Saudi Arabian gang-rape victim is jailed

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Comments

  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Carlos D wrote:
    By that logic we shouldn't punish criminals either since that is their way of thinking,doing so would be against their individual choice to commit crimes.....the only flaw in that is that allowing these people to commit evil leads to the evil being commited at the expense of innocent people such as the woman in this story.This is not a case of me trying to impose my values and beliefs on someone else purely for the heck of it,this is about treating human beings fairly and justly.
    If you got gang raped by seven men would you simply accept being punished for it as a just punishment simply because of your culture?The fact of the matter is that Muslims are increasingly trying to stick their nose in our business and trying to change our culture,look at the riots over the Mohammed cartoons,if anything we're the ones being bullied and repressed in terms of being allowed to express what we believe in.Islam is growing in Europe and becoming more vocal,if Turkey joins the EU it will be a disaster for Europe and the world.That's why we have to speak up against evil like the scumbags who are carrying out this punishment,because before we know it it's going to be the type of barbarism we can expect to be practised in our society.This story wouldn't have got this much worldwide attention had it happened years ago but people are so sick of Muslims thinking they are morally superior to everyone in the West that it's about time their own faults were exposed.

    No it's not the same. Criminals breaks laws in our country so they are prosecuted for doing so. The laws in Saudi Arabia, as fucked up as they are, have to abided by the people. We, as non-Saudies, have no right to tell them how they should run their country or to force them to abide to the manner in which we believe they should run their country.

    I feel terribly sorry for that woman and believe that the manner in which her government is treating her is horrible, but those are the laws of Saudi Arabia and it is up to the citizens of Saudi Arabia to force their government to change those laws not us.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    Carlos D wrote:
    By that logic we shouldn't punish criminals either since that is their way of thinking,doing so would be against their individual choice to commit crimes.....the only flaw in that is that allowing these people to commit evil leads to the evil being commited at the expense of innocent people such as the woman in this story.This is not a case of me trying to impose my values and beliefs on someone else purely for the heck of it,this is about treating human beings fairly and justly.
    If you got gang raped by seven men would you simply accept being punished for it as a just punishment simply because of your culture?The fact of the matter is that Muslims are increasingly trying to stick their nose in our business and trying to change our culture,look at the riots over the Mohammed cartoons,if anything we're the ones being bullied and repressed in terms of being allowed to express what we believe in.Islam is growing in Europe and becoming more vocal,if Turkey joins the EU it will be a disaster for Europe and the world.That's why we have to speak up against evil like the scumbags who are carrying out this punishment,because before we know it it's going to be the type of barbarism we can expect to be practised in our society.This story wouldn't have got this much worldwide attention had it happened years ago but people are so sick of Muslims thinking they are morally superior to everyone in the West that it's about time their own faults were exposed.

    Thanks for generalising, it only makes you look more foolish.

    Western culture being bullied and repressed by Muslims? Are you serious? It's not the West that has fucked with that region for the past 2 centuries. No no they haven't been going there continuously bombing the shit out of them. Its blasphemy if they complain. Of course after all they did bloody protest a cartoon. Yes please sook about a cartoon while more Iraqi children get blown to bits.

    Before you start yapping about things you should get your facts straight. Even though the punishment is heinous, she isn't being punished because she was raped. She is being punished because she has committed adultery with the man she was in the car with and she has admitted to it. As full of shit they might be, its their laws if you don't like it don't live there, if you can't leave don't break the laws.

    It seems as though you have a personal vendetta against the Turks. I think you should read up more about the country before you continue. You walk in Istanbul in the middle of Ramadan and people are eating on the streets. These are some of the first Muslims to sign a peace treaty with Israel. The only problem for the EU when it comes to signing in Turkey is economical. But hey it wasn't a problem to sign poor Eastern European countries. Is it cause they are white? Shit man I think you need to kick the Spanish and Italians out of there!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    NCfan wrote:
    No, they are comparable. The women isn't being jailed and whipped becuase she was raped. She's receiving that punishment becuase alone in a car with a male that was a non-relative. That is her offense - not getting raped.

