Americanism

69charger · August 2007

RainDog wrote:

Even funnier...

I don't remember your post being a private message.

Shouldn't you be helping to clean up your town or strengthening some levees and shit?

Oh, that's right! It's George Bush's fault!

:rolleyes:

SweetHarmonics · August 2007

Hannity's monogrammed cowboy boots have got to enter into the discussion at some point.

edit - google some of his pics from the country music festival/show he does every year, words can't describe

Heineken Helen · August 2007

69charger wrote:

Shouldn't you be helping to clean up your town or strengthening some levees and shit?

Oh, that's right! It's George Bush's fault!

:rolleyes:

AHhhhhh, I see you guys have FINALLY learned sarcasm

well done!

Lol, I like that another republican senator has been caught with his pink pants down

How does it feel to be on their side 69?

RainDog · August 2007

69charger wrote:

Shouldn't you be helping to clean up your town or strengthening some levees and shit?

Oh, that's right! It's George Bush's fault!

:rolleyes:

I do clean up litter in my neighborhood - but right now I'm at work earning money to contribute to our economy. As for the levees, I'm not an engineer.

And you'll have to point me to where I said it was all George Bush's fault.

Now, shouldn't you be out further marginalizing your foothold in American politics?

Westernsky · August 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

It would seem to me that 'Americanism' should stand for the principles of American society and government. American Policy. Which is largely drafted by the constitution. It would seem then that the latter definition, the one used by the Roman Catholic church should be more accurate.

This seems to make the most sense, though I do think that there is a larger cultural element to the overall sentiment. But then again doesn't it all have to do with context? In most cases when the term is used I think it is typically referring to our country in direct relation to whatever our current administrations policy is on a given issue (occupation, invasion, embargo...).

melodious · August 2007

69charger wrote:

"Liberals Love America Like O.J. Loved Nicole"

That pretty much sums it up.

a look into oblivion:http://inteldaily.com/?c=172&a=3378

"mama don't raise your boys to be cowboys...."

Deni · August 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I used this term loosely in a discussion with Surferdude. But now I'm getting to the bottom of what it actually means.

The term Anti-Americanism is used quite frequently and is recognized as describing something in reality. However, in order for one to practice Anti-Americanism, there must be something first called Americanism.

Might Americanism be American Exceptionalism - the belief that America and Americans are inherently superior to other nations and nationalities.

Or might it refer to the definition used by the Roman Catholic church. The support of American ideals, such as absolute freedom of the press, liberalism, individualism, complete separation of church and state, etc.

Neither definition seems to work in relation to Anti-Americanism. Which tends to be used in opposition to criticism of U.S. government policies. Unless, those using the term perceive ultimate piety in the leadership of the United States. In which case the former definition of Americanism and American Exceptionalism stands to reason. However, in my experience, those that use the term Anti-American, tend to claim not for the piety of American leadership.

So, what are we really talking about?

What does "Americanism" have to do with Canada and Mexico... let alone the totality of South America? Wouldn't a more appropriate term be USAism?

Ahnimus · August 2007

Westernsky wrote:

This seems to make the most sense, though I do think that there is a larger cultural element to the overall sentiment. But then again doesn't it all have to do with context? In most cases when the term is used I think it is typically referring to our country in direct relation to whatever our current administrations policy is on a given issue (occupation, invasion, embargo...).

It's the best I can do right now.

Boy, who would have thought a thread asking for a simple coherent definition of a term could bring so much nonsensical bickering. Thanks for your input

Ahnimus · August 2007

Deni wrote:

What does "Americanism" have to do with Canada and Mexico... let alone the totality of South America? Wouldn't a more appropriate term be USAism?

I agree with you there. For ages I've referred to "America" as "the States" and it's inhabitants as "Statesmen". But, the definition is stolen.

69charger · August 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

AHhhhhh, I see you guys have FINALLY learned sarcasm well done!

Lol, I like that another republican senator has been caught with his pink pants down

How does it feel to be on their side 69?

I'm not a republican and I am not a homophobe.

Thanks for asking though!

RolandTD20Kdrummer · August 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

This is the woman whose son died in Iraq right? Am I the only one who finds it disgusting that people have come to hate her simply because she does not want other peoples kids to die such needless senseless deaths?

Unbelieveable that a woman in mourning over her child can become a hate figure!

