Trickle Down Economics have failed us miserablely over and over again.
The very rich in this country do not let their money trickle down...The wealth get's clogged at the top and it stays there.
Oh come on!! Do you really see the rich living out in the woods somewhere in a tar paper shack with their money buried in the backyard??? Nope. They spend it.
Do people really believe this crap?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It sounds good in theory. And It's fair in principle
But it can't work because our income and assets are not on an equal plain with the very wealthy in this Country. We'd in turn get royally screwed if that was the case.
Especially because of all the Tax breaks that are currently in place for the Wealthy. Things like captial gains, and various loopholes that the rich utilize to avoid paying taxes on 90% of their actual income; Loopholes that aren't availible for Middle Class America.
We'd get screwed because the Wealthy would continue to pay 0 taxes while the rest of us end up paying out the ass.
Another overlooked fact is The very rich in this country don't pay into things like Medicare, or Social Securty unlike 95% of the American People. It just makes it all the more vile when Republican President's like Bush Sr. Reagan, and George W all tap into and Borrow from Social Security and suck it dry.
We forget that things like Social Security used to work very well before Greedy Politicians "On both Sides of The Floor" decided to tap into it and bleed it dry.
It's an absurd notion to think that keeping the very rich "Very Rich" is somehow magically going trickledown and improve the standard of living for all of us.
This neither stimulates the economy or creates jobs.
It's a myth. And It's a tax system that just doesn't work.
You've really somehow convinced yourself that the wealthy are really only paying taxes on 10% of their income???!!! WOW!
And with a sales tax you think the wealthy would pay $0. The only way they could do that would be to not purchase anything.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
1. all you have to do is have a job and you get money back, you dont ever of had to pay taxes to get a refund
Will you please explain this a little further? Are you referring to people who work but don't make enough money to owe taxes? If so, I don't understand the problem.
For instance, I've had a job for most of my life. Income tax has been deducted from every paycheck, no matter how little money I made. Let's say that Uncle Sam deducted $5000 of the money I earned this year for income tax. At the end of the year, I do my taxes and find that I owed $3000 in income tax for the year. Since I paid more than I owed, I get a refund of $2000. (These are just totally random amounts, of course.)
Now, when I made minimum wage, let's say Uncle Sam deducted $3000 of the money I earned that year for income tax. At the end of the year, I did my taxes and found that I didn't make enough money to owe any income tax. Since I paid more than I owed (paid $3000; owed $0), I got a refund of $3000.
Is that $3000 the refund you're talking about that I got even though I didn't pay taxes? If so, that's MY money, so the government is not giving me a handout or redistributing someone else's wealth to me even though I didn't earn it.
But it's entirely possible that this isn't what you're talking about at all. Please explain...
What you're failing to realize is that The typical "rich" person qualifies for more credits rebates and exceptions than middle class tax payers.
This is because they recieve mostly unearned income". This is basically any income that you don't have to work for: interest, capital gains, dividends, rent paid on real estate, etc. They don't do anything for the interest their savings account earns. They basically get money just for having the money sitting there, hence it is "unearned" and This is where the very rich get a break in their taxes and with the right accountan pay less taxes then their lowest paid employee.
[obiwan]everything is allright, there is no widening income gap. The economic policies are not responsible for ever growing number of poor households in the general population[/obiwan]
Will you please explain this a little further? Are you referring to people who work but don't make enough money to owe taxes? If so, I don't understand the problem.
For instance, I've had a job for most of my life. Income tax has been deducted from every paycheck, no matter how little money I made. Let's say that Uncle Sam deducted $5000 of the money I earned this year for income tax. At the end of the year, I do my taxes and find that I owed $3000 in income tax for the year. Since I paid more than I owed, I get a refund of $2000. (These are just totally random amounts, of course.)