    And so being alone with a member of the opposite sex is pretty much along the same lines of stupid religous laws such as not wearing the proper dress, listening to Western music, etc...

    So my question is this... to all those that say "who are we to judge other cultures", why is it that we can't judge when things like this happen?

    i judge stupidity everywhere i see it. there are many christians around here who ask why i single jesus-loers out for disdain but not muslims. let this show them wrong. i am equally critical of disgustingly outdated islamic practices. there is also a huge gulf between not judging another's beliefs and way of life and being critical of injustice. if people want to not read harry potter becos it's satanic, or want to wear that funky get-up burkha, that's on them. but when it comes to things like lashing rape victims and depriving gays of equal rights, that's going too far. basically, you can live by whatever code you want, but when your code ceases to be voluntary and becomes the law of the land backed by violence against those who subscribe to a different code, you are in the wrong.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    NoK wrote:
    Thanks for generalising, it only makes you look more foolish.

    Western culture being bullied and repressed by Muslims? Are you serious? It's not the West that has fucked with that region for the past 2 centuries. No no they haven't been going there continuously bombing the shit out of them. Its blasphemy if they complain. Of course after all they did bloody protest a cartoon. Yes please sook about a cartoon while more Iraqi children get blown to bits.

    Before you start yapping about things you should get your facts straight. Even though the punishment is heinous, she isn't being punished because she was raped. She is being punished because she has committed adultery with the man she was in the car with and she has admitted to it. As full of shit they might be, its their laws if you don't like it don't live there, if you can't leave don't break the laws.

    It seems as though you have a personal vendetta against the Turks. I think you should read up more about the country before you continue. You walk in Istanbul in the middle of Ramadan and people are eating on the streets. These are some of the first Muslims to sign a peace treaty with Israel. The only problem for the EU when it comes to signing in Turkey is economical. But hey it wasn't a problem to sign poor Eastern European countries. Is it cause they are white? Shit man I think you need to kick the Spanish and Italians out of there!

    Well said. It seems obvious that his problem is not simply with the treatment of this one particular woman but with Muslims in general.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    dunkman wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stm

    "...But the victim was also punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.

    On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence. ...."
    weak men and religion, wonderful combination
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • JaneNY
    JaneNY Posts: 4,438
    My husband, who is a moderate muslim, wonders why the rapists weren't sentenced to death, as he says that is the written punishment for rape. To me this shows selective enforcement of shariah, being much harder on a somewhat defenseless woman, than on men. I don't agree with islam (we agree to disagree) but he has a point.
    R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
    R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
    R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    NCfan wrote:
    I
    Maybe there is more blood on the hands of the oil execs than anybody else's???

    And who's keeping americans from driving 40 mpg prius's instead of 19 mpg tahoe's?
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    JaneNY wrote:
    My husband, who is a moderate muslim, wonders why the rapists weren't sentenced to death, as he says that is the written punishment for rape. To me this shows selective enforcement of shariah, being much harder on a somewhat defenseless woman, than on men. I don't agree with islam (we agree to disagree) but he has a point.

    what do you mean by "don't agree with islam"? the whole religion? or just the sharia law thing? im just curious how youd' work around that in a marriage. it seems like it would be quite a sticking point.
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    mammasan wrote:
    Well said. It seems obvious that his problem is not simply with the treatment of this one particular woman but with Muslims in general.

    Thank you. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who realised that. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of a reply but it was starting to irritate me.
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    JaneNY wrote:
    My husband, who is a moderate muslim, wonders why the rapists weren't sentenced to death, as he says that is the written punishment for rape. To me this shows selective enforcement of shariah, being much harder on a somewhat defenseless woman, than on men. I don't agree with islam (we agree to disagree) but he has a point.

