anyway, Obama easily won the debate... Clinton did terrible... I think we can call it

kenny olav
kenny olav Posts: 3,319
edited March 2008 in A Moving Train
no?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    no?

    Well, i think he won tonight, Kenny, but i'm biased. She had to really score, and i don't think she did. All Obama had to do was not fuck up which is a much easier task. i don't know about calling it. For that we'll have to wait until Tuesday. How many people actually watch these things that closely and how many people are smart enough to get much from them. Its pretty sad when you use Saturday Night Live to make a point in a presidential debate.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    cornnifer wrote:
    Well, i think he won tonight, Kenny, but i'm biased. She had to really score, and i don't think she did. All Obama had to do was not fuck up which is a much easier task. i don't know about calling it. For that we'll have to wait until Tuesday. How many people actually watch these things that closely and how many people are smart enough to get much from them. Its pretty sad when you use Saturday Night Live to make a point in a presidential debate.



    i'm sorry, that just made me laugh. :p the standards, eh?


    i don't mean to make light of the situation, b/c really...it is no laughing matter. but hell yes, when you see all the mess preceeding it does make comments like 'just has to not fuck up'...all the more enjoyable. that, or it's late...and i no longer normally post at night.......:D
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    decides2dream wrote:
    i'm sorry, that just made me laugh. :p the standards, eh?


    i don't mean to make light of the situation, b/c really...it is no laughing matter. but hell yes, when you see all the mess preceeding it does make comments like 'just has to not fuck up'...all the more enjoyable. that, or it's late...and i no longer normally post at night.......:D

    It does sound a little funny, but it is really the truth. He is ahead. He has the clear momentum. She had the harder task of knocking him off course. She didn't do that. All Obama had to do was remain cool and not make any huge mistakes. He succeeded IMO.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    I think Obama faced his toughest questions last night and deflected them really well. Senator Clinton's attempt to blame the media couldn't have fallen more flat. It made her look beyond desperate for someone to blame for her campaigns ability to put together an effective campaign.

    She has no one to blame but herself, Bill, and Mark Penn for putting a horrible plan together. No plan for post February 5th? Allowing Obama to win eleven straight by an average of 33%? Not putting any resources into Wisconsin which should have been a taylor made state for the Clintons? Misusing the former President? Driving your campaign broke by paying millions of dollars for strategists and stupid charges of donuts?

    This campaign has just been one big cluster fuck, and if the campaign gives any signs as to what a Hillary Clinton White House would be like...it's no wonder she is about done.
    E8toX.gif

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  • PJ_Lukin
    PJ_Lukin Posts: 2,055
    It looks like the vast right wing conspiracy will have a new target soon. Hillary is fading, she still has a chance, but she is on the ropes and taking a pounding.

    Obama vs. McCain, could there be two more contrasting candidates? Diametrically different on almost every aspect of Government.
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  • anotherclone
    anotherclone Posts: 1,688
    ledvedderman wrote:

    This campaign has just been one big cluster fuck, and if the campaign gives any signs as to what a Hillary Clinton White House would be like...it's no wonder she is about done.

    You know, I think this same way. :)

    I listen to a local talk radio guy that asked a question on my behalf to one of the political correspondents of CNN in their daily talk. I asked:

    "at some point, is someone going to point out that her campaign is in disarray in numerous areas. (People leaving, low on cash/making loans to herself, losing 10 states in a row, can't focus on one personality for herself). As a candidate for President, can't we look to her campaign as an indication of how she might run the White House?"

    the CNN correspondent said "that is an excellent point. Too bad the minds of most people in America don't think that way".

    I felt smart for about 10 seconds. :p
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    anotherclone wrote:
    You know, I think this same way. :)

    I listen to a local talk radio guy that asked a question on my behalf to one of the political correspondents of CNN in their daily talk. I asked:

    "at some point, is someone going to point out that her campaign is in disarray in numerous areas. (People leaving, low on cash/making loans to herself, losing 10 states in a row, can't focus on one personality for herself). As a candidate for President, can't we look to her campaign as an indication of how she might run the White House?"

    the CNN correspondent said "that is an excellent point. Too bad the minds of most people in America don't think that way".

    I felt smart for about 10 seconds. :p

    Its true. People don't tend to think that way and its really pretty sad. i think back to an earlier debate when Obama sincerely mentioned that he tends to misplace papers, and hillary jumped all over that saying he lacks managerial aptitude needed to be president. Well, if one analyzes the management of the two respective campaigns, it becomes very obvious that its HER managerial skills that are TRULY sad. Its crazy how horrible she has managed her campaign. Obama on the other hand has done very well managing his. People don't notice this kind of stuff, yet they get fired up when someone says Obama doesn't wear a flag on his lapel. Sad.
    All that being said, there is a lot of talk about hillary being in the position she's in due to a poorly managed campaign, and there is definitely something there. i think however that it is being understated that Obama is just a better candidate. Her campaign has indeed been a "cluster fuck", but i would like to see Obama recieve some credit for his success and not just as the beneficiary of a clinton failure.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • boxwine_in_hell
    boxwine_in_hell Posts: 1,263
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    no?