Now, when I made minimum wage, let's say Uncle Sam deducted $3000 of the money I earned that year for income tax. At the end of the year, I did my taxes and found that I didn't make enough money to owe any income tax. Since I paid more than I owed (paid $3000; owed $0), I got a refund of $3000.
Is that $3000 the refund you're talking about that I got even though I didn't pay taxes? If so, that's MY money, so the government is not giving me a handout or redistributing someone else's wealth to me even though I didn't earn it.
But it's entirely possible that this isn't what you're talking about at all. Please explain...
Using your example above the fact that you paid (after refund) no federal taxes for the year means everything the govt provides is a handout for you and someone else is paying for it.
And if you sit and collect a welfare check and live Section 8 socialism works for you.
I'm sick of paying for losers.
Do you realize that the amount of tax dollars spent on welfare abuse is far less than is spent on cost plus contracts by our defense department or on agricultural subsidies or corporate welfare. I agree that we need some serious welfare reform but the amount of money from your paycheck that actually goes to welfare is insignificant compared to the amount that is spent on the other three areas I mentioned.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The top 1% pay 90% of the taxes - not sure where you get the fact they don't pay on 90% of their income?
That is completley false. They do not pay 90% of the taxes that's absurd!!
If they do they should seriously consider murdering their accountant.
First of all on 60% of America actually pays income tax
Secondly The top 1% only pay 26% of taxes in this country.
The very rich in this country do not pay taxes on 90% of their income. The rich don't need the paycheck, and so can elect to defer income until a better deal comes along, or take it in a preferential way--capital gains for example.
Not to mention they are able to move their money around into non-taxable but profit generating accounts. Their money is also mobile. They can move a bulk of it to places where the tax climate is more favorable
Beyond all this, the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare handing out massive tax credits to the rich. Much of their income is derived from dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only a 15% Federal rate, as opposed to a Federal rate more than twice that for ordinary income, bonuses, etc. Most of theses assets, although they generate massive anual revenue end up getting taxed very little.
Somone like Warren Buffet actually pays less taxes then his Secretary.
Buffet pays 18% of his wages to the IRS while his staff pays nearly double at 33%.
Will you please explain this a little further? Are you referring to people who work but don't make enough money to owe taxes? If so, I don't understand the problem.
For instance, I've had a job for most of my life. Income tax has been deducted from every paycheck, no matter how little money I made. Let's say that Uncle Sam deducted $5000 of the money I earned this year for income tax. At the end of the year, I do my taxes and find that I owed $3000 in income tax for the year. Since I paid more than I owed, I get a refund of $2000. (These are just totally random amounts, of course.)
Now, when I made minimum wage, let's say Uncle Sam deducted $3000 of the money I earned that year for income tax. At the end of the year, I did my taxes and found that I didn't make enough money to owe any income tax. Since I paid more than I owed (paid $3000; owed $0), I got a refund of $3000.
Is that $3000 the refund you're talking about that I got even though I didn't pay taxes? If so, that's MY money, so the government is not giving me a handout or redistributing someone else's wealth to me even though I didn't earn it.
But it's entirely possible that this isn't what you're talking about at all. Please explain...
If he explained, how would illiterate people keep believing what they are told, that Obama will send lazy people a check in the mail?
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
It's not gross income but taxable income (income after subtracting your deductions) that determines your income tax. Rich people are more likely to have higher deductions due to their corresponding larger mortgages, state income taxes, and property taxes. These large deductions significantly reduce the amount of federal income tax wealthy people must pay.
Also federal income tax is based on income—not wealth. If you´re worth a million dollars yet have little taxable income, you might not pay federal income tax at all. Take the extreme example (and one I´ve seen first-hand) of a multi-millionaire family where neither parent is employed nor does anything to generate significant income other than interest, high rent on buildings they own and investments (All written off) Combined with an enormous mortgage deduction, they might pay no federal income tax at all.
Once again your source is missing a crucial point. Again I'll use Warren Buffet, Bill Gates Ect..Because their income is made up largely of dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only 15 percent. They end up writing off about 90% of their annual income.
