fuck obama/hillary/rebulblicans

CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
edited January 2008 in A Moving Train
The world is controlled by economic institutions. And people think the United States is run by the president. The fact is, the WTO and the WB are our worst enemies, in charge of it all.

The wto gives a loan to a poor country. Sounds good on paper. Before that country can accept that loan they need to make certain "structural adjustments". Export, export, expor. In the words of the WTO, lowest common denominator. So Haiti exports grain to the US, recieving ht elowest possible pqyment for their primary product, while their people starve. Colombia sees coffee prices drop exponentially (forcing many of them to turn to coca-cocaine-production) to make ends meet. Meanwhile the US is getting all of these resources at bottom dollar while countries producing these products starve. THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

The WTO grants a loan to some dictator in AFrica-he gets 2 billion, buys a house, 50 bmw's, and his people are left with the debt. Responsible countries, of which there are few, say no, and are ostracized by the international community, Venezuela for example.


The new world order is economic control. Last I checked 63 (over 150 now that i checked agaiin) countries had to make structural adjustments for the WTO-lower minimum wage, no workers rights, no health care, no unions. In ountries actually trying to dig themselves out of holes, this may be a good thing - I dont see how bu t maybe. In mos tcases, a dictator takes teh funds for himslef and lets his people suffer the repayment.

THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER>
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    You have to start somewhere if anything is going to change... cant start at the top
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    You have to start somewhere if anything is going to change... cant start at the top
    The people have the power, ultimately, we decide who's in charge.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Technically the world is run by economics. Thats how you run it. With economics. You work and trade to survive.
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    Commy wrote:
    The people have the power, ultimately, we decide who's in charge.

    While that is true the leaders of the WTO and WB are appointed not elected...
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    Technically the world is run by economics. Thats how you run it. With economics. You work and trade to survive.

    That's all well and good when the system isn't corrupt.
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    That's all well and good when the system isn't corrupt.
    People will always kiss each others ass to get ahead. I agree though. It may not be right.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    That's all well and good when the system isn't corrupt.
    How could it not be corrupt? by its very nature it is flawed. ANy system based on selfishness is.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    While that is true the leaders of the WTO and WB are appointed not elected...
    Hence the revolution idea. general strike, mass protest. WE hve the means to fight this structure of power
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Commy wrote:
    Hence the revolution idea. general strike, mass protest. WE hve the means to fight this structure of power
    Yeah, but by "WE" you mean about 2% of the population that see eye to eye with you... in your and maybe even my eyes the system may seem wrong, but to most it seems perfectly right.. keep fighting.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Commy wrote:
    Hence the revolution idea. general strike, mass protest. WE hve the means to fight this structure of power
    Yeah, but by "WE" you mean about 2% of the population that see eye to eye with you... in your and maybe even my eyes the system may seem wrong, but to most it seems perfectly right.. keep fighting.

    I still having nothing against Obama. In my eyes he's just playing the game to get elected... Hillary Clinton needs to be stopped.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Yeah, but by "WE" you mean about 2% of the population that see eye to eye with you... in your and maybe even my eyes the system may seem wrong, but to most it seems perfectly right.. keep fighting.
    I disagree. A gallop international poll found that the majority of europeans thought the US was the biggest threat to world peace. The world view is probably more dramatic. Most people don't want war--I think 99% is accurate. Most people don't approve of murder, Most PEOPLE WANT PEACE.

    It's the elite we need to keep in line.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Commy wrote:
    I disagree. A gallop international poll found that the majority of europeans thought the US was the biggest threat to world peace. The world view is probably more dramatic. Most people don't want war--I think 99% is accurate. Most people don't approve of murder, Most PEOPLE WANT PEACE.

    It's the elite we need to keep in line.
    So why aren't those 99% people out voting for Ron Paul or Kucinich in the primaries?

