Norman Finkelstein - Hezbollah, the Honor of Lebanon
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_outlaw wrote:
I've seen this. You really can't argue around it without being a flat out hypocrite.
Mostly why he was arrested upon entering Israel just months ago.
Sssshhh!!! it's supposed to be a secret Norman....you're not allowed to spread common sense like that...now you must be silenced.
and yes....very well put.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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It really worries me how the anti-semitism is growing on this board. (And no, I don't differentiate between anti-semitism and anti-zionism)MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL0 -
You expect ethnic cleansing to be popular?hailhailkc wrote:It really worries me how the anti-semitism is growing on this board. (And no, I don't differentiate between anti-semitism and anti-zionism)0 -
who here is anti-semitic? who here has said anything against Jews or Jewish people as a whole? who here is condemning a people rather than a system of oppression?hailhailkc wrote:It really worries me how the anti-semitism is growing on this board. (And no, I don't differentiate between anti-semitism and anti-zionism)
honestly, I don't expect you to answer any of these questions. most people here have no problem making wild accusations without backing anything up.0 -
Are you ready to hear the truth that Hezbollah (thanks to foreign funding) is co-responsible for the political destabilization of the country and one of the main reasons why Lebanon doesn't have a government that really represents the lebanese people interests rather than those of its neighbours? Serious shit went down in Lebanon a few months ago, and (for once, I agree) it wasn't Israel's fault._outlaw wrote:nah, ignorant people would rather not hear the truth.
So let's not get blinded by only one problem as other people are also suffering.0 -
the 'political destabilization'? Hezbollah represents a large amount of the Lebanese people. they have many, many supporters. Just because the Western-backed government in Lebanon isn't willing to accept the legitimacy of the group does not mean that it is Hezbollah's fault for what has occured in Lebanon. Keep in mind, also, that while it's not ISRAEL'S personal fault, the other government in Lebanon was backed by the West, including the U.S. and France.Kann wrote:Are you ready to hear the truth that Hezbollah (thanks to foreign funding) is co-responsible for the political destabilization of the country and one of the main reasons why Lebanon doesn't have a government that really represents the lebanese people interests rather than those of its neighbours? Serious shit went down in Lebanon a few months ago, and (for once, I agree) it wasn't Israel's fault.
So let's not get blinded by only one problem as other people are also suffering.
Also, keep in mind that the only reason Hezbollah came to power was Israel's 18-year occupation of Lebanon.0 -
I actually used "political destabilization" because the Shia is the largest community in Lebanon. But when you have political party who shakes the power by armed assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_unrest_in_Lebanon#Armed_clashes) while being under a UN resolution (http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sc8181.doc.htm), "political destabilization" is more of a euphemism._outlaw wrote:the 'political destabilization'? Hezbollah represents a large amount of the Lebanese people. they have many, many supporters. Just because the Western-backed government in Lebanon isn't willing to accept the legitimacy of the group does not mean that it is Hezbollah's fault for what has occured in Lebanon.
What's the difference between a government backed by the US and France and one backed by Syria and Iran? It still isn't the people's voice.Keep in mind, also, that while it's not ISRAEL'S personal fault, the other government in Lebanon was backed by the West, including the U.S. and France.
I know, and I find it legitimate for a resistance movement to grow under occupation. However Hezbollah is not a resistance movement anymore, it's an armed political party which defends Lebanon in case of aggression by Israel and also kills fellow Lebanese if they disagree politically and/or confessionaly.Also, keep in mind that the only reason Hezbollah came to power was Israel's 18-year occupation of Lebanon.0 -
Nevermind wrote:You expect ethnic cleansing to be popular?
you mean what the israeli's are doing to the palestinians? it seems pretty popular to some around here...standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way0 -
what does the shia sect being a large community have to do with political destabilization? and why do you only say Hezbollah led to "destabilization" but the pro-western govt didn't?Kann wrote:I actually used "political destabilization" because the Shia is the largest community in Lebanon. But when you have political party who shakes the power by armed assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_unrest_in_Lebanon#Armed_clashes) while being under a UN resolution (http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sc8181.doc.htm), "political destabilization" is more of a euphemism.
you seem to ignore the fact that Hezbollah has the support of many people in Lebanon...What's the difference between a government backed by the US and France and one backed by Syria and Iran? It still isn't the people's voice.
that's a lie. they don't kill people if they disagree politically, and confessionaly is not even a word.I know, and I find it legitimate for a resistance movement to grow under occupation. However Hezbollah is not a resistance movement anymore, it's an armed political party which defends Lebanon in case of aggression by Israel and also kills fellow Lebanese if they disagree politically and/or confessionaly.0 -
hailhailkc wrote:It really worries me how the anti-semitism is growing on this board. (And no, I don't differentiate between anti-semitism and anti-zionism)
Not to mention of glorification of Islamic fundamentalism.0 -
Kann wrote:I know, and I find it legitimate for a resistance movement to grow under occupation. However Hezbollah is not a resistance movement anymore, it's an armed political party which defends Lebanon in case of aggression by Israel and also kills fellow Lebanese if they disagree politically and/or confessionaly.
Agreed. And I'd add that Hezbollah fits standard definitions of a terrorist group, even if the word "terrorist" is an overused buzzword.0 -
El_Kabong wrote:you mean what the israeli's are doing to the palestinians? it seems pretty popular to some around here...
Bullshit. I have never seen someone on here seriously claim that Israel has the right to kill innocent Palestinians.0 -
people have justified it, and you seem to not even know what 'ethnic cleansing' means, seeing as how it doesn't necessarily mean to kill.reborncareerist wrote:Bullshit. I have never seen someone on here seriously claim that Israel has the right to kill innocent Palestinians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing0 -
not one person here has shown any anti-semitism or any of these baseless lies.reborncareerist wrote:Not to mention of glorification of Islamic fundamentalism.0 -
oh? how are they terrorists?reborncareerist wrote:Agreed. And I'd add that Hezbollah fits standard definitions of a terrorist group, even if the word "terrorist" is an overused buzzword.
apparently fighting against an occupation means you're a terrorist? a legitimate resistance group can also become a political group, but it does not make it a 'terrorist group'.0 -
_outlaw wrote:not one person here has shown any anti-semitism or any of these baseless lies.
People are too smart to be overt about it, this place is all about subtlety. The audience around here is also smart enough to notice, though. Sure, there's no overt kudos to the fundamentalists on here. The thing is, its hard not to fill in the blanks with some of these posts. Quite frankly, no one wants to read some extremist opinion piece cheerleading Hezbollah. Maybe I am overgeneralizing. I don't want to read it. The reality of these situations is so much more complex than anything these propagandists can write, but certain posters on here revel in this shite.
Why don't you just write a balanced piece on the situation in Lebanon, if your view truly is balanced? If you're view is not balanced, then stop trying to pretend it is.0 -
By the way, "-isms" are grounded to a large extent in individual perception. In this day and age, some people seem "-isms" everywhere, and some people selectively apply the concept ... At the end of the day, though, everyone's threshold for getting offended differs. Honestly, my view is that the constant barrage of anti-Israel pieces on here treads an extremely fine line. There is just enough room left for plausible denial, but enough of a pattern to cause some to at least wonder about anti-Semitism. That's all. Take it or leave it. It needed to be said, though.0
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