It's not gross income but taxable income (income after subtracting your deductions) that determines your income tax. Rich people are more likely to have higher deductions due to their corresponding larger mortgages, state income taxes, and property taxes. These large deductions significantly reduce the amount of federal income tax wealthy people must pay.
Also federal income tax is based on income—not wealth. If you´re worth a million dollars yet have little taxable income, you might not pay federal income tax at all. Take the extreme example (and one I´ve seen first-hand) of a multi-millionaire family where neither parent is employed nor does anything to generate significant income other than interest, high rent on buildings they own and investments (All written off) Combined with an enormous mortgage deduction, they might pay no federal income tax at all.
Once again your source is missing a crucial point. Again I'll use Warren Buffet, Bill Gates Ect..Because their income is made up largely of dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only 15 percent. They end up writing off about 90% of their annual income.
The bottom 50% pay less then 3% of their income on taxes (28675/963134) which is a lot less then 15%.
You can't honestly say that this is fair. It's a very naive assumption to proclaim that all of America's income is on the same taxable level.
It's absurd.
The very rich in this country don't count on their salary to get by like the lower 50% of the country. It's an inherintly different reality where the salary for the top 1% is inconsequential in comparrison to the money generated by investments, Property, Rent, Corporate Welfare,hedge funds, Captial Gains, Write offs, Write offs, and Write offs.
For the top 1% of the USA the income which they claim to the IRS is just a written number provided for tax purposes. It does not take into account or represent the actual income.
You can't tell me that Obama's proposed tax hike on the richest 1% of this country on their "Claimed" Income is going to at all effect the "Actual" income of these idividuals. It's a total joke. The rich aren't going to suffer because of this.
It's meant to beef up the income of Middle America. Get them spending again, buying American Cars, Homes, ect ect.
I just think people are being brainwashed here by these cry babies.
This again goes back to the false assumption that the rich will actually buy into American investments with their money...They don't. They're money goes overseas because it's a highly lucritive investment. It doesn't stay in the American Economy and It doesn't trickle down.
Giving Tax cuts to the rich as we've been doing for the last 8 years and beyond is pointless. It doesn't work.
The problem with the economy is that the middle class like the very rich are not buying into America either. They have no money because they are strapped for cash living paycheck to paycheck and paying obscene costs for healthcare.
It's not working and I can't understand for the life of me how anyone in the Middle Class can vote for someone who is hanging onto this ridiculous ideaology that by giving more money to the rich we are somehow going to enhance the qaulity of life for all of America.
You can't honestly say that this is fair. It's a very naive assumption to proclaim that all of America's income is on the same taxable level.
It's absurd.
The very rich in this country don't count on their salary to get by like the lower 50% of the country. It's an inherintly different reality where the salary for the top 1% is inconsequential in comparrison to the money generated by investments, Property, Rent, Corporate Welfare,hedge funds, Captial Gains, Write offs, Write offs, and Write offs.
It's also under a false assumption that the rich will actually buy into American investments with their money...They don't. They're money goes overseas because it's a highly lucritive investment. It doesn't stay in the American Economy and It doesn't trickle down.
Giving Tax cuts to the rich as we've been doing for the last 8 years and beyond is pointless. It doesn't work.
The problem with the economy is that the middle class isn't buy into America either. They have no money because they are strapped for cash living paycheck to paycheck and paying obscene costs for healthcare.
It's not working and I can't understand for the life of me how anyone in the Middle Class can vote for someone who is hanging onto this ridiculous ideaology that by giving more money to the rich we are somehow going to enhance the qaulity of life for all of America.
A flat tax isn't fair?????????? Why the hell not. Tax everything the same for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A flat tax isn't fair?????????? Why the hell not. Tax everything the same for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once again.
Think of what you are proposing.
35% to someone who makes $500,000 a year is a hell of lot different to someone making $50,000 dollars a year.
