Taxes, taxes, taxes...

Get_Right · September 2008

unsung wrote:

Obama supports the estate tax, that alone is enough for him not to get my vote.

and an increase in captial gains tax

we have to cut the fat and

when is the tea party? we pay more now than the colonists did

jeffbr · September 2008

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Over the last few years come tax season I can't help but notice the incentive programs the financeers are giving out for our tax refunds.
Bring your tax refund out to our car dealership or to our bank and get our special deal on financing on that new vehicle or downpayment on that new home.

Is this the tax money everyone is afraid to lose?

The money that makes people feel rich enough for a few days to buy that home or car that they really can't afford?

Seems to me that too many tax breaks are the crux of the problems we are experiencing now.

You have the entire thing completely ass backwards, and the government is happy about that. They hope everyone thinks like you do. You consider a tax break as something the government gives to you. You consider a refund something the government gives to you. WRONG! It is your money. They just decided not to use all of it. And refunds are the biggest scam for a different reason. You've given the government your money interest free when it should have been working for you. If you get big refund checks you're doing something wrong.

Too many tax breaks are the crux of the problem?!? Jesus Christ, I've heard some wacky shit in my time, and this one definitely goes into the wacky shit bin.

JonnyPistachio · September 2008

unsung wrote:

Obama supports the estate tax, that alone is enough for him not to get my vote.

You seem very adamant about this. I dont know much about it...without a copy paste, what is the issue here? is it something that he will change? I've never heard Obamas position on this.

NeilJam · September 2008

meistereder wrote:

Do your research people. This notion of Obama taxing working class people more is a fallacy right out of the Republican handbook of half-truths and lies. It's simply not true.

Yeah, but every election Republicans still trot out the over used "tax and spend liberal" label, which unfortunately still sticks in some peoples minds even if it is incorrect.

Kind of like how every 4 years Republicans scream that the Democratic candidate is gonna take your guns so they can get the redneck vote.

digster · September 2008

JonnyPistachio wrote:

You seem very adamant about this. I dont know much about it...without a copy paste, what is the issue here? is it something that he will change? I've never heard Obamas position on this.

Basically, Obama plans to keep the estate tax as it is now, but he would not repeal the estate tax entirely, as was planned to make permanent by the Bush administration in their tax policy starting in the year 2010. What unsung didn't mention was that Senator McCain does not support a repeal of the estate tax either; he wants the estate tax to be 15%. The CNN money article above details it all pretty exhaustively. As usual, it's not as simple as "Obama wants to raise taxes, while McCain wants to cut them!"

One question I have, though; in the article, it says this, speaking about McCain's estate tax plan:

"McCain's plan would be a more dramatic departure from current policy. The Arizona Senator favors a 15% tax rate, equal to the capital-gains tax rate, and an individual exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples)."

What does that second part mean? "An individual exemption of $5 million." Does that refer to income, i.e. those who make over that amount would be exempt from the tax? I don't think it could be that simple, but I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. Someone better versed with this language, please help me out.

jeffbr · September 2008

digster wrote:

One question I have, though; in the article, it says this, speaking about McCain's estate tax plan:

"McCain's plan would be a more dramatic departure from current policy. The Arizona Senator favors a 15% tax rate, equal to the capital-gains tax rate, and an individual exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples)."

What does that second part mean? "An individual exemption of $5 million." Does that refer to income, i.e. those who make over that amount would be exempt from the tax? I don't think it could be that simple, but I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. Someone better versed with this language, please help me out.

The exemption basically means that estates valued under $5 million are exempt from the estate tax, and for larger estates the tax kicks in above the exemption.

I'm generally opposed to estate taxes on the grounds that everything has already been taxed when it was owned by the original owner, wether we're talking about the property taxes they paid, the sales tax they paid to purchase items in the estate, excise taxes on value of vehicles in many states, various taxes on gains in investment accounts over the years as that part of the estate grew, and on and on. Everything in the estate has already been taxed, and then when it is probated the lucky recipient gets to allow the government to double-dip. On principle it is complete bullshit, but most people seem OK with it be for some reason (maybe because it doesn't affect them?).

polaris · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Military personel don't pay taxes when they are deployed, and they will have made more money in six months then you and me in two years.

I'm voting for McCain

i think he's referring to the soldiers who have died for this imperialistic war

in any case - at the end of the day, your average voter is pretty much ignorant of most things related to gov't ... it is why attack ads work in an election and fear mongering is so successful ... cuz most people eat that shit up ...

saveuplife · September 2008

_outlaw wrote:

to those who think taxes are more important than foreign policy, I don't care if this gets me banned, but go fuck yourselves.