    It's official she's his biotch now.
    one foot in the door
    the other foot in the gutter
    sweet smell that they adore
    I think I'd rather smother
    -The Replacements-
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    cornnifer wrote:
    Her campaign has indeed been a "cluster fuck", but i would like to see Obama recieve some credit for his success and not just as the beneficiary of a clinton failure.

    I agree with you. She has managed a terrible campaign. I really hope that Mark Penn is paying close attention to what David Ploufe and David Axelrod have been doing for Obamas campaign.

    I read an article the other day where it was talking about how organized the Obama campaign was in Texas on February 6th. They were telling their supporters about the prima-caucus that Texas uses and finding ways to not only get their supporters to the polls in the morning, but to the caucus at night. It's that type of campaigning and organization that wins elections. The Clinton camp had no post Super Tuesday plan, and it will cost them the nomination.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • brain of c
    brain of c Posts: 5,213
    well, i got to cast my vote for a woman presidential candidate in the primary.......it looks like i'll get to vote for a black american male in the big show.
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    brain of c wrote:
    well, i got to cast my vote for a woman presidential candidate in the primary.......it looks like i'll get to vote for a black american male in the big show.



    I'm going WMA on my ballot. :D
    Walking can be a real trip
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  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    i'm not calling it until after Ohio and Texas.

    I havent understood how Clinton has made it this far, but she keeps suprising me
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    MrSmith wrote:
    i'm not calling it until after Ohio and Texas.

    I havent understood how Clinton has made it this far, but she keeps suprising me

    If she wins Texas and Ohio, she's right back in it. I don't think she will, but the polls are close in both states.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    slightofjeff wrote:
    If she wins Texas and Ohio, she's right back in it. I don't think she will, but the polls are close in both states.

    well she really has to dominate to have a shot at the title. winning isnt enough now. if she barely wins, she wont get enough delegates to catch Obama.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    MrSmith wrote:
    well she really has to dominate to have a shot at the title. winning isnt enough now. if she barely wins, she wont get enough delegates to catch Obama.

    good point. She's fuckin' toast.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • boxwine_in_hell
    boxwine_in_hell Posts: 1,263
    MrSmith wrote:
    i'm not calling it until after Ohio and Texas.

    I havent understood how Clinton has made it this far, but she keeps suprising me

    In my best Tony Montana accent....

    "She's a fucking cockaroach."
    one foot in the door
    the other foot in the gutter
    sweet smell that they adore
    I think I'd rather smother
    -The Replacements-
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    MrSmith wrote:
    well she really has to dominate to have a shot at the title. winning isnt enough now. if she barely wins, she wont get enough delegates to catch Obama.
    What you say is true, however, the rub is that if manages even to barely squeak by in both states, she'll fight all the way to the convention and try to steal the nomination. In order for this thing to officially be over, she has to lose at least one of these states. Texas is starting to look bad for her (good for the rest of us).
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    All the polls in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania show Obama closing the gap at a astounding pace.

    The average poll right now is about a 5 point lead for Clinton. That isn't enough to gain but maybe one or two delegates out of that state. Obama has a very small lead in Texas right now, but if she somehow manages to win the popular vote he could still walk away with a couple more delegates. Pennsylvania is a state where Obama seems to be gaining VERY quick. A month ago she was up 20, and now it is right around 5. That election isn't until April 22. That lead for Clinton wouldn't make it another 2 weeks w/ the money and resources that Obama could pump into that state.

    With the trend in the polls and the Superdelegates starting to show how they will be heading, if Clinton doesn't win Texas and Ohio both next week, then this thing is over. Not only does she need the popular vote, but she needs to come out with a commanding advantage of the delegates from those two states. To do that she would have to win with somewhere around 60% of the vote, and I don't see any way of that happening.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    cornnifer wrote:
    What you say is true, however, the rub is that if manages even to barely squeak by in both states, she'll fight all the way to the convention and try to steal the nomination. In order for this thing to officially be over, she has to lose at least one of these states. Texas is starting to look bad for her (good for the rest of us).

    Are you including the delegates from Michigan and Florida in your calculations? Because you just know those will magically end up counting if they secure Hill-Bill the nomination.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Are you including the delegates from Michigan and Florida in your calculations? Because you just know those will magically end up counting if they secure Hill-Bill the nomination.

    True. Just another reason why a "close call" in Texas or Ohio will not be enough to kill the wicked witch. A loss in Texas or Ohio, and she's done. There is not much disputing that, even from her camp. Not even from her finger wagging, sperm shooting husband. Two wins in those states, even by the smallest of margins, however, and she will be emboldened enough to pull some crazy shit like sue for those delegates to be seated, strong arm super delegates, and generally destroy her party to ensure she achieves what she believes to be her manifest destiny.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."

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