It may work if the money, and assets of the bottom 50% were on the same level of that of the upper 1% of the country. But the truth is...It's not.
You need a tax system that ensures that everyone is paying their fair share and not hiding behind these loopholes that grossly distort what people are actually earning and paying into the countries tax system.
The rich have far more avenues and loopholes to throw their money than many of us in this country.
It's not punishing the rich and rewarding the poor. It has nothing to do with hard work and nothing to do with lazyness.
It's about making the tax system fair so that everyone benifits.
Right now only a very few are benifiting from this tax system.
35% to someone who makes $500,000 a year is a hell of lot different to someone making $50,000 dollars a year.
That doesn't make sense to me at all.
Why not - the person who makes 500K pays 10 times as much in taxes as the person who makes 50K. Makes 10 times as much - pays 10 times as much in taxes.
Why not - the person who makes 500K pays 10 times as much in taxes as the person who makes 50K. Makes 10 times as much - pays 10 times as much in taxes.
Yes but they also earn 500-1000 dollars more income than the bottom 50%.
The person claiming $50,000 income is not writing off anywhere near as much of their actual income as the person earning $500,000 - $500,000,000 and they don't qualifiy for the same tax breaks that the top 1% qualifiy for as well.
Besides how can you tax the Bottom 50% more taxes and expect them to invest in this country.
You'll choke the middle class as they have substantially more to lose.
Yes but they also earn 500-1000 dollars more income than the bottom 50%.
The person claiming $50,000 income is not writing off anywhere near as much of their actual income as the person earning $500,000 - $500,000,000 and they don't qualifiy for the same tax breaks that the top 1% qualifiy for as well.
Besides how can you tax the Bottom 50% more taxes and expect them to invest in this country.
You'll choke the middle class as they have substantially more to lose.
Agree to disagree - I want a fair/flat tax and you want everyone to make 50K-75K - no more and no less - or something close to that. You make 200K - well we are going to tax you at 75% because you can live on 50K.
i work for major league baseball, they make a crap ton of money and i get some of it with a paycheck, get paid descent for what i do..dont know what to tell you
Trickle down economics never trickles down. It's more or less a scheme by the Republicans and corporate America to keep the middle class and poor in their place. It can be looked at as a pyramid scheme with very few making it to the top of the pyramid.
The wage disparity among CEOs and the lower levels is astronomical. Why should CEOs make absorbent amounts of money along with bonuses? I understand that they should be paid a good amount for running a company but at some point enough is enough. Spread the wealth on down. There is no reason why the wealth should be concentrated at the top.
Republicans always tout the message of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps but if people cannot afford the the boots or the straps what are they going to pull themselves up by? A progressive tax system is the best way to give people a fighting chance. It's not welfare or socialism but an opportunity to keep a little bit of what they make in their pocket.
A gallon of milk and gas money cost a lot more for someone who makes $40-50 grand per year vs someone who makes 100,000+ a year, especially when you throw kids into the mix.
“Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.”
Using your example above the fact that you paid (after refund) no federal taxes for the year means everything the govt provides is a handout for you and someone else is paying for it.
This doesn't address my question at all. I am asking whether that $3000 refund is the check pjalive21 is suggesting I would get from the government that I didn't earn. No one has answered this question.
Regarding your comment above, if you want to talk about whether extremely poor people should have to pay income tax, that's a different subject.
But exactly what handouts are you saying I got from the government?
This doesn't address my question at all. I am asking whether that $3000 refund is the check pjalive21 is suggesting I would get from the government that I didn't earn. No one has answered this question.
Regarding your comment above, if you want to talk about whether extremely poor people should have to pay income tax, that's a different subject.
But exactly what handouts are you saying I got from the government?
If you paid no federal taxes (paid $3000 during year - filed taxes and with deductions and credits got it all back) then every service the federal govt provides: defense, infrastructure, mail, court system, national parks, FBI, CIA, NASA, Homeland Security, etc, etc you got for free.