First, why do you have to go there, man? I just don't get that.

Second, taxes are important to me because the economy is important to me. The President has two ways he can alter the economy.... Fiscal (taxes and spending) and appointing Monetary Chair (Ben). I don't think Ben's leaving anytime soon, so the next President will control the economy through taxes and spending. If the economy is important to you, then that will be important to you.

I understand that people may think foreign policy is more important that the domestic economy. They are entitled to that opinion. I just don't agree with it right now.

Lastly, I'll be honest, I'm scared that if Obama gets in he'll throw a higher tax rate at those making $140K and up. I know he's saying he won't. But, that was Kerry's plan. And I, personally, think Obama will switch to that once elected. If he does, that will hit me and my wife hard and yes that will also piss me off because I already pay plenty.

Strangest Tribe · September 2008

jeffbr wrote:

You have the entire thing completely ass backwards, and the government is happy about that. They hope everyone thinks like you do. You consider a tax break as something the government gives to you. You consider a refund something the government gives to you. WRONG! It is your money. They just decided not to use all of it. And refunds are the biggest scam for a different reason. You've given the government your money interest free when it should have been working for you. If you get big refund checks you're doing something wrong.

Too many tax breaks are the crux of the problem?!? Jesus Christ, I've heard some wacky shit in my time, and this one definitely goes into the wacky shit bin.

Well, I can tell by your response here you have no real life experience with taxes. You must be a college student or kid. A tax break IS something the government gives to you. LOL

It's never simple to judge your refund when you own a home, have a second mortgage, have a family, or have interest bearing finances.

Most middle class and higher families don't file 1040ez they line item deductions to lower what they owe.

The more money you make, or the more property you own, OR the more money you owe, OR the more children you have etc. etc. etc.....can give you larger refunds....

They know it's their money to begin with. That's no revelation... and most people realize it's their money.... but that's not the point anyway...

The point is when these people get large refunds from numerous tax breaks when they file their taxes ... then only to turn around and be swayed by the financeers to make dumb financial moves ... only further make the problem worse financially....

digster · September 2008

saveuplife wrote:

First, why do you have to go there, man? I just don't get that.

Second, taxes are important to me because the economy is important to me. The President has two ways he can alter the economy.... Fiscal (taxes and spending) and appointing Monetary Chair (Ben). I don't think Ben's leaving anytime soon, so the next President will control the economy through taxes and spending. If the economy is important to you, then that will be important to you.

Fair points, but if these are the ways that the President stabilizes the economy, how do you explain the sorry state of the economy that has been on a downward spiral for the past four to five years? I understand that some of it is beyond Bush's control, but much of it is due to his tax policy, and his unwillingness to cut spending. McCain, besides his talk of earmarks (which account for 16 billion dollars of the annual budget; we will spend more than that in Iraq over the course of the next two months), does not seem to be talking too much of spending, and when it is it's mostly talk. Also, how do you explain the pinch the middle class felt under Reagan, when a similar economic plan was introduced that had similar effects?

It seems that, for all the talk of Democratic policies from the Executive branch hurting the economic stability of the country, the economy thrived under the last Democratic eight-year run and stumbled during the two eight-year blocks of Republican leadership that bookended Clinton's two terms.

jeffbr · September 2008

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Well, I can tell by your response here you have no real life experience with taxes. You must be a college student or kid. A tax break IS something the government gives to you. LOL

Wrong and wrong. Firstly, I'm a few years older than you are. I've started companies, taken companies public, paid way more than my fair share of taxes. A tax break isn't something the government gives me. A tax break means the government steals less of my money. Get it straight. Your viewpoint is exactly why the govermnent feels like they can keep on taking.

Strangest Tribe wrote:

It's never simple to judge your refund when you own a home, have a second mortgage, have a family, or have interest bearing finances.

Most middle class and higher families don't file 1040ez they line item deductions to lower what they owe.

The more money you make, or the more property you own, OR the more money you owe, OR the more children you have etc. etc. etc.....can give you larger refunds....

They know it's their money to begin with. That's no revelation... and most people realize it's their money.... but that's not the point anyway...

The point is when these people get large refunds from numerous tax breaks when they file their taxes ... then only to turn around and be swayed by the financeers to make dumb financial moves ... only further make the problem worse financially....

