Saudi Arabian gang-rape victim is jailed

810wmb

blackredyellow wrote:

You mean the article about Iran cracking down on things like dress code, haricuts and not mixing at parties?

yeah... same thing as a victim of a gang rape getting jailed for being raped... :rolleyes:

you are a poopiehead

genie

dunkman wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stm

"...But the victim was also punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.

On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence. ...."

and this is why i am lucky to have been born on European land's

i wouldn't even travel to that country.

call me ignorant and narrow minded go ahead, cause i couldn't give a fuck. people in there are mad, and laws are old-fashioned and crazy.

that's why i will never go out with a religious fuck......unless he is a christian...then i would have to think twice.....or a paganist or spiritualist those are ok

mammasan

810wmb wrote:

i posted something similar to this a while back...except it was in iran.


from what i remember everyone one said "so what, it's none of our biz"


wtf?

Repression and cruelty like this is sad, but unfortunetly we do not have a right to dictate how these government rule over their people. We can encourage them to embrace a more civilized way to operate. We can even cut all diplomatic and economic ties with them in protest, but we can not dictate how they act. Secondly, while the current administration constantly denounces the way the Iranian government oppresses it's people, you hardly hear a word out of them when it comes to the actions of the Saudi government which is by far worse that the Iranians.

810wmb

mammasan wrote:

Repression and cruelty like this is sad, but unfortunetly we do not have a right to dictate how these government rule over their people. We can encourage them to embrace a more civilized way to operate. We can even cut all diplomatic and economic ties with them in protest, but we can not dictate how they act. Secondly, while the current administration constantly denounces the way the Iranian government oppresses it's people, you hardly hear a word out of them when it comes to the actions of the Saudi government which is by far worse that the Iranians.

i'm not disputing what you posted.

it seems that some talk out of both sides of their mouths.

mammasan

810wmb wrote:

i'm not disputing what you posted.

it seems that some talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Well some people will react negetively to anything that comes out of this administrations mouth. While I believe that it should be pointed out that Iran does oppress it's people it sounds fake coming from our government because of our relationship to Saudi Arabia.

NoK

mammasan wrote:

Repression and cruelty like this is sad, but unfortunetly we do not have a right to dictate how these government rule over their people. We can encourage them to embrace a more civilized way to operate. We can even cut all diplomatic and economic ties with them in protest, but we can not dictate how they act. Secondly, while the current administration constantly denounces the way the Iranian government oppresses it's people, you hardly hear a word out of them when it comes to the actions of the Saudi government which is by far worse that the Iranians.

If the West stopped supporting them perhaps the public in those countries could have a chance of kicking them out.

Everyone in the middle east knows the Saudi kings are corrupt bastards. The whole subject of the thread isn't about Sharia law anyway because these guys would of got the death sentence straight away. It's about Shi'ite persecution in Saudi Arabia. Thats the reason why her sentence was increased too.

I'm a sunni muslim and I can see it quite obviously.

mammasan

NoK wrote:

If the West stopped supporting them perhaps the public in those countries could have a chance of kicking them out.

Everyone in the middle east knows the Saudi kings are corrupt bastards. The whole subject of the thread isn't about Sharia law anyway because these guys would of got the death sentence straight away. It's about Shi'ite persecution in Saudi Arabia. Thats the reason why her sentence was increased too.

I'm a sunni muslim and I can see it quite obviously.

I couldn't agree with you more. Had her attackers been Shi'ites and she a Sunni they most definitely would have lost their lives and her sentence would have either been commuted or not as severe as the one impossed on this poor woman. Shi'ite are treated like second class citizens in Saudi Arabia. This brings me to another point that just further exposes the hipocracy of our government. Sometime ago I read a report that stated that the majority of foreign fighters caputered/killed in Iraq where Saudi in origin. It had been reported that Saudi Arabia was providing funds and weaponry to Sunni insurgents and militias. Not once has our government chastized the Saudi government for this, but you can hear them carrying on, on a daily basis, on how Iran is providing funds and weapons to the Shi'ites.

NoK

mammasan wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more. Had her attackers been Shi'ites and she a Sunni they most definitely would have lost their lives and her sentence would have either been commuted or not as severe as the one impossed on this poor woman. Shi'ite are treated like second class citizens in Saudi Arabia. This brings me to another point that just further exposes the hipocracy of our government. Sometime ago I read a report that stated that the majority of foreign fighters caputered/killed in Iraq where Saudi in origin. It had been reported that Saudi Arabia was providing funds and weaponry to Sunni insurgents and militias. Not once has our government chastized the Saudi government for this, but you can hear them carrying on, on a daily basis, on how Iran is providing funds and weapons to the Shi'ites.

During the war between the Lebanese army and Fatih-Al-Islam many of those fighting against the army were Saudi. But what could Lebanon do they gave us billions of dollars of aid after the Israeli war so we stayed quiet. Where the money is is where the power is.