If you paid no federal taxes (paid $3000 during year - filed taxes and with deductions and credits got it all back) then every service the federal govt provides: defense, infrastructure, mail, court system, national parks, FBI, CIA, NASA, Homeland Security, etc, etc you got for free.
Well mail you pay for with postage. Infrastructure (depending on the various types) you pay for through state taxes, fairs and tolls. Court system also collects court fees when and if you have to go to court. Social Security and Medicare you pay into yourself, long term disability the same. Many of our localized municiple services are paid for through property taxes and local/state sales taxes. So with the exception of say nation security, national parks and NASA people who pay no federal taxes still pay into many of the government services provided.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well mail you pay for with postage. Infrastructure (depending on the various types) you pay for through state taxes, fairs and tolls. Court system also collects court fees when and if you have to go to court. Social Security and Medicare you pay into yourself, long term disability the same. Many of our localized municiple services are paid for through property taxes and local/state sales taxes. So with the exception of say nation security, national parks and NASA people who pay no federal taxes still pay into many of the government services provided.
All I'm saying is ALL federal services you receice for FREE. If it is something via the state/muni/county well how much did you pay in taxes towards them?
The source of revenue of the USA Govt is:
80% - Individual and payroll taxes
13% - Corporate Taxes
7% - excise, estate and gift taxes, custom duties and misc.
The very rich in this country do not pay taxes on 90% of their income. The rich don't need the paycheck, and so can elect to defer income until a better deal comes along, or take it in a preferential way--capital gains for example.
OK - let's assume that what you're saying here is true (and I don't think it's anything other than something that occurs a very small amount of the time) - this is exactly why a consumption or sales tax would tax them more. Maybe they can defer some income, but they definitely consume and buy things.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Agree to disagree - I want a fair/flat tax and you want everyone to make 50K-75K - no more and no less - or something close to that. You make 200K - well we are going to tax you at 75% because you can live on 50K.
Look we obviously both seek a fair tax system.
I did not say that everyone should make no more than 50-75K.
What I'm saying is that in order to tax everyone on a fair level you must first be willing to cut most of the tax breaks,loopholes, and incentives that are in place that enable to richest 1% of this country to not pay taxes on a very large sum (90%) of their actual assets, investments and actual income.
You can not tax everyone an equal percentage when a portion of your taxed population is subject to massive tax breaks, capital gains, benefits, and incentives when another portion of your taxed population is not.
I did not say that everyone should make no more than 50-75K.
What I'm saying is that in order to tax everyone on a fair level you must first be willing to cut most of the tax breaks,loopholes, and incentives that are in place that enable to richest 1% of this country to not pay taxes on a very large sum (90%) of their actual assets, investments and actual income.
You can not tax everyone an equal percentage when a portion of your taxed population is subject to massive tax breaks, capital gains, benefits, and incentives when another portion of your taxed population is not.
What loopholes do the rich have that the poor do not?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well mail you pay for with postage. Infrastructure (depending on the various types) you pay for through state taxes, fairs and tolls. Court system also collects court fees when and if you have to go to court. Social Security and Medicare you pay into yourself, long term disability the same. Many of our localized municiple services are paid for through property taxes and local/state sales taxes. So with the exception of say nation security, national parks and NASA people who pay no federal taxes still pay into many of the government services provided.
Exactly. And I can't remember the last time I went to a national park, I don't care whether or not we go to the moon, and I certainly never asked the federal government to bomb Iraqi children in my name.
And still, no one has answered my original question.
OK - let's assume that what you're saying here is true (and I don't think it's anything other than something that occurs a very small amount of the time) - this is exactly why a consumption or sales tax would tax them more. Maybe they can defer some income, but they definitely consume and buy things.
No doubt they buy things.
Problem is they do not invest their money in America. The largest portion of their money goes to foriegn investments. No fault of their own due to the incentives of doing such.