Yawn. Maybe you need a new accountant if you can't predict year in and year out what your refund situation is going to look like. You should be pretty close except on off years when a non-standard event occurs.

And if people use their money to do stupid things, that is their problem. That doesn't mean that tax breaks are the problem. That means those individuals are the problem. I still claim your thinking is completely backwards on this one.

Cosmo · September 2008

know1 wrote:

Taxes are a big issue for me. I cannot support higher taxes for anyone in any way, shape or form.

...
Figure out how much you will owe in taxes... give that amount to the charitable cause of your choosing... write off the charitable amount on your 2008 Tax Forms.
Done... no more fucking crying.

floyd1975 · September 2008

If there were not automatically withheld from paychecks for a majority of people in this country, there would probably be a massive uprising every quarter when the middle and lower middle class got their tax bill.

Cosmo · September 2008

It is the spending.
Like, for example... if you want to buy a war... and that war costs $1 Trillion over 5 years... and you don't have $1 Trillion in your pocket... you have to raise $1 Trillion.
How you can cut the raising of that money... by giving us tax breaks... I don't get. It still costs $1 Trillion. Someone has to pay for it, right?
and since we are all crying about 'My taxes... my taxes...' then, the $1 Trillion bill gets passed on to your kids... make them pay.
What happened to all that 'Personal Responsibility' crap? Palming off our bill to our kids is personal responsibility?
...
Cut the SPENDING and only pay for things you can afford... if the roads go into disrepair.. or bridges collapse due to no maintenance... oh well... as long as I get to keep my hard earned pay for myself... the world is good. Money... MY money is the most important thing in the world to me. Screw everyone else.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

polaris wrote:

i think he's referring to the soldiers who have died for this imperialistic war

in any case - at the end of the day, your average voter is pretty much ignorant of most things related to gov't ... it is why attack ads work in an election and fear mongering is so successful ... cuz most people eat that shit up ...

Yep, I'm dumb as shit, I eat it all up and don't ask questions.

Vote McCain 08

Strangest Tribe · September 2008

jeffbr wrote:

Wrong and wrong. Firstly, I'm a few years older than you are. I've started companies, taken companies public, paid way more than my fair share of taxes. A tax break isn't something the government gives me. A tax break means the government steals less of my money. Get it straight. Your viewpoint is exactly why the govermnent feels like they can keep on taking.

Yawn. Maybe you need a new accountant if you can't predict year in and year out what your refund situation is going to look like. You should be pretty close except on off years when a non-standard event occurs.

And if people use their money to do stupid things, that is their problem. That doesn't mean that tax breaks are the problem. That means those individuals are the problem. I still claim your thinking is completely backwards on this one.

Well then if you're so tax savvy why are you playing so dumb? If you don't think the upper middle class and the wealthy don't squeeze the system with every legal and illegal means they can to avoid paying taxes then you are so naive.

The legal I have no problem with other than we need to change some laws. We need to stop 2nd mortgages and home improvement credit nonsence from being such an easy tax deduction. That's part of the housing market problem, it became too easy for people making less than $100,000 per year to buy million $ homes. Yes, because of tax breaks on bridge loans and second mortgages....all given to people who had no business trying to move into the gated communities and hobnob with the wealthy.

But I still think you're twisting my original argument.

know1 · September 2008

Cosmo wrote:

...
Figure out how much you will owe in taxes... give that amount to the charitable cause of your choosing... write off the charitable amount on your 2008 Tax Forms.
Done... no more fucking crying.

Really? Is that how it works? Who does your taxes?

I was under the impression that the money that you give to charity reduces your tax liability by that amound - i.e. it essentially reduces your income. You don't get it back dollar for dollar.

Cosmo · September 2008

know1 wrote:

Really? Is that how it works? Who does your taxes?

I was under the impression that the money that you give to charity reduces your tax liability by that amound - i.e. it essentially reduces your income. You don't get it back dollar for dollar.

...l
Then give more to your charities so you break even.
Done... quit crying.

know1 · September 2008

Cosmo wrote:

...l
Then give more to your charities so you break even.
Done... quit crying.

I might be wrong, but I think it's mathematically impossible to do that....or if you can you'd have to give almost all of it to charity.

Cosmo · September 2008

know1 wrote:

I might be wrong, but I think it's mathematically impossible to do that....or if you can you'd have to give almost all of it to charity.

...
Then, DO IT!!!
..then you can quit crying.

Taxes, taxes, taxes...

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