It is illegal to defend yourself in the UK

jeffbr · February 2008

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.

flywallyfly · February 2008

Just sounds like they are going through the motions to make sure they have the whole story and dont look biased. It didnt say anything about not being able to defend yourself. That would be messed up if that were the case though.

jeffbr · February 2008

I hope that's the case. But it is obnoxious that they have to determine whether "his reaction was inappropriately severe", when the guy was fighting for his life and went to the hospital for neck and back wounds. It also said he's been released on bail which I sure hope means something else in England than it does here.

flywallyfly · February 2008

jeffbr wrote:

I hope that's the case. But it is obnoxious that they have to determine whether "his reaction was inappropriately severe", when the guy was fighting for his life and went to the hospital for neck and back wounds. It also said he's been released on bail which I sure hope means something else in England than it does here.

I hear ya. That must have been one helluva fight.

Kann · February 2008

Yes, you just have to wait for the thing to be over with.

wiki
"A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable. "
The way I understand it is that when you kill someone out of self defence you have to prove it was necessary.

dunkman · February 2008

Kann wrote:

Yes, you just have to wait for the thing to be over with.

wiki
"A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable. "
The way I understand it is that when you kill someone out of self defence you have to prove it was necessary.

this is how i understood it... depends what they define as 'reasonable'..

stu gee · February 2008

I dont know what i would deem as reasonable force in defending yourself from some nutter attacking you with a knife to be honest!!

elmer · February 2008

jeffbr wrote:

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.

I hadn't heard of this, doubt he will be charged but fuck, it wouldn't surprise me. A couple years back there was a case of a farmer called Tony Martin who shot dead one of a pair of intruders who he caught inside his home at night, turned out to be a 15year old who caught the bullet. He was sent to prison but I think due to a public and media outcry he may have been released early.

Kann · February 2008

dunkman wrote:

this is how i understood it... depends what they define as 'reasonable'..

I think it is defined as proportioned :
Someone attacks you bare handed to steal your money : killing him would be illegal. Someone attacks you with a knife, tries to kill you and steal your money, killing him would be self defence. But you'd have to prove your life was in danger.

dunkman · February 2008

Kann wrote:

I think it is defined as proportioned :
Someone attacks you bare handed to steal your money : killing him would be illegal. Someone attacks you with a knife, tries to kill you and steal your money, killing him would be self defence. But you'd have to prove your life was in danger.

thats how you define 'reasonable'.. by 'they' I meant the CPS or the Police.

darkcrow · February 2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7266555.stm

No charges after robber's death

Mr Kilroe was stabbed with his own knife
A shopkeeper from Lancashire has been told he will not face a murder charge after a man who tried to rob him was stabbed to death with his own knife.
Liam Kilroe, 25, from Billinge, near St Helens, Merseyside, was wanted by police when he was killed in Skelmersdale on 17 February.

Police believe he was trying to rob Tony Singh, who owns the Lifestyle Express store in the Birleywood area.

The shopkeeper was arrested but later bailed pending further inquiries.

'Violent attack'

Kilroe, who had previous convictions for assault and robbery, died from a single stab wound to the chest.

Just days before the fatal incident, Lancashire Police had appealed for him to hand himself in after he failed to appear at Preston Crown Court to face armed robbery charges.

Following the announcement not to prosecute Mr Singh over the attack, Det Supt Mick Gradwell of Lancashire Police said: "This was a violent attack on Mr Singh by a convicted armed robber.

"My recommendation was that Mr Singh should not be prosecuted and I am pleased that the Crown Prosecution Service has agreed with that."

ScotInAmsterdam · February 2008

Sounds like the system worked just perfectly...

69charger · February 2008

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

sponger · February 2008

Instead of defending himself, the shopkeeper should have tried to reason with the robber and listened to what the robber had to say about the shopkeeper's unfair foreign..i mean...store policies.

Im still here · February 2008

69charger wrote:

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

hahahahahaha

and Ban spatulas while your at it, lmfao........

maybe even salad tongs.....roflmao

Anon · February 2008

69charger wrote:

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

I don't own any knives.

I just thought I'd tell you that.

I don't expect you to care enough to know why, and be interested enough to look it up if you could.

I just wanted to let you know i'm fully aware how deeply you respect the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and the protections it grants it's citizens.

I also want to let you know that when you bragged about owning an Armalite AR-50, i thought you were a tool.

I just thought I'd tell you that.

dunkman · February 2008

69charger wrote:

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

its a UK right to carry a knife.. its in some stupid 300 year old law that everyone can quote but means fuck all in todays modern world.. i mean what modern, forward-thinking, democratic nation has a stupid 'right' written down 300+ years ago that people can quote to make up for the fact the have small cocks?? anyone know of such a country??? its on the tip of my tongue.... oh well, i'll remember it in about 3 days when another 14 people are shot dead in a school somewhere.

Pegasus · February 2008

69charger wrote:

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

actually there are strict rules and you can be arrested and charge with possession of an offensive weapon:
http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

or the horses mouth: http://www.police-information.co.uk/legislation/legislationindexeng.html#K

Source: Criminal Justice Act, 1988. Section 139(1).

Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches.

Powers: Arrestable offence.

redrock · February 2008

69charger wrote:

Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

There is already legislation in the UK making it illegal for ALL to carry certain knives, though I think it is still legal to carry a folding knife (not a flick knife) with a small blade (not too sure which size) For some larger knives, you have to have a reason to carry them if you are caught/challenged. Legislation is also being tightened up with various proposals for tougher sentences for those carrying a knife as a weapon and will also cover a bigger range of knives, to include even the small blade ones.

We are trying to do something about knife crime....

EDIT: Peg got to proper links before me!

Pegasus · February 2008

elmer wrote:

I hadn't heard of this, doubt he will be charged but fuck, it wouldn't surprise me. A couple years back there was a case of a farmer called Tony Martin who shot dead one of a pair of intruders who he caught inside his home at night, turned out to be a 15year old who caught the bullet. He was sent to prison but I think due to a public and media outcry he may have been released early.

you omitted to say the burglars were unarmed and he shot the kid in the back as he was fleeing..

the disgrace is that he was released!

1970RR · February 2008

jeffbr wrote:

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.

Not quite the same, but what do you think of this:
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/02/complicated-path-led-killing-his-doorstep

It is illegal to defend yourself in the UK

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