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It is illegal to defend yourself in the UK

jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
edited February 2008 in A Moving Train
http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Just sounds like they are going through the motions to make sure they have the whole story and dont look biased. It didnt say anything about not being able to defend yourself. That would be messed up if that were the case though.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I hope that's the case. But it is obnoxious that they have to determine whether "his reaction was inappropriately severe", when the guy was fighting for his life and went to the hospital for neck and back wounds. It also said he's been released on bail which I sure hope means something else in England than it does here.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    jeffbr wrote:
    I hope that's the case. But it is obnoxious that they have to determine whether "his reaction was inappropriately severe", when the guy was fighting for his life and went to the hospital for neck and back wounds. It also said he's been released on bail which I sure hope means something else in England than it does here.

    I hear ya. That must have been one helluva fight.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    Yes, you just have to wait for the thing to be over with.

    wiki
    "A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable. "
    The way I understand it is that when you kill someone out of self defence you have to prove it was necessary.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Kann wrote:
    Yes, you just have to wait for the thing to be over with.

    wiki
    "A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable. "
    The way I understand it is that when you kill someone out of self defence you have to prove it was necessary.

    this is how i understood it... depends what they define as 'reasonable'..
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • stu geestu gee Posts: 1,174
    I dont know what i would deem as reasonable force in defending yourself from some nutter attacking you with a knife to be honest!!
    People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
  • elmerelmer Posts: 1,683
    jeffbr wrote:
    http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

    Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

    Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

    I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.
    I hadn't heard of this, doubt he will be charged but fuck, it wouldn't surprise me. A couple years back there was a case of a farmer called Tony Martin who shot dead one of a pair of intruders who he caught inside his home at night, turned out to be a 15year old who caught the bullet. He was sent to prison but I think due to a public and media outcry he may have been released early.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    dunkman wrote:
    this is how i understood it... depends what they define as 'reasonable'..
    I think it is defined as proportioned :
    Someone attacks you bare handed to steal your money : killing him would be illegal. Someone attacks you with a knife, tries to kill you and steal your money, killing him would be self defence. But you'd have to prove your life was in danger.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Kann wrote:
    I think it is defined as proportioned :
    Someone attacks you bare handed to steal your money : killing him would be illegal. Someone attacks you with a knife, tries to kill you and steal your money, killing him would be self defence. But you'd have to prove your life was in danger.


    thats how you define 'reasonable'.. by 'they' I meant the CPS or the Police.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7266555.stm

    No charges after robber's death

    Mr Kilroe was stabbed with his own knife
    A shopkeeper from Lancashire has been told he will not face a murder charge after a man who tried to rob him was stabbed to death with his own knife.
    Liam Kilroe, 25, from Billinge, near St Helens, Merseyside, was wanted by police when he was killed in Skelmersdale on 17 February.

    Police believe he was trying to rob Tony Singh, who owns the Lifestyle Express store in the Birleywood area.

    The shopkeeper was arrested but later bailed pending further inquiries.

    'Violent attack'

    Kilroe, who had previous convictions for assault and robbery, died from a single stab wound to the chest.

    Just days before the fatal incident, Lancashire Police had appealed for him to hand himself in after he failed to appear at Preston Crown Court to face armed robbery charges.

    Following the announcement not to prosecute Mr Singh over the attack, Det Supt Mick Gradwell of Lancashire Police said: "This was a violent attack on Mr Singh by a convicted armed robber.

    "My recommendation was that Mr Singh should not be prosecuted and I am pleased that the Crown Prosecution Service has agreed with that."
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  • ScotInAmsterdamScotInAmsterdam Posts: 1,004
    Sounds like the system worked just perfectly...
  • 69charger69charger Posts: 1,045
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    Instead of defending himself, the shopkeeper should have tried to reason with the robber and listened to what the robber had to say about the shopkeeper's unfair foreign..i mean...store policies.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • Im still hereIm still here Posts: 826
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

    hahahahahaha

    and Ban spatulas while your at it, lmfao........

    maybe even salad tongs.....roflmao
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  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

    I don't own any knives.