What we've forgoten and it's been proven over and over again...Henry Ford as a perfect example...That the middle class is what drives this economy.
It's absurd to think that 1% or 5% of this population can stimulate growth by the sheer notion of their personal wealth.
Give the Middle Class some spending money and it will pay off big time. They'll even make the 1% even richer because production and consumption of their products will spike due to a surge in Middle Class purchases of these "American products"
Comments
Oh come on!! Do you really see the rich living out in the woods somewhere in a tar paper shack with their money buried in the backyard??? Nope. They spend it.
Do people really believe this crap?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You've really somehow convinced yourself that the wealthy are really only paying taxes on 10% of their income???!!! WOW!
And with a sales tax you think the wealthy would pay $0. The only way they could do that would be to not purchase anything.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Will you please explain this a little further? Are you referring to people who work but don't make enough money to owe taxes? If so, I don't understand the problem.
For instance, I've had a job for most of my life. Income tax has been deducted from every paycheck, no matter how little money I made. Let's say that Uncle Sam deducted $5000 of the money I earned this year for income tax. At the end of the year, I do my taxes and find that I owed $3000 in income tax for the year. Since I paid more than I owed, I get a refund of $2000. (These are just totally random amounts, of course.)
Now, when I made minimum wage, let's say Uncle Sam deducted $3000 of the money I earned that year for income tax. At the end of the year, I did my taxes and found that I didn't make enough money to owe any income tax. Since I paid more than I owed (paid $3000; owed $0), I got a refund of $3000.
Is that $3000 the refund you're talking about that I got even though I didn't pay taxes? If so, that's MY money, so the government is not giving me a handout or redistributing someone else's wealth to me even though I didn't earn it.
But it's entirely possible that this isn't what you're talking about at all. Please explain...
Using your example above the fact that you paid (after refund) no federal taxes for the year means everything the govt provides is a handout for you and someone else is paying for it.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
AMEN
And if you sit and collect a welfare check and live Section 8 socialism works for you.
I'm sick of paying for losers.
Do you realize that the amount of tax dollars spent on welfare abuse is far less than is spent on cost plus contracts by our defense department or on agricultural subsidies or corporate welfare. I agree that we need some serious welfare reform but the amount of money from your paycheck that actually goes to welfare is insignificant compared to the amount that is spent on the other three areas I mentioned.
That is completley false. They do not pay 90% of the taxes that's absurd!!
If they do they should seriously consider murdering their accountant.
First of all on 60% of America actually pays income tax
Secondly The top 1% only pay 26% of taxes in this country.
The very rich in this country do not pay taxes on 90% of their income. The rich don't need the paycheck, and so can elect to defer income until a better deal comes along, or take it in a preferential way--capital gains for example.
Not to mention they are able to move their money around into non-taxable but profit generating accounts. Their money is also mobile. They can move a bulk of it to places where the tax climate is more favorable
Beyond all this, the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare handing out massive tax credits to the rich. Much of their income is derived from dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only a 15% Federal rate, as opposed to a Federal rate more than twice that for ordinary income, bonuses, etc. Most of theses assets, although they generate massive anual revenue end up getting taxed very little.
Somone like Warren Buffet actually pays less taxes then his Secretary.
Buffet pays 18% of his wages to the IRS while his staff pays nearly double at 33%.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22652.html
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
No.
I think it is you that have convinced yourself of some magic dream world where Corporate Greed and Loopholes for the very rich do not exist.
As for your theory on the rich buying so much into America.
I think you seriously need to look where the top 5% of this country spends their money. IIt sure as fuck isn't in America.
I don't know about you...But I don't see many Billionaires driving American Made Cars.
If he explained, how would illiterate people keep believing what they are told, that Obama will send lazy people a check in the mail?
