worst motives of men: greed, hate, bigotry and stupidity will not produce good. Unfortunately, ridding the world of those motivations is frankly impossible. All of them will exist where ever a human being exists. However, there is no reason that humans must contstruct palaces to and institutions defined by those motivations. A greedy, hatefilled, bigoted, stupid man will not have much power over the lives of others until those others grant him that power. That fact should give us hope. We don't need to rid the world of greed, hate, bigotry, or stupidity. Rather, we simply need to rid ourselves of those things and then refuse to support them in others.
The day that hate, bigotry, greed and stupidity become a product that few wish to buy will be one of the greatest days in human history. But to get there, all of us have to stop bargaining for them.0 -
Or refuse to operate a society driven by them. Most institutions we enter into growing up seem to be instilling that selfish trait...from day 1 in school we are competing against eachother, as opposed to working with eachother. So it seems to be that capitalism is building these traits..ie general strike, start over.farfromglorified wrote:Now we're definitely getting some where -- your question is an excellent one.
The answer is, of course, that it can't. The worst motives of men: greed, hate, bigotry and stupidity will not produce good. Unfortunately, ridding the world of those motivations is frankly impossible. All of them will exist where ever a human being exists. However, there is no reason that humans must contstruct palaces to and institutions defined by those motivations. A greedy, hatefilled, bigoted, stupid man will not have much power over the lives of others until those others grant him that power. That fact should give us hope. We don't need to rid the world of greed, hate, bigotry, or stupidity. Rather, we simply need to rid ourselves of those things and then refuse to support them in others.
The day that hate, bigotry, greed and stupidity become a product that few wish to buy will be one of the greatest days in human history. But to get there, all of us have to stop bargaining for them.0 -
farfromglorified wrote:Theoretically, we don't. Practically, we must. Regardless, you don't necessarily need to kill other people to live.
We don't need to, but, I'm beginning to see the population densities will bring this to a head.farfromglorified wrote:Well, sure. We've also had some pretty big shows. They won't be anything new.
You can't achieve "common ground" via force. You can get someone to do what want them to do, but you can't get them to think how you want them too.
I think past a certain point force definitely conquers, you just have to kill a lot of people to get it.farfromglorified wrote:Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts. The last time the true order of the world changed was 10,000 years ago. Politicians, businessmen, and all the other "elite", as people will have it, aren't going to bring around a New World Order. They're simply going to bring about new schemes and technologies and organizations that will have various measures of positive or negative effects on the people who occupy this planet. "New World Order", however, is a bit of a stretch.
It's exactly conspiracy when it comes straight from the mouth of the former president in no uncertain terms. I think the term conspiracy "nut" is a huge misconception in and of itself. There's been plenty of conspiracy throughout time. Tons of it. The goal is centralized control, it's no mystery thats what those in power desire the most....more power and easier forms of societal control. It makes their lives much easier. Exactly what anyone would want if they were responsible for playing god to a nation. It's human nature. Same as parents desire mor control over their kids. Conspiracy?...not exactly. Actually not at all imo.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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farfromglorified wrote:Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts.
I know it's fun to call the NWO a conspiracy, but it just isn't true, I have been reading many books by different writers over the last year or two that cover the last 10 - 15 years of our history and they all seem to tie in together.
The things that bush and his cronies and the useless governments before them both in the US and the UK have been carrying out were on the cards long ago.
Voting will not affect change for the person in the street, it now really only benefits the rich, in other words the people who own the corporates. The majority of people don't see this and still think things are how the media tells them it is.Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.0 -
Commy wrote:Or refuse to operate a society driven by them.
Absolutely.Most institutions we enter into growing up seem to be instilling that selfish trait...from day 1 in school we are competing against eachother, as opposed to working with eachother. So it seems to be that capitalism is building these traits..ie general strike, start over.
Capitalism is the only thing that gives you a right to a general strike, as opposed to the altruistic institutions that demand your labor as a property of others.0 -
spiral out wrote:I know it's fun to call the NWO a conspiracy, but it just isn't true, I have been reading many books by different writers over the last year or two that cover the last 10 - 15 years of our history and they all seem to tie in together.
The things that bush and his cronies and the useless governments before them both in the US and the UK have been carrying out were on the cards long ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razorVoting will not affect change for the person in the street, it now really only benefits the rich, in other words the people who own the corporates.
This is easy to say, but isn't really true. The poor have been forcing benefits out of the rich to a similar extent that the rich have been forcing benefits from the poor. Everybody is selling out to the institutions of force. It's not a problem of the poor or the rich.The majority of people don't see this and still think things are how the media tells them it is.
The majority of people simply don't care.0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:We don't need to, but, I'm beginning to see the population densities will bring this to a head.
In some places, sure.I think past a certain point force definitely conquers, you just have to kill a lot of people to get it.
Force destroys and negates. If what you want is a negative, force is certainly a great way to "get it".It's exactly conspiracy when it comes straight from the mouth of the former president in no uncertain terms. I think the term conspiracy "nut" is a huge misconception in and of itself. There's been plenty of conspiracy throughout time. Tons of it. The goal is centralized control, it's no mystery thats what those in power desire the most....more power and easier forms of societal control. It makes their lives much easier. Exactly what anyone would want if they were responsible for playing god to a nation. It's human nature. Same as parents desire mor control over their kids. Conspiracy?...not exactly. Actually not at all imo.
For every grand conspiracy in history there have been a million conspiracy theories. Certainly many seek and abuse power. But to believe this world is controlled by a select few is to completely ignore their nearly constant failures to achieve their ends.0 -
farfromglorified wrote:farfromglorified wrote:This is easy to say, but isn't really true. The poor have been forcing benefits out of the rich to a similar extent that the rich have been forcing benefits from the poor. Everybody is selling out to the institutions of force. It's not a problem of the poor or the rich.