    People don't approve of murder, unless they are scared for their own lives, which is where we are at for the most part. Sheep running scared... and most people are fat and happy where they are. Why would they want change?
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    So why aren't those 99% people out voting for Ron Paul or Kucinich in the primaries?

    People don't approve of murder, unless they are scared for their own lives, which is where we are at for the most part. Sheep running scared... and most people are fat and happy where they are. Why would they want change?


    If people were scared for their own lives they would ban automobiles, which kill more than terrorists ever have. Or tobacco for that matter.


    The United States has the most advanced propaganda machine ever developed. taken from the Nazi's and adapted. Americans are taught to fear and want. Fear what their gov't tells them to fear and want what the tv tells them to want. To fear and covet is to be an american.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    I think there are two problems...apathy...almost everyone I know is totally disillusioned by politics...and like was posted above, don't know or care about the issues concerning globalization. Everyone feels powerless. Everyone that feels that way needs to watch this documentary this forum borrows it's name from. If you disagree with Zinn's politics, ignore the slant and pay attention to the message.

    Second - the fact that the disaffected need a leader. I think there are a lot of people waiting around for someone to do something....unfortunate, but I think it's true... Maybe he will be the "told ya so" guy one day....but a little old OB/GYN talking about economics isn't going to cut it as a revolutionary leader of the masses.

    I think if the economy begins to fail and discontent grows, there will be more of an appetite for REAL change.... But I think the entire US middle class would have to be in dire straits for that to happen.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh3I2h6PBo
  • my only question is how do i get in on this New World Order i keep hearing so much about? I am a firm believer in a ruling class, especially since i rule.
  • MrSmith wrote:
    my only question is how do i get in on this New World Order i keep hearing so much about? I am a firm believer in a ruling class, especially since i rule.

    It's incredibly easy. Sit back and do nothing, and it will come to you ;)
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    this is what i've been trying to get across in various instances ... economic indicators are just tools of fabrication and propaganda ... tools to exploit in order for the elite to continue to amass more wealth ...
  • Commy wrote:
    How could it not be corrupt? by its very nature it is flawed. ANy system based on selfishness is.

    What?

    Let me see if I understand this. You want people to be happy, right? You want people to be healthy, right? You want people to be economically secure, right? Are not all those things, selfish desires?

    If altruism is your game, then what's wrong with the current world order? What's wrong with having your money given to some African dictator? What's wrong with having your time given to corporations? What's wrong with having your life used by others in whatever game that suits them? Nothing could be more altruistic than submitting yourself for use by others based not on your standards, but theirs'.

    The selfish desires to own your life and your happiness are the only thing that stands between you and everything you despise. Forget that at your own demise.
  • Commy wrote:
    Most people don't approve of murder, Most PEOPLE WANT PEACE.

    Hehe...there's your answer. Most people don't want to be murdered. Most people don't want to suffer from war. That's very different than not approving of murder or wanting peace.

    See, even you:
    Commy wrote:
    It's the elite we need to keep in line.
  • What?

    Let me see if I understand this. You want people to be happy, right? You want people to be healthy, right? You want people to be economically secure, right? Are not all those things, selfish desires?

    If altruism is your game, then what's wrong with the current world order? What's wrong with having your money given to some African dictator? What's wrong with having your time given to corporations? What's wrong with having your life used by others in whatever game that suits them? Nothing could be more altruistic than submitting yourself for use by others based not on your standards, but theirs'.

    The selfish desires to own your life and your happiness are the only thing that stands between you and everything you despise. Forget that at your own demise.

    This is precisely why I often think about that we must kill to live.

    Factor in the population curves internationally, and were in for some big shows and pretty soon. Common ground must be attained via agreement or force.

    Therefore, in a nutshell, NWO is coming one way or the other is how I see it.

    Probably in a succession of many ongoing bright flashes of light noise and smoke, the size of the flashes I'm not sure of yet, as it no one probaby at this point.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • This is precisely why I often think about that we must kill to live.