    Let me start by stating once again that I highly disagree with the punishments.

    The reason why the attackers were not sentenced to death was because there was lack of evidence. The most of the defense was based on what the woman and man had stated. There was also a lack of witnesses. I say it is damn good to convict 7 people to up to 9 years based on what a victim says. I have seen rapists and child abusers in Western countries with mounting evidence on them being released on a technicality or given suspended sentences. Where is the justice in that?

    It is only recently that Australia has introduced amendments that allows a rape victim to give her testimony by video. They have also introduced "an agreement" that stops defense lawyers from badgering a rape victim. I say its about time. Just recently there was an article about a 15 year old girl suspected of stealing being put in a jail cell with 20 men in Brazil. She was raped relentlessly. That was not an isolated case.

    Finally, you should watch the interview with the husband of the woman and what he says about the treatment of women in his culture. IF THIS WAS A CASE AGAINST DEFENSELESS WOMEN THEN THE GUY IN THE CAR WITH HER WHO WAS ALSO RAPED WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONVICTED AND PUNISHED IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

    I repeat once again, because of the final statement it is only logical that one could assume it is fundamentally Shi'ite persecution in a Sunni dominant country than it is about a woman.
  • Scubascott
    Scubascott Posts: 815
    even flow? wrote:
    I feel no remorse for when people get popped smoking pot, drunk driving, jay walking, spitting on the sidewalk, etc. So why should a story like this from a country like this shock or even make me feel bad or think something should be done. There are rules in the country and when you break them they pay the price. As for the rape it seems to happen quite a bit over there. Whether it is their own women or nannies who don't speak the language looking to make money. As OJ said, "it happens".

    Are you serious?

    Just because you had the misfortune of being born in a country with crazy unjust laws does not mean that you agreed to abide by them.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    NoK wrote:
    Thank you. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who realised that. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of a reply but it was starting to irritate me.

    No problem. I find that way too many people base their opinions of Islam on the actions of corrupt governments, such as the Saudies, or extremist like Bin Laden. The majority of Muslims are good decent people who simply want to live their lives in peace. To judge all of them based on the actions of a small minority just shows their ignorance.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    NoK wrote:
    Let me start by stating once again that I highly disagree with the punishments.

    The reason why the attackers were not sentenced to death was because there was lack of evidence. The most of the defense was based on what the woman and man had stated. There was also a lack of witnesses. I say it is damn good to convict 7 people to up to 9 years based on what a victim says. I have seen rapists and child abusers in Western countries with mounting evidence on them being released on a technicality or given suspended sentences. Where is the justice in that?

    It is only recently that Australia has introduced amendments that allows a rape victim to give her testimony by video. They have also introduced "an agreement" that stops defense lawyers from badgering a rape victim. I say its about time. Just recently there was an article about a 15 year old girl suspected of stealing being put in a jail cell with 20 men in Brazil. She was raped relentlessly. That was not an isolated case.

    Finally, you should watch the interview with the husband of the woman and what he says about the treatment of women in his culture. IF THIS WAS A CASE AGAINST DEFENSELESS WOMEN THEN THE GUY IN THE CAR WITH HER WHO WAS ALSO RAPED WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONVICTED AND PUNISHED IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

    I repeat once again, because of the final statement it is only logical that one could assume it is fundamentally Shi'ite persecution in a Sunni dominant country than it is about a woman.

    some good points. *clap* *clap*
    ----

    on another note, americam money and guns is whats keeping the saudi in arabia. Would be great to see the saudis lose power.
  • JaneNY
    JaneNY Posts: 4,438
    soulsinging wrote:
    what do you mean by "don't agree with islam"? the whole religion? or just the sharia law thing? im just curious how youd' work around that in a marriage. it seems like it would be quite a sticking point.

    That is a different topic, and not the subject of this thread, and definitely none of your business. I only shared what I did as background for my comments.
    R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
    R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
    R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008

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