    I just thought I'd tell you that.

    I don't expect you to care enough to know why, and be interested enough to look it up if you could.

    I just wanted to let you know i'm fully aware how deeply you respect the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and the protections it grants it's citizens.

    I also want to let you know that when you bragged about owning an Armalite AR-50, i thought you were a tool.

    I just thought I'd tell you that.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!


    its a UK right to carry a knife.. its in some stupid 300 year old law that everyone can quote but means fuck all in todays modern world.. i mean what modern, forward-thinking, democratic nation has a stupid 'right' written down 300+ years ago that people can quote to make up for the fact the have small cocks?? anyone know of such a country??? its on the tip of my tongue.... oh well, i'll remember it in about 3 days when another 14 people are shot dead in a school somewhere.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • PegasusPegasus Posts: 3,754
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!
    actually there are strict rules and you can be arrested and charge with possession of an offensive weapon:
    http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

    or the horses mouth: http://www.police-information.co.uk/legislation/legislationindexeng.html#K
    Source: Criminal Justice Act, 1988. Section 139(1).

    Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches.

    Powers: Arrestable offence.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!

    There is already legislation in the UK making it illegal for ALL to carry certain knives, though I think it is still legal to carry a folding knife (not a flick knife) with a small blade (not too sure which size) For some larger knives, you have to have a reason to carry them if you are caught/challenged. Legislation is also being tightened up with various proposals for tougher sentences for those carrying a knife as a weapon and will also cover a bigger range of knives, to include even the small blade ones.

    We are trying to do something about knife crime....

    EDIT: Peg got to proper links before me!
  • PegasusPegasus Posts: 3,754
    elmer wrote:
    I hadn't heard of this, doubt he will be charged but fuck, it wouldn't surprise me. A couple years back there was a case of a farmer called Tony Martin who shot dead one of a pair of intruders who he caught inside his home at night, turned out to be a 15year old who caught the bullet. He was sent to prison but I think due to a public and media outcry he may have been released early.
    you omitted to say the burglars were unarmed and he shot the kid in the back as he was fleeing..

    the disgrace is that he was released!
  • 1970RR1970RR Posts: 281
    jeffbr wrote:
    http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Trader-says-he-killed-in.3805718.jp

    Fucking amazing. A shopkeeper is attacked by a knife wielding thug, suffers knife injuries to his neck and back. Turns the attacker's knife on the attacker and kills him with a single stab wound to the chest.

    Now the Crown Prosecution Service is trying to decide whether to charge the victim, Mr. Singh, in the death of the piece of shit who attacked him.

    I'd give Singh a medal for cleaning up the trash, but apparently the Crown would rather see him behind bars. That's some kind of fucked up place where you can't defend yourself.
    Not quite the same, but what do you think of this:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2008/02/complicated-path-led-killing-his-doorstep
  • rearviewmirorrearviewmiror Posts: 894
    Why were there lancahsire police? i thought there were only Greater Manchester (uuuggghhh) police?
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  • geniegenie Posts: 2,222
    yep it's this whole damn softly softly approach. :rolleyes: honestly they've got some unreasonable rules. i wish one of those who passed the law gets stabbed and then will see how it fucking feels like, i'm sure they won't be so when it comes to their own ass :mad:
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    1970RR wrote:
    Not quite the same, but what do you think of this:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2008/02/complicated-path-led-killing-his-doorstep

    I think if the cops announced, and the shooter actually shot through the door, then the murder charge sounds correct to me.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    69charger wrote:
    Why aren't you barbarians in the UK calling for a knife ban!?! WTF!? I mean there is no way that a knife should have gotten into the hands of someone who is clearly do mentally deranged! You need a strict system of regulation imposed upon "edged weapons".

    BAN BAN BAN!!!!!



    Let me ask both you and I'm still here a question.

    When was the last fucking time you heard of some asshole killing between 6 and 32 people with a fucking knife?


    And I'm still here, so much for your "respect for the families" huh? What happened? Couldn't find another shitty white lion song to dedicate?
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