Authorities investigate Moore on Cuba

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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    "Whoah...I don't believe "all sides must be represented equally and fairly", unless of course one is claiming that all sides have been represented equally and fairly."

    Kabong never claimed this, he didn't say it sideways, he didn't say it indirectly but you still acted like he had an obligation to fulfill.

    Ok. Then is it fair to say that Kabong, when discussing corporations, is not in fact making any statements about the complete nature of capitalism or the complete nature of the corporations themselves, but rather simply seeking to put as much negative information about corporations out there as possible?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ok. Then is it fair to say that Kabong, when discussing corporations, is not in fact making any statements about the complete nature of capitalism or the complete nature of the corporations themselves, but rather simply seeking to put as much negative information about corporations out there as possible?

    He is seeking to put out the facts that, to him, are very important and under reported.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    farfromglorified wrote:

    Schools, police, and jails all existed before taxation did. I have no idea if there are private jails in america, but there are certainly private police forces and schools. So those things don't require taxation to exist.

    Absent taxation, schools would obviously have to be supported by willful exchange. This would mean that, since the state cannot just take people's money, they (or any private group) would have to earn it by selling schools to parents and/or students and/or charitable individuals.

    Police and jails might function differently. The individual value of such things are so high that it could likely lead to a willful "tax", wherein parts of the community agree to pay a fee to cover a town or state to provide those services for the entire locality. Furthermore, individual contraction with local private police forces has been and could be utilized by society as well.

    prisons are becoming privatized, paid for with tax dollars

    who would pay for all of these privatized services? who would pay for a privatized prison, or police force, or school?

    how about roads, libraries, bridges, military, fire fighters, damns, canals, shelter and food for the poor and elderly, etc, etc, etc, etc...? who would pay for all of these services provided by taxes?


    do you really think that it would help if every service was a profit based service? you think the police should be a profit driven service, or child protective services?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    He seeking to put out the facts that, to him, are very important and under reported.

    Are they "very important" because they are "under reported"?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    my2hands wrote:
    prisons are becoming privatized, paid for with tax dollars

    Ok. Per the context of your question, that is absolutely no different to me than if they were public and paid for with tax dollars.
    who would pay for all of these privatized services? who would pay for a privatized prison, or police force, or school?

    The people who wanted them and could afford them.
    how about roads, libraries, bridges, military, fire fighters, damns, canals, shelter and food for the poor and elderly, etc, etc, etc, etc...? who would pay for all of these services provided by taxes?

    Same answers. The people who wanted them and could afford them.
    do you really think that it would help if every service was a profit based service?

    Help what? Help whom?
    you think the police should be a profit driven service, or child protective services?

    I don't care if they're "profit driven" or not. That's up to those who actually provide the service.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ok. Per the context of your question, that is absolutely no different to me than if they were public and paid for with tax dollars.



    The people who wanted them and could afford them.



    Same answers. The people who wanted them and could afford them.



    Help what? Help whom?



    I don't care if they're "profit driven" or not. That's up to those who actually provide the service.

    I think some of these notions are a little unrealistic. There are public services that need tax revenue. Our military for example. Without taxes how would we support our military. Public works projects, such as sewers, need taxes in order to keep up with the maintanence. Street and highways repairs, unless you plan on installing tolls in every town and on every highway, need tax dollars.

    There are many services and programs that can be handled through the private sector but there are still programs and services that the private sector would not touch because there is no profitability in them.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Are they "very important" because they are "under reported"?


    Partially
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ok. Per the context of your question, that is absolutely no different to me than if they were public and paid for with tax dollars.



    The people who wanted them and could afford them.



    Same answers. The people who wanted them and could afford them.



    Help what? Help whom?



    I don't care if they're "profit driven" or not. That's up to those who actually provide the service.


    so the only people that get schools, roads, police, prisons, etc (the list goes forever) are the ones that can afford them? thats nice :rolleyes:. or they rely on the good willing of the polulace? so i will foot the bill and if you choose to be greedy you dont have to kick in $?


    your ideals dealing with taxation are way out of touch with reality dude. just being against taxes doesnt solve real life problems. taxes have come abou tof of need.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    mammasan wrote:
    I think some of these notions are a little unrealistic. There are public services that need tax revenue. Our military for example. Without taxes how would we support our military. Public works projects, such as sewers, need taxes in order to keep up with the maintanence. Street and highways repairs, unless you plan on installing tolls in every town and on every highway, need tax dollars.

    None of those things "need tax revenue". Those things need revenue.

    Can you explain to me why they need tax revenue, as opposed to other revenue?
    There are many services and programs that can be handled through the private sector but there are still programs and services that the private sector would not touch because there is no profitability in them.

    Anywhere value is possible, profit is possible.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    my2hands wrote:
    so the only people that get schools, roads, police, prisons, etc (the list goes forever) are the ones that can afford them? thats nice :rolleyes:. or they rely on the good willing of the polulace? so i will foot the bill and if you choose to be greedy you dont have to kick in $?

    Hehe...so by "function" you meant "function in an equal way for everyone"? And by "help" you meant "help the poor at the cost of the rich"?
    your ideals dealing with taxation are way out of touch with reality dude. just being against taxes doesnt solve real life problems. taxes have come abou tof of need.

    Murder comes about because of need too. I'm not a fan of murder.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Partially

    Why else are they important?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    None of those things "need tax revenue". Those things need revenue.

    Can you explain to me why they need tax revenue, as opposed to other revenue?



    Anywhere value is possible, profit is possible.

    Well, self-value to me has no relation to money, or profits. SELF-value. Do you understand that?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    Well, self-value to me has no relation to money, or profits. SELF-value. Do you understand that?

    Very much so! Now, how do you see self-value fitting into the above concepts?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Why else are they important?

    Because they are concerning to him.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Very much so! Now, how do you see self-value fitting into the above concepts?

    What concepts? Money and profits? Not at all.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • DMBlover
    DMBlover Posts: 33
    wow, michael moore's film has already generated a lot of discussion and its not even out yet. Based on his letter on Daily Kos, the Bush administration new about his travel plans since October 2006 but they wait until two weeks before cannes to address it? Come on now. Well, I hope sicko will lead to some changes in our health care system because of this.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/11/93540/9491
    Keep the big door open and everyone will come around.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    What concepts? Money and profits? Not at all.

    Ok. Then why did you bring it up?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...so by "function" you meant "function in an equal way for everyone"? And by "help" you meant "help the poor at the cost of the rich"?



    Murder comes about because of need too. I'm not a fan of murder.


    dude, do you ever give a straight answer? taxes are not comparable to murder. poor people and rich people need infrastructure.


    your theory of taxation is pure bullshit unless you can tell me how society would function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes.

    your only answer was if they can afford it? next time someone burglarizes your house i bet you dont complain about your taxes when you call the police and they help protect your ass whether you can afford it or not.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Because they are concerning to him.

    Why is he "concerned" about them?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Why is he "concerned" about them?

    Because of the effects they produce.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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