    Theoretically, we don't. Practically, we must. Regardless, you don't necessarily need to kill other people to live.
    Factor in the population curves internationally, and were in for some big shows and pretty soon.

    Well, sure. We've also had some pretty big shows. They won't be anything new.
    Common ground must be attained via agreement or force.

    You can't achieve "common ground" via force. You can get someone to do what want them to do, but you can't get them to think how you want them too.
    Therefore, in a nutshell, NWO is coming one way or the other is how I see it.

    Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts. The last time the true order of the world changed was 10,000 years ago. Politicians, businessmen, and all the other "elite", as people will have it, aren't going to bring around a New World Order. They're simply going to bring about new schemes and technologies and organizations that will have various measures of positive or negative effects on the people who occupy this planet. "New World Order", however, is a bit of a stretch.
    Probably in a succession of many ongoing bright flashes of light noise and smoke, the size of the flashes I'm not sure of yet, as it no one probaby at this point.

    You're definitely right on that one, unfortunately.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    What?

    Let me see if I understand this. You want people to be happy, right? You want people to be healthy, right? You want people to be economically secure, right? Are not all those things, selfish desires?

    If altruism is your game, then what's wrong with the current world order? What's wrong with having your money given to some African dictator? What's wrong with having your time given to corporations? What's wrong with having your life used by others in whatever game that suits them? Nothing could be more altruistic than submitting yourself for use by others based not on your standards, but theirs'.

    The selfish desires to own your life and your happiness are the only thing that stands between you and everything you despise. Forget that at your own demise.
    I wondered when you'd show up.

    Looking back that was an incorrect statement, but let me rephrase.

    How can a system based on man's worst motives produces the most good?
  • Commy wrote:
    I wondered when you'd show up.

    Looking back that was an incorrect statement, but let me rephrase.

    How can a system based on man's worst motives produces the most good?

    Now we're definitely getting some where -- your question is an excellent one.

    The answer is, of course, that it can't. The worst motives of men: greed, hate, bigotry and stupidity will not produce good. Unfortunately, ridding the world of those motivations is frankly impossible. All of them will exist where ever a human being exists. However, there is no reason that humans must contstruct palaces to and institutions defined by those motivations. A greedy, hatefilled, bigoted, stupid man will not have much power over the lives of others until those others grant him that power. That fact should give us hope. We don't need to rid the world of greed, hate, bigotry, or stupidity. Rather, we simply need to rid ourselves of those things and then refuse to support them in others.

    The day that hate, bigotry, greed and stupidity become a product that few wish to buy will be one of the greatest days in human history. But to get there, all of us have to stop bargaining for them.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Now we're definitely getting some where -- your question is an excellent one.

    The answer is, of course, that it can't. The worst motives of men: greed, hate, bigotry and stupidity will not produce good. Unfortunately, ridding the world of those motivations is frankly impossible. All of them will exist where ever a human being exists. However, there is no reason that humans must contstruct palaces to and institutions defined by those motivations. A greedy, hatefilled, bigoted, stupid man will not have much power over the lives of others until those others grant him that power. That fact should give us hope. We don't need to rid the world of greed, hate, bigotry, or stupidity. Rather, we simply need to rid ourselves of those things and then refuse to support them in others.

    The day that hate, bigotry, greed and stupidity become a product that few wish to buy will be one of the greatest days in human history. But to get there, all of us have to stop bargaining for them.
    Or refuse to operate a society driven by them. Most institutions we enter into growing up seem to be instilling that selfish trait...from day 1 in school we are competing against eachother, as opposed to working with eachother. So it seems to be that capitalism is building these traits..ie general strike, start over.
  • Theoretically, we don't. Practically, we must. Regardless, you don't necessarily need to kill other people to live.

    We don't need to, but, I'm beginning to see the population densities will bring this to a head.
    Well, sure. We've also had some pretty big shows. They won't be anything new.

    You can't achieve "common ground" via force. You can get someone to do what want them to do, but you can't get them to think how you want them too.

