"The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot

2

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I received "The Astonishing Hypothesis: Scientific Search for the Soul" by Francis Crick today. But I'm not done this other one. I'm a slow reader :(

    My Catholic Philosopher friend wants me to read another book after, I can't remember what it's called, but he says it will challenge my beliefs, so I'm guessing it's from his perspective, I said I would, I've no quams with reading an opposing viewpoint, but doubt he will read anything I suggest.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well the Shamans aren't walking through walls, are they? If it was possible and these Shamans had acheived it, we would all know beyond a doubt, it'd be recorded on video and broadcast around the world, scientists would be studying the phenomena. No. What happens is they take psychoactive drugs or meditate to put themselves into a psychoactive mental state. They may feel like they are transcending reality, but in reality they are convulsing on the floor, and when they die from over-dose, what do you call that? Becoming one with the universe? No wonder so many people kill themselves to acheive spiritual oneness with the universe. Hey, next time a comet flies by let's suicide and we will all become God.

    So you believe that we are merely physical entities and nothing else besides?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What happens is they take psychoactive drugs or meditate to put themselves into a psychoactive mental state. They may feel like they are transcending reality, but in reality they are convulsing on the floor

    You sound pretty confident for someone who has never had a shamanic/mystical experience.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You sound pretty confident for someone who has never had a shamanic/mystical experience.

    I've taken drugs before.

    Salvia Divinorium is one version of sage plant used by Shamans. It could be legally purchased at High Times in Canada. It causes a psychoactive hallucination, and convulsion, very possibly leading to death in some cases. The experiences it induces will make the greatest skeptics believe they experienced an alternate reality, while in this reality they are overdosing and dying. The full effects of the drug aren't known, but it's my guess that it activates a part of the brain responsible for belief.

    It's not that I've never looked into these theories, it's just that the alternate possibilities, the not so fantastic possibilities are actually quite tragic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I've taken drugs before.

    Salvia Divinorium is one version of sage plant used by Shamans. It could be legally purchased at High Times in Canada. It causes a psychoactive hallucination, and convulsion, very possibly leading to death in some cases. The experiences it induces will make the greatest skeptics believe they experienced an alternate reality, while in this reality they are overdosing and dying. The full effects of the drug aren't known, but it's my guess that it activates a part of the brain responsible for belief.

    It's not that I've never looked into these theories, it's just that the alternate possibilities, the not so fantastic possibilities are actually quite tragic.

    You should check this out: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Open-Head-Daniel-Pinchbeck/dp/0007149611/ref=sr_1_8/203-0570104-2124748?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176430528&sr=1-8

    And whilst your at it...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dance-Four-Winds-Secrets-Medicine/dp/0892815140/ref=sr_1_57/203-0570104-2124748?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176430722&sr=1-57

    And...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Journey-Ixtlan-Lessons-Juan-Arkana/dp/0140192344/ref=sr_1_10/203-0570104-2124748?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176430834&sr=1-10
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I've taken drugs before.

    Salvia Divinorium is one version of sage plant used by Shamans. It could be legally purchased at High Times in Canada. It causes a psychoactive hallucination, and convulsion, very possibly leading to death in some cases. The experiences it induces will make the greatest skeptics believe they experienced an alternate reality, while in this reality they are overdosing and dying. The full effects of the drug aren't known, but it's my guess that it activates a part of the brain responsible for belief.

    It's not that I've never looked into these theories, it's just that the alternate possibilities, the not so fantastic possibilities are actually quite tragic.

    Not all shamans use drugs to achieve heightened states of consciousness. Some use drumming. Others use dancing. Others still use meditation.
  • hodge
    hodge Posts: 519
    hey ahnimus if you could provide some sources where a psychoactive drug has caused someone to "overdose" and die directly from it, i'd love to read it
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Not all shamans use drugs to achieve heightened states of consciousness. Some use drumming. Others use dancing. Others still use meditation.

    I understand that. I'm really not interested in convincing myself that life is a dream. I don't want to be an empty shell laying on the floor while thinking I'm in some other reality. I'm quite content with this reality. I've also no reason to believe that I am beyond this reality.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hodge
    hodge Posts: 519
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You should check this out: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Open-Head-Daniel-Pinchbeck/dp/0007149611/ref=sr_1_8/203-0570104-2124748?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176430528&sr=1-8
    great book, have you read 2012: the return of quetzalcoatl? or any terence mckenna?
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hodge wrote:
    hey ahnimus if you could provide some sources where a psychoactive drug has caused someone to "overdose" and die directly from it, i'd love to read it

    http://www.drug-overdose.com/
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    By the way I used to hang out with heavy psychoactive drug users and I've actually seen people overdose and convulse. What did their friends say "She's having a good time"

    I had a friend Steve, said he'd kick my ass if I ever got into those drugs. Said all of his friends were either dead or in jail from drug use. Steve was also a heroin, crack, cocaine, PCP, etc... addict.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hodge
    hodge Posts: 519
    by psychoactive i was sorta referring to LSD, Shrooms, salvia, the ones used for mystic states

    hey, i don't see any on that list, go figure
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    hodge wrote:
    great book, have you read 2012: the return of quetzalcoatl? or any terence mckenna?