Remember,
It's not gross income but taxable income (income after subtracting your deductions) that determines your income tax. Rich people are more likely to have higher deductions due to their corresponding larger mortgages, state income taxes, and property taxes. These large deductions significantly reduce the amount of federal income tax wealthy people must pay.
Also federal income tax is based on income—not wealth. If you´re worth a million dollars yet have little taxable income, you might not pay federal income tax at all. Take the extreme example (and one I´ve seen first-hand) of a multi-millionaire family where neither parent is employed nor does anything to generate significant income other than interest, high rent on buildings they own and investments (All written off) Combined with an enormous mortgage deduction, they might pay no federal income tax at all.
Once again your source is missing a crucial point. Again I'll use Warren Buffet, Bill Gates Ect..Because their income is made up largely of dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only 15 percent. They end up writing off about 90% of their annual income.
The bottom 50% pay less then 3% of their income on taxes (28675/963134) which is a lot less then 15%.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
i am all for wealth...abundance, prosperity in all facets..
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Okay so tax everyone 35% of their ACTUAL income????
Warren Buffet earned $65 Million in 2007
Bottom 50%...(Being Generous) what?...$25,000-$35,000??
Tax them all equal 35%
Who is honsestly going to suffer here??
You can't honestly say that this is fair. It's a very naive assumption to proclaim that all of America's income is on the same taxable level.
It's absurd.
The very rich in this country don't count on their salary to get by like the lower 50% of the country. It's an inherintly different reality where the salary for the top 1% is inconsequential in comparrison to the money generated by investments, Property, Rent, Corporate Welfare,hedge funds, Captial Gains, Write offs, Write offs, and Write offs.
For the top 1% of the USA the income which they claim to the IRS is just a written number provided for tax purposes. It does not take into account or represent the actual income.
You can't tell me that Obama's proposed tax hike on the richest 1% of this country on their "Claimed" Income is going to at all effect the "Actual" income of these idividuals. It's a total joke. The rich aren't going to suffer because of this.
It's meant to beef up the income of Middle America. Get them spending again, buying American Cars, Homes, ect ect.
I just think people are being brainwashed here by these cry babies.
This again goes back to the false assumption that the rich will actually buy into American investments with their money...They don't. They're money goes overseas because it's a highly lucritive investment. It doesn't stay in the American Economy and It doesn't trickle down.
Giving Tax cuts to the rich as we've been doing for the last 8 years and beyond is pointless. It doesn't work.
The problem with the economy is that the middle class like the very rich are not buying into America either. They have no money because they are strapped for cash living paycheck to paycheck and paying obscene costs for healthcare.
It's not working and I can't understand for the life of me how anyone in the Middle Class can vote for someone who is hanging onto this ridiculous ideaology that by giving more money to the rich we are somehow going to enhance the qaulity of life for all of America.
A flat tax isn't fair?????????? Why the hell not. Tax everything the same for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Once again.
Think of what you are proposing.
35% to someone who makes $500,000 a year is a hell of lot different to someone making $50,000 dollars a year.
It may work if the money, and assets of the bottom 50% were on the same level of that of the upper 1% of the country. But the truth is...It's not.
You need a tax system that ensures that everyone is paying their fair share and not hiding behind these loopholes that grossly distort what people are actually earning and paying into the countries tax system.
The rich have far more avenues and loopholes to throw their money than many of us in this country.
It's not punishing the rich and rewarding the poor. It has nothing to do with hard work and nothing to do with lazyness.
It's about making the tax system fair so that everyone benifits.
Right now only a very few are benifiting from this tax system.
Why not - the person who makes 500K pays 10 times as much in taxes as the person who makes 50K. Makes 10 times as much - pays 10 times as much in taxes.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Yes but they also earn 500-1000 dollars more income than the bottom 50%.
The person claiming $50,000 income is not writing off anywhere near as much of their actual income as the person earning $500,000 - $500,000,000 and they don't qualifiy for the same tax breaks that the top 1% qualifiy for as well.