    I think past a certain point force definitely conquers, you just have to kill a lot of people to get it.
    Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts. The last time the true order of the world changed was 10,000 years ago. Politicians, businessmen, and all the other "elite", as people will have it, aren't going to bring around a New World Order. They're simply going to bring about new schemes and technologies and organizations that will have various measures of positive or negative effects on the people who occupy this planet. "New World Order", however, is a bit of a stretch.

    It's exactly conspiracy when it comes straight from the mouth of the former president in no uncertain terms. I think the term conspiracy "nut" is a huge misconception in and of itself. There's been plenty of conspiracy throughout time. Tons of it. The goal is centralized control, it's no mystery thats what those in power desire the most....more power and easier forms of societal control. It makes their lives much easier. Exactly what anyone would want if they were responsible for playing god to a nation. It's human nature. Same as parents desire mor control over their kids. Conspiracy?...not exactly. Actually not at all imo.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Change is coming, just like it always does. "NWO" is simply a meaningless term best left to conspiracy nuts.

    I know it's fun to call the NWO a conspiracy, but it just isn't true, I have been reading many books by different writers over the last year or two that cover the last 10 - 15 years of our history and they all seem to tie in together.

    The things that bush and his cronies and the useless governments before them both in the US and the UK have been carrying out were on the cards long ago.

    Voting will not affect change for the person in the street, it now really only benefits the rich, in other words the people who own the corporates. The majority of people don't see this and still think things are how the media tells them it is.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Commy wrote:
    Or refuse to operate a society driven by them.

    Absolutely.
    Most institutions we enter into growing up seem to be instilling that selfish trait...from day 1 in school we are competing against eachother, as opposed to working with eachother. So it seems to be that capitalism is building these traits..ie general strike, start over.

    Capitalism is the only thing that gives you a right to a general strike, as opposed to the altruistic institutions that demand your labor as a property of others.
  • spiral out wrote:
    I know it's fun to call the NWO a conspiracy, but it just isn't true, I have been reading many books by different writers over the last year or two that cover the last 10 - 15 years of our history and they all seem to tie in together.

    The things that bush and his cronies and the useless governments before them both in the US and the UK have been carrying out were on the cards long ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor
    Voting will not affect change for the person in the street, it now really only benefits the rich, in other words the people who own the corporates.

    This is easy to say, but isn't really true. The poor have been forcing benefits out of the rich to a similar extent that the rich have been forcing benefits from the poor. Everybody is selling out to the institutions of force. It's not a problem of the poor or the rich.
    The majority of people don't see this and still think things are how the media tells them it is.

    The majority of people simply don't care.
  • We don't need to, but, I'm beginning to see the population densities will bring this to a head.

    In some places, sure.
    I think past a certain point force definitely conquers, you just have to kill a lot of people to get it.

    Force destroys and negates. If what you want is a negative, force is certainly a great way to "get it".
    It's exactly conspiracy when it comes straight from the mouth of the former president in no uncertain terms. I think the term conspiracy "nut" is a huge misconception in and of itself. There's been plenty of conspiracy throughout time. Tons of it. The goal is centralized control, it's no mystery thats what those in power desire the most....more power and easier forms of societal control. It makes their lives much easier. Exactly what anyone would want if they were responsible for playing god to a nation. It's human nature. Same as parents desire mor control over their kids. Conspiracy?...not exactly. Actually not at all imo.

    For every grand conspiracy in history there have been a million conspiracy theories. Certainly many seek and abuse power. But to believe this world is controlled by a select few is to completely ignore their nearly constant failures to achieve their ends.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052

    This is easy to say, but isn't really true. The poor have been forcing benefits out of the rich to a similar extent that the rich have been forcing benefits from the poor. Everybody is selling out to the institutions of force. It's not a problem of the poor or the rich.

    Hmm and you see this as equal and fare? Not sure what your point is.

    The majority of people simply don't care.

    And i am of the opinion that the majority of people are plain stupid.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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