Hmm and you see this as equal and fare? Not sure what your point is.farfromglorified wrote:The majority of people simply don't care.
And i am of the opinion that the majority of people are plain stupid.Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.0 -
farfromglorified wrote:
Come now greed is not stupidity.Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.0 -
spiral out wrote:Hmm and you see this as equal and fare? Not sure what your point is.
No, I don't see it as equal and fair. I see it as violent, stupid and misguided.
My point was that most conspiracy theories that do not revolve around governments revolve around the either economic or racial minorities, particularly the rich in terms of the former. Many people seem to think that the rich get together in a back room somewhere and plot out the future of the world, yet most of them can't even hold onto their own fortunes or at least avoid serious losses over their lifetime. This is not to suggest that the wealthy do not have significant power or that they do not often times use their positions for political or social influence, but the assumptions of most people regarding the extent of that power and the extent of that influence are often hilarious.0 -
spiral out wrote:Come now greed is not stupidity.
Greed and stupidity are certainly not the same thing. However, people often confuse stupidity with massive conspiracies (often times believed to be motivated by greed).0 -
Commy wrote:Hence the revolution idea. general strike, mass protest. WE hve the means to fight this structure of power
to what end? what are you working toward? who are you mentoring/training/inspiring? what change are you making?We're still making records for people who listen to it all the way through, eyes closed, in that space.0 -
farfromglorified wrote:
For every grand conspiracy in history there have been a million conspiracy theories. Certainly many seek and abuse power. But to believe this world is controlled by a select few is to completely ignore their nearly constant failures to achieve their ends.
It's no secret that some nationalities only spend money within their ethnic circle (or give preference to). This means hiring only certain contractors donating only to certain causes and certain ethnic members, etc etc... I have no problem with that concept and more power to them, if they are ok with it. I like to keep my money in my country an buy and support locally made products, services, food etc to put money back into the community.
That same thing happens at the elite level. Certain circles swirl together, in the sense royalty marries greatly from within. Certain communities are more ethnic, the existence of gay districts. It's herd mentality. It's just how it is imo. The people effecting policies think of themselves first, and when push comes to shove, the screws will clamp down to maintain the inner circle to maintain control.
The biger the task, the more control is needed. Hello patriot act. That thing is never going away. Spying is here to stay. No conspiracy there at all.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I get a little confused over how randoms things are just thrown out in this thread.
Roland has stated NWO is going to happen. If so, why fight it? You've stated it's going to occur, what do you hope to achieve by fighting it?
Someone else stated the the majority of Europeans feel the US is the biggest threat to world peace. Was this before or after it was decided that all but 2% of the world are sheep and have their head buried in the sand? Does it matter what a group of people think if what they think does not mirror reality?“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley0 -
surferdude wrote:I get a little confused over how randoms things are just thrown out in this thread.
Roland has stated NWO is going to happen. If so, why fight it? You've stated it's going to occur, what do you hope to achieve by fighting it?
It's the most natural course of events. It forces the corrupt to develop glimpses of conscience, and allows for a more natural progression into tyranny or "societal development"
Power shifts have gone back and forth throughout time. It's all about balance.
But seriously, Nazi Germany was a perfect example of why society has the duty to oppose and question authority.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Social progress. THe working class have built this country, we should have control of it.Joanne wrote:to what end? what are you working toward? who are you mentoring/training/inspiring? what change are you making?
In order for social progress to occur, it seems that it requires massive puplic protests-strikes and so on-and that's almost always true. In order for the people to be organized though they need to be informed. THis may take hundreds of years, as the racial struggle in the 70's had brewed for hundreds of years, until enough minorities were informed, which allowed people like Martin Luthar King jr and Malcom X to rise up. It isn't the leaders that push for change, its the people. And it was the same with women's sufrage movement. At first they didn't even know how to discuss it, they simply called it "the problem". But word spread until enough were informed for them to get organized-and that is the ace in the hole.
The people always have the power. We can shut down any society at anytime-but with that also comes the responsibilty for our leaders actions. We allowed Bush to invade Iraq, we allowed Guantanimo to be built, and on.
Howard Zinn's saying, "You can't be neutral on a moving train" stems from this. We have the power, and so if we sit back and do nothing we are letting our leaders do what they want, with our consent. If we rise up en masse, as we should be doing more often, it forces teh leaders to listen. If we don't work, they don't have a country to run.
As for the gains we should be striving for I think the battle for workers rights needs to be fought again. I think we need to take back control of our military. I think we need to separate corporation and state. I think we need to stress education, accurate education. I think we need to take our media back. I think we need to take our democracy back. I think we need to train police to be public servants, as they were meant to be, instead of public bullies. I think we need to take control of how our taxes our spent-the list goes on.0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
But seriously, Nazi Germany was a perfect example of why society has the duty to oppose and question authority.
Bush administration is a perfect example....and yea dems aren't much better.....and think sometimes they just laugh at how easy it is.....know Karl's laughing his ass off...still.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
Commy wrote:How could it not be corrupt? by its very nature it is flawed. ANy system based on selfishness is.
That's very true. It's not a perfect system but it's better than every other economic system that's been tried in history. The problem with the left is they aim for impossible Utopian perfection and end up screwing everyone over (except the political elite of course). Free-markets can be ugly and can make things hard for some people but guess what? That's life. The greatest good for the greatest amount should be the aim of any economic system and that's something that socialism has never, ever been able to provide with any reasonable consistency.So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul0
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