Besides how can you tax the Bottom 50% more taxes and expect them to invest in this country.
You'll choke the middle class as they have substantially more to lose.
Agree to disagree - I want a fair/flat tax and you want everyone to make 50K-75K - no more and no less - or something close to that. You make 200K - well we are going to tax you at 75% because you can live on 50K.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Trickle down economics never trickles down. It's more or less a scheme by the Republicans and corporate America to keep the middle class and poor in their place. It can be looked at as a pyramid scheme with very few making it to the top of the pyramid.
The wage disparity among CEOs and the lower levels is astronomical. Why should CEOs make absorbent amounts of money along with bonuses? I understand that they should be paid a good amount for running a company but at some point enough is enough. Spread the wealth on down. There is no reason why the wealth should be concentrated at the top.
Republicans always tout the message of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps but if people cannot afford the the boots or the straps what are they going to pull themselves up by? A progressive tax system is the best way to give people a fighting chance. It's not welfare or socialism but an opportunity to keep a little bit of what they make in their pocket.
A gallon of milk and gas money cost a lot more for someone who makes $40-50 grand per year vs someone who makes 100,000+ a year, especially when you throw kids into the mix.
This doesn't address my question at all. I am asking whether that $3000 refund is the check pjalive21 is suggesting I would get from the government that I didn't earn. No one has answered this question.
Regarding your comment above, if you want to talk about whether extremely poor people should have to pay income tax, that's a different subject.
But exactly what handouts are you saying I got from the government?
If you paid no federal taxes (paid $3000 during year - filed taxes and with deductions and credits got it all back) then every service the federal govt provides: defense, infrastructure, mail, court system, national parks, FBI, CIA, NASA, Homeland Security, etc, etc you got for free.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Well mail you pay for with postage. Infrastructure (depending on the various types) you pay for through state taxes, fairs and tolls. Court system also collects court fees when and if you have to go to court. Social Security and Medicare you pay into yourself, long term disability the same. Many of our localized municiple services are paid for through property taxes and local/state sales taxes. So with the exception of say nation security, national parks and NASA people who pay no federal taxes still pay into many of the government services provided.
All I'm saying is ALL federal services you receice for FREE. If it is something via the state/muni/county well how much did you pay in taxes towards them?
The source of revenue of the USA Govt is:
80% - Individual and payroll taxes
13% - Corporate Taxes
7% - excise, estate and gift taxes, custom duties and misc.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
OK - let's assume that what you're saying here is true (and I don't think it's anything other than something that occurs a very small amount of the time) - this is exactly why a consumption or sales tax would tax them more. Maybe they can defer some income, but they definitely consume and buy things.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Look we obviously both seek a fair tax system.
I did not say that everyone should make no more than 50-75K.
What I'm saying is that in order to tax everyone on a fair level you must first be willing to cut most of the tax breaks,loopholes, and incentives that are in place that enable to richest 1% of this country to not pay taxes on a very large sum (90%) of their actual assets, investments and actual income.
You can not tax everyone an equal percentage when a portion of your taxed population is subject to massive tax breaks, capital gains, benefits, and incentives when another portion of your taxed population is not.
What loopholes do the rich have that the poor do not?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Exactly. And I can't remember the last time I went to a national park, I don't care whether or not we go to the moon, and I certainly never asked the federal government to bomb Iraqi children in my name.
And still, no one has answered my original question.
No doubt they buy things.
Problem is they do not invest their money in America. The largest portion of their money goes to foriegn investments. No fault of their own due to the incentives of doing such.
What we've forgoten and it's been proven over and over again...Henry Ford as a perfect example...That the middle class is what drives this economy.
It's absurd to think that 1% or 5% of this population can stimulate growth by the sheer notion of their personal wealth.
Give the Middle Class some spending money and it will pay off big time. They'll even make the 1% even richer because production and consumption of their products will spike due to a surge in Middle Class purchases of these "American products"