I am not that deeply religious but I find it insulting that people like that are able to rule our holiest regions.

mammasan

NoK wrote:

I am not that deeply religious but I find it insulting that people like that are able to rule our holiest regions.

It is a shame that they also prevert the religion of Islam for their selfish needs.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Religion is a tool to keep people on their knees (literally) and obeying a form of authority.

It's a control structure. It might not have started out that way, but it sure as hell is now.

There are many good things about it, which keep people following it, however like anything, if it can be exploited...it eventually will

and...well...it has.

People now rationalize and commit murder with it. How f-ed is that?

NCfan

mammasan wrote:

Repression and cruelty like this is sad, but unfortunetly we do not have a right to dictate how these government rule over their people. We can encourage them to embrace a more civilized way to operate. We can even cut all diplomatic and economic ties with them in protest, but we can not dictate how they act. Secondly, while the current administration constantly denounces the way the Iranian government oppresses it's people, you hardly hear a word out of them when it comes to the actions of the Saudi government which is by far worse that the Iranians.

I was thking about this Mammasan. Besides the obvious reason that we need the Saudi's oil, they don't have a standing army.

If you think about it, the US would be stupid to cut ties with the Saudi's in order to force change. It's not like we would have to survive without their exports of fine wine, cheese and luxury automobiles. No, the Saudis have the most precious commodity on earth and if we couldn't get it, the US economy would crumble. Basically we are fucked, and we fucked ourselves. Actually the oil complanies fucked us in the 60's and 70's by buying off congress and not allowing inovation in the field of alternative energy. If we had of done that, we wouldn't need Middle Eastern oil by now. Maybe there is more blood on the hands of the oil execs than anybody else's???

mammasan

NCfan wrote:

I was thking about this Mammasan. Besides the obvious reason that we need the Saudi's oil, they don't have a standing army.

If you think about it, the US would be stupid to cut ties with the Saudi's in order to force change. It's not like we would have to survive without their exports of fine wine, cheese and luxury automobiles. No, the Saudis have the most precious commodity on earth and if we couldn't get it, the US economy would crumble. Basically we are fucked, and we fucked ourselves. Actually the oil complanies fucked us in the 60's and 70's by buying off congress and not allowing inovation in the field of alternative energy. If we had of done that, we wouldn't need Middle Eastern oil by now. Maybe there is more blood on the hands of the oil execs than anybody else's???

I understand that when it comes to Saudi Arabia we pretty much have our hands bound. They hold a lot of leverage over us because of their oil reserves and our need for oil. It is this relationship though that causes to loose a lot of credibility in the region. You average muslim living in the Middle East knows that the Al Sa'uds are a bunch of crooked bastards. They know that while they impose sharia laws on their own people they live an opulant life of decedence. Our unwqvering support of the Saudi government, and again I understand why this has to be, is hurting us tremendously.

NoK

More on the topic..

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/rape-victims-harsh-sentence-shocks-saudis/2007/11/16/1194766968246.html


Rape victim's harsh sentence shocks Saudis

November 17, 2007

A SAUDI court has more than doubled the number of lashes that a female rape victim was sentenced to last year after her lawyer appealed against the original sentence. The decision, which many lawyers found shocking even by Saudi standards of justice, has provoked a rare public debate about the treatment of women.

The victim's lawyer, Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, a human rights activist, drew the court's ire because of his strong public criticism of the handling of the case. He has called his client's conviction unjust and said the sentences of the seven men who raped her were too lenient.

He is also known for his past defence of critics of the monarchy.

The victim, who was 19 at the time and whose name has not been released, was raped about 18 months ago in Qatif, a city in the Eastern Province.

Her case has been widely debated since the court sentenced her to 90 lashes a year ago for being in the same car as an unrelated man, even after it ruled she had subsequently been raped. For a woman to be alone with a man who is not her husband or a relative is a crime in Saudi Arabia, whose legal code is based on a strict Wahabi interpretation of Islamic law.

Adding to the charged political nature of the case, the victim is a member of the kingdom's Shiite Muslim minority.

Mr Lahem's licence to practice law has been suspended and he is facing a hearing before a Ministry of Justice disciplinary committee on December 5 in Riyadh for appearing regularly on television and talking about the case.

Judges of the Qatif General Court have accused him of trying to tarnish the court's image by talking to the media.

The woman's offence was meeting a former boyfriend, who she had asked to return pictures he had of her because she was about to marry another man. The couple were sitting in a car when a group of seven men kidnapped them and raped them both, lawyers in the case told the Arab News.

The woman and the former boyfriend were originally sentenced to 90 lashes each for being together in private. The attackers received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison, and 80 to 1000 lashes each.

Mr Lahem appealed against the attackers' sentences, saying they were too lenient and that the treatment of the victim was too harsh. In its decision issued on Tuesday, the court increased the victim's sentence to 200 lashes and six months in jail. It also increased the sentences of her attackers to prison terms of two to nine years. The woman remains free for the time being and has not yet been lashed.

