GM Files for bankruptcy

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Comments

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the problem with GM isn't that hey built SUV's - the reality is and JLew is right on this front - americans WERE buying SUV because americans have been spoiled by the low cost of gas - even when it skyrocketed - the price of gas in america was just what it was like for the rest of the world years ago ... america has always subsidized the car culture - from roads, gas, and such ...

    the problem ultimately is that the model is based on people continuing to buy new cars every 4 or 5 years ... a model that extends beyond automobiles ... many retailers of all sorts are suffering - they don't have union workers either ... it is only because america has always funded the car in every way is it being bailed out now ...
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    polaris_x wrote:
    the problem ultimately is that the model is based on people continuing to buy new cars every 4 or 5 years ... a model that extends beyond automobiles ... many retailers of all sorts are suffering - they don't have union workers either ... it is only because america has always funded the car in every way is it being bailed out now ...

    Along with that model disappearing, also gone is the idea that a car consumer is a "GM Guy" or a "Ford Guy" where a young guy starting out will start out buying a Chevy and work his way up with the goal of eventually buying a Buick or a Cadillac. That kind of brand loyalty is totally gone with current generations (who will buy something that they like no matter who makes it, so you don't have those guaranteed sales just because of the brand name on the car. I bought a new car a few years ago and test drove a bunch of different manufacturers before I decided I wanted a Honda Fit. Next time I buy a car I will do the same thing, I won’t automatically stick with Honda just because my current car was a Honda.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    polaris_x wrote:
    the problem with GM isn't that hey built SUV's - the reality is and JLew is right on this front - americans WERE buying SUV because americans have been spoiled by the low cost of gas - even when it skyrocketed - the price of gas in america was just what it was like for the rest of the world years ago ... america has always subsidized the car culture - from roads, gas, and such ...

    the problem ultimately is that the model is based on people continuing to buy new cars every 4 or 5 years ... a model that extends beyond automobiles ... many retailers of all sorts are suffering - they don't have union workers either ... it is only because america has always funded the car in every way is it being bailed out now ...
    the market isn't decided by the consumer, not in todays' capitalism. the market is decided by the corporations.

    they were selling us gas hogs and BIG trucks, right before gas prices got out of hand (no accident). every other car commercial was about some new giant truck or suv they were trying to shove at us.

    but something rare happened, in this case, market principles actually crept into play, the market figured itself out. people slowly realized they didn't want the big giant trucks and gas guzzlers,, and started buying more fuel efficient cars, they couldn't afford the big fuckers anymore.

    GM didn't care, they did what they always did, they spent more money on marketing. rather than offer a product worth buying they tried shape our opinions about their shitty ones already on the lot.

    in this case the market is figuring itself out,which I think is rare in todays' capitalism.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:

    its not a list. its you and jlew. i was expecting some kind of link to a mainstream source suggesting labor costs ruined GM. from what i've been reading about the bankruptcy, (aside from a few opinions on this board) labor costs weren't responsible for failing to put out an electric alternative to Japan. Labor costs weren't responsible for marketing the giant SUV's to death, trying to force something on us that we didn't want. Labor didn't ship tens of thousands of jobs overseas, (management did), ensuring no one could afford the product. and so on. most of what brought down GM was attributed to management.

    labor built GM, they sure as hell didn't bring it down.

    try to grasp this concept...Labor costs were a FACTOR in the demise of GM. one of several factors. get it? please say yes and maybe you can start to understand why.

    GM could no longer afford to pay its obligations to the UAW. and since the UAW was not willing to make the necessary cuts, GM was forced into bankruptcy to void the contracts

    you're point is labor has to be paid?

    that's not a concept there buddy, that's the obvious part of running a business.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:

    its not a list. its you and jlew. i was expecting some kind of link to a mainstream source suggesting labor costs ruined GM. from what i've been reading about the bankruptcy, (aside from a few opinions on this board) labor costs weren't responsible for failing to put out an electric alternative to Japan. Labor costs weren't responsible for marketing the giant SUV's to death, trying to force something on us that we didn't want. Labor didn't ship tens of thousands of jobs overseas, (management did), ensuring no one could afford the product. and so on. most of what brought down GM was attributed to management.

    labor built GM, they sure as hell didn't bring it down.

    try to grasp this concept...Labor costs were a FACTOR in the demise of GM. one of several factors. get it? please say yes and maybe you can start to understand why.

    GM could no longer afford to pay its obligations to the UAW. and since the UAW was not willing to make the necessary cuts, GM was forced into bankruptcy to void the contracts

    you're point is labor has to be paid?

    that's not a concept there buddy, that's the obvious part of running a business.

    I meant high labor costs. thought you might have been able to get that part. obviously not :roll:
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    did americans really start buying more fuel efficient cars or did they just stop buying cars?
  • All5horizons1991
    All5horizons1991 Posts: 138
    polaris_x wrote:
    did americans really start buying more fuel efficient cars or did they just stop buying cars?

    I think we just stopped buying cars...recession. Demand faded. This article is from a few months back.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-03-05-used-hybrids_N.htm
    I can't teach common sense.

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