Land of the free....free to be hateful and retarded as well unfortunately.

jamtemplechains · September 2007

anyone who utters the term 'love it or leave it' with any modicum of sincerity is as foolish as can be. does history not show amazing and inspirational coups and revolutions undertaken by people sick and tired of corrupt, unethical, or radically unjust leadership? these people didn't leave it just because they didn't love it...they changed it and made it something better. just because someone hates the direction in which their nation's policies are heading doesn't mean they hate their nation. it just means they think things should change. if you're reading this and you honestly agree with the 'love it or leave it' mentality, let's suppose our country took on entirely different leadership that pursued ideals and policies that were different from what you've--for some reason--clung onto for the past several years....are you going to keep loving your country just because it's still called america and god-forbid you say something that wouldn't make it on toby keith's final cut? or are you ACTUALLY going to ship out somewhere else because you don't 'love it' anymore? no, you'll just be on the other side of the argument, bitching about all the things wrong with this country, just like all the people are doing now who actually have legitimate reasons to be.

sponger · September 2007

The term "love it or leave it" does have its roots in ignorance, but I think there is also a justifiable point to be made through its message.

And that point is that modern liberals have an uncanny knack for complaining and finger-pointing till the cows come home, but without really having any real alternative solutions.

A fine example that comes to mind is the 2004 democratic stance for immediate withdrawal from Iraq just for the sake of winning votes. They had no real intentions of withdrawal, and they certainly wouldn't have been able to piece together a plan to do it effectively even if their lives depended on it.

Their crowd-pleasing tactics cost them the election, and it seems to be the prevailing theme for liberal political stances. They are experts at pointing out what's wrong, but they're all thumbs when it comes time to anti-up with a solution.

And that's where the "love it or leave it" expression does carry some merit. Liberal antics get the point where it seems as though they just want to bitch and cry about this that for reasons other than really having a vision for practical change.

Bu2 · September 2007

sponger wrote:

The term "love it or leave it" does have its roots in ignorance, but I think there is also a justifiable point to be made through its message.

And that point is that modern liberals have an uncanny knack for complaining and finger-pointing till the cows come home, but without really having any real alternative solutions.

A fine example that comes to mind is the 2004 democratic stance for immediate withdrawal from Iraq just for the sake of winning votes. They had no real intentions of withdrawal, and they certainly wouldn't have been able to piece together a plan to do it effectively even if their lives depended on it.

Their crowd-pleasing tactics cost them the election, and it seems to be the prevailing theme for liberal political stances. They are experts at pointing out what's wrong, but they're all thumbs when it comes time to anti-up with a solution.

And that's where the "love it or leave it" expression does carry some merit. Liberal antics get the point where it seems as though they just want to bitch and cry about this that for reasons other than really having a vision for practical change.

SOMEBODY better have a way of ending this war, and SOMEBODY better have a way of getting our troops home, and SOMEBODY better be a better President than the sorry man we have in the White House right now, before SOMEBODY gets angry enough to vote Hillary in.

jamtemplechains · September 2007

all i am saying is that a mentality of 'work to reform it or stop bitching about it' would seem a lot less stubborn and overly steadfast than 'love it or leave it.'

urbanhippie · September 2007

For those of you interested in the language of politics and politicians theres a book I recommend. 'Unspeak' by Mark Curtis shows how politicians have appropriated the language that we use and twisted it to serve their own ends. Its an enlightening read and you'll never view a news broadcast in the same way again. 'Anti-Americanism' is a term that is discussed at length along with many other so-called weasel words and phrases.

spiral out · September 2007

urbanhippie wrote:

For those of you interested in the language of politics and politicians theres a book I recommend. 'Unspeak' by Mark Curtis shows how politicians have appropriated the language that we use and twisted it to serve their own ends. Its an enlightening read and you'll never view a news broadcast in the same way again. 'Anti-Americanism' is a term that is discussed at length along with many other so-called weasel words and phrases.

Thanks for the recomendation.

Do you mean this book? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unspeak-Words-Weapons-Steven-Poole/dp/0349119244
I checked out mark curtis but he doesn't have any books called unspeak.

urbanhippie · September 2007

urbanhippie wrote:

For those of you interested in the language of politics and politicians theres a book I recommend. 'Unspeak' by Mark Curtis shows how politicians have appropriated the language that we use and twisted it to serve their own ends. Its an enlightening read and you'll never view a news broadcast in the same way again. 'Anti-Americanism' is a term that is discussed at length along with many other so-called weasel words and phrases.

DUH! Sorry peeps. 'Unspeak' is by Steven Poole and is the book I was refering too. 'Unpeople' by Mark Curtis is also a thought-provoking read but for different reasons... Sorry for confusion...

Americanism

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