"I don't agree with this judgment," Bassem Alim, a lawyer in Jeddah, said of the woman's sentence. "I think it's overly severe. She should not be punished for going to the media and explaining her case." Dr Alim, a friend of the victim's lawyer, said the standard punishment for adultery was 60 to 80 lashes, so the sentence was unusually harsh, even for Saudi Arabia.

Abeer Mishkhas, a columnist who writes frequently about women's rights, wrote in Arab News that the woman seemed to have been singled out for particularly draconian treatment.

King Abdullah last month approved new laws regulating the judicial system, which rules on the basis of sharia, or Islamic law.

NCfan

blackredyellow wrote:

You mean the article about Iran cracking down on things like dress code, haricuts and not mixing at parties?

yeah... same thing as a victim of a gang rape getting jailed for being raped... :rolleyes:

No, they are comparable. The women isn't being jailed and whipped becuase she was raped. She's receiving that punishment becuase alone in a car with a male that was a non-relative. That is her offense - not getting raped.

And so being alone with a member of the opposite sex is pretty much along the same lines of stupid religous laws such as not wearing the proper dress, listening to Western music, etc...

So my question is this... to all those that say "who are we to judge other cultures", why is it that we can't judge when things like this happen?

LikeAnOcean

Because their laws make absolutely no fucking sense to anyone with even half a wit, it is safe to say, or politically correct to assume they are less inteligent than the rest of the world?

mammasan

NCfan wrote:

No, they are comparable. The women isn't being jailed and whipped becuase she was raped. She's receiving that punishment becuase alone in a car with a male that was a non-relative. That is her offense - not getting raped.

And so being alone with a member of the opposite sex is pretty much along the same lines of stupid religous laws such as not wearing the proper dress, listening to Western music, etc...

So my question is this... to all those that say "who are we to judge other cultures", why is it that we can't judge when things like this happen?

We can definitely judge them. I think what most people are trying to say is that we have no right to impose our beliefs on them.

Collin

NCfan wrote:

So my question is this... to all those that say "who are we to judge other cultures", why is it that we can't judge when things like this happen?

I think you can judge other cultures all you want, like they (can) judge us, but that doesn't mean you're right.

Of course, in this case I think we (= western world) are right. I think the declaration of human rights was one of the highest, if not the highest human achievement so I am definitely appalled by cases like this one. But other things like the clothes which the women are required to wear, chopping off hands... if the people themselves want these things, which isn't really unusual, who are we indeed to say it's wrong. If they really believe that losing their hand is a just punishment because it's the punishment their god chose for that crime and they consider it a part of their religion, I don't think I or anyone else should say they cannot do it. However, if they force these cruel punishments upon people who do not agree with these laws, who believe these rules and guidelines are outdated and in the present context backward, I think we (people in general) should try to prevent or stop them from doing so.

Carlos D

Well,it's good to know they stick to their principles... http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/flogging-of-saudi-gang-rape-girl-to-go-ahead-1230418.html
On a related note,if Turkey joins the EU I'm committing suicide or moving to America rather than inviting these barbaric cultures into our countries.We have nothing in common with Islamic countries(by we I mean Europe and America)and I don't think it's worth the hassle of trying to bring them around to our way of thinking.

mammasan

Carlos D wrote:

Well,it's good to know they stick to their principles... http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/flogging-of-saudi-gang-rape-girl-to-go-ahead-1230418.html
On a related note,if Turkey joins the EU I'm committing suicide or moving to America rather than inviting these barbaric cultures into our countries.We have nothing in common with Islamic countries(by we I mean Europe and America)and I don't think it's worth the hassle of trying to bring them around to our way of thinking.

Why should bring them around to our way of thinking. That is their country and their culture and regardless of how barbaric we may think it is it is not within our power or right to change that.

Carlos D

mammasan wrote:

Why should bring them around to our way of thinking. That is their country and their culture and regardless of how barbaric we may think it is it is not within our power or right to change that.

By that logic we shouldn't punish criminals either since that is their way of thinking,doing so would be against their individual choice to commit crimes.....the only flaw in that is that allowing these people to commit evil leads to the evil being commited at the expense of innocent people such as the woman in this story.This is not a case of me trying to impose my values and beliefs on someone else purely for the heck of it,this is about treating human beings fairly and justly.
If you got gang raped by seven men would you simply accept being punished for it as a just punishment simply because of your culture?The fact of the matter is that Muslims are increasingly trying to stick their nose in our business and trying to change our culture,look at the riots over the Mohammed cartoons,if anything we're the ones being bullied and repressed in terms of being allowed to express what we believe in.Islam is growing in Europe and becoming more vocal,if Turkey joins the EU it will be a disaster for Europe and the world.That's why we have to speak up against evil like the scumbags who are carrying out this punishment,because before we know it it's going to be the type of barbarism we can expect to be practised in our society.This story wouldn't have got this much worldwide attention had it happened years ago but people are so sick of Muslims thinking they are morally superior to everyone in the West that it's about time their own faults were exposed.