    Not yet, although I have a copy. I haven't read any Terrence McKenna.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    By the way I used to hang out with heavy psychoactive drug users and I've actually seen people overdose and convulse. What did their friends say "She's having a good time"

    I had a friend Steve, said he'd kick my ass if I ever got into those drugs. Said all of his friends were either dead or in jail from drug use. Steve was also a heroin, crack, cocaine, PCP, etc... addict.

    Obviously there's a negative side to any drug use, if not taken with caution. Daniel Pinchbeck's book confronts this aspect.
    This isn't the whole picture though.
  • hodge
    hodge Posts: 519
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well the Shamans aren't walking through walls, are they? If it was possible and these Shamans had acheived it, we would all know beyond a doubt, it'd be recorded on video and broadcast around the world, scientists would be studying the phenomena. No. What happens is they take psychoactive drugs or meditate to put themselves into a psychoactive mental state. They may feel like they are transcending reality, but in reality they are convulsing on the floor, and when they die from over-dose, what do you call that? Becoming one with the universe? No wonder so many people kill themselves to acheive spiritual oneness with the universe. Hey, next time a comet flies by let's suicide and we will all become God.

    it is hard to study a phenomena when our science doesn't have the abilitiy to measure it yet

    not to mention that society is a little slow at figuring things out. i mean some people actually think hallucinogenic drugs kill people. these substances have been used safely and therapeutically for many years and the research is already out there, society just hasn't caught on yet. shamanism has been used for healing people for ages, i'll find you some documentaries if you'd like

    Let's not overlook the fact that our own brain produces DMT which is one of the most powerful psychedellics on the planet produced by our pineal gland. this pineal gland (labeled the seat of the soul by Descartes) is also formed 49 days after conception which is precisely when it is determined whether the baby will be male or female. Now isn't that fascinating? Also, I believe it is of Buddhist (people that actually spend their days meditating and focusing on the mind as opposed to our dumbed-down tv watching society) belief that it takes 49 days to reincarnate; a cool little coincidence. Maybe there's a purpose for these substances...
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hodge wrote:
    it is hard to study a phenomena when our science doesn't have the abilitiy to measure it yet

    not to mention that society is a little slow at figuring things out. i mean some people actually think hallucinogenic drugs kill people. these substances have been used safely and therapeutically for many years and the research is already out there, society just hasn't caught on yet. shamanism has been used for healing people for ages, i'll find you some documentaries if you'd like

    Let's not overlook the fact that our own brain produces DMT which is one of the most powerful psychedellics on the planet produced by our pineal gland. this pineal gland (labeled the seat of the soul by Descartes) is also formed 49 days after conception which is precisely when it is determined whether the baby will be male or female. Now isn't that fascinating? Also, I believe it is of Buddhist (people that actually spend their days meditating and focusing on the mind as opposed to our dumbed-down tv watching society) belief that it takes 49 days to reincarnate; a cool little coincidence. Maybe there's a purpose for these substances...

    All that stuff also leads to insanity. Psychosis can be an early warning sign for schizophrenia. By taking Psychoactive drugs, your deliberately inducing a psychotic episode. I've taken drugs and I know what the experiences are like, and honestly, nothing special about them, it's just fucking with your mind.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hodge wrote:
    by psychoactive i was sorta referring to LSD, Shrooms, salvia, the ones used for mystic states

    hey, i don't see any on that list, go figure

    Shrooms have an interesting effect. I felt like my sensory input was more distinct, but that's about it. Perhaps I don't have these extremely mystical out-of-this-world experiences because I'm in touch with reality and I don't particularly want to escape it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I've taken drugs and I know what the experiences are like, and honestly, nothing special about them, it's just fucking with your mind.

    Depends on the individual, and his/her approach and reasons for taking the drug, or drugs. Tribal peoples don't take hallucinogenic drugs in order to fuck with their minds. They have been taking them since pre-history for practical and spiritual reasons. The ancient Egyptians, Aztecs, Toltecs, Mayans, Celts, Native Americans, aborigines, Siberian shamans, e.t.c, e.t.c, also spent hundreds, and thousands of years living with, and applying these shamanic experiences to their everyday lives, for medicinal use, spiritual and intellectual guidance, and for communicating with the natural environment around them. Again, drugs aren't always used. These heightened states of consciousness can be accessed in other ways too.
    Many people in the modern world take psychedelics merely to 'get out of their heads', and to 'fuck with their minds'. This doesn't mean that that is all their is to it.
    Read Daniel Pinchbeck's book. He covers all the angles, and ties these questions up with a comprehensive knowledge of philosophy and literature to boot.
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well the Shamans aren't walking through walls, are they? If it was possible and these Shamans had acheived it, we would all know beyond a doubt, it'd be recorded on video and broadcast around the world, scientists would be studying the phenomena.
    So you assume.

    Anyway, if you go by OBE records (Out of Body Experiences), we can all walk through walls once we get out of our body. ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    So you assume.

    Anyway, if you go by OBE records (Out of Body Experiences), we can all walk through walls once we get out of our body. ;)

    Peace
    Dan

    Again that is experiential.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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