The Panama Deception

Options
1…89101214

Comments

  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats all you people ever fall back on is this south America nonsense. take that asshole Chavez out of the mix, South America is doing just fine.

    There's nothing wrong with Chevez, other than he doesn't toe Americas line. And as far as 'South America nonsense' do you know anything about the overthrow of President Allende of Chile? Do you know anything about the Contras of Nicaragua, or the U.S overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, the democratically-elected President of Guatemala in 1954? Do you know what really happened during the U.S invasion of Panama?

    yea, I know all about it. and like I said, South America is doing just fine. expect for that asshole Chavez who has single handedly drove that country into the ground. newsflash, socialism doesn't, especially when you plan your economy on 90% of oil being @ $150 a barrel. its closer to 60 today...and thats a 4 month high.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You forgot to mention that on the same morning that day when the bodies of U.S Apache pilots were being dragged through the streets those same pilots had been massacring civilians taking part in a peacefulo demonstration. Do you regard that as animalistic behaviour?

    whatreallyhappened.com ?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do some fucking research before embarrass yourself. opps too late.

    Ah, o.k Jlew, thanks for the advice.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    U.S. / Afghan/ taliban relations from 1991 to 2001, in an easy to read format for those with ADD :

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... nePolitics
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You forgot to mention that on the same morning that day when the bodies of U.S Apache pilots were being dragged through the streets those same pilots had been massacring civilians taking part in a peacefulo demonstration. Do you regard that as animalistic behaviour?

    whatreallyhappened.com ?

    Nah, I was at home that morning watching Sky News and I watched the early reports of U.S Apache helicopters firing on a demonstration and killing dozens of civilians. Later that same day this story was shelved in favour of the fact that some Americans were killed.

    I'm sure I could find a dozen respected News sources online which support this fact, but then so could you if you made the effort.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    flywallyfly wrote:
    U.S. / Afghan/ taliban relations from 1991 to 2001, in an easy to read format for those with ADD :

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... nePolitics

    :lol:

    Edit: Thanks, I'll check it out.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    we were attacked. we were at risk of more attacks. sorry, but time to negotiate ended when they attacked FIRST.

    The old '9/11 was year zero' angle. Of course, the U.S had not interfered in the Middle East in any way whatsoever prior to 2001.

    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Actually the way to protect U.S citizens is to stop your unconditional support of Israel. Also, prior to 2001 you were directly responsible for the deaths of half a million Iraqi children with your sanctions,

    the United Nations voted on sanctions which were a direct action based on YOUR beloved UN security counsel resolutions. you only support those when it best suits you eh?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    along with a daily ten year bombing campaign of Iraq which some people choose to forget.

    nope, I remember. they were all military targets.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    The U.S had also stood back and allowed the Muslims of Bosnia and Chechnya to be slaughtered.

    wait wait wait. are you daming the US for NOT getting involved in a Muslim military conflict? I'll soul own you on this one. its gonna be good. please respond to him.
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Unfortunately for America some people in the world took notice of these things.

    Americans are actually very informed about our history and involvement around the world. some choose not to be and thats fine. but most of us know. trust me, I live here and now alot more then you in this regard. just becuase you have (limited) access to the internet, maybe BBC on TV, and have been here a few times to visit, makes you lightyears behind in knowing the pulse of America and its citizens.

    but I'm sure you get alot of comfort thinking you can just paint all of America with your own brush 8000 miles away and think its all fact.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Byrnzie wrote:
    flywallyfly wrote:
    U.S. / Afghan/ taliban relations from 1991 to 2001, in an easy to read format for those with ADD :

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... nePolitics

    :lol:

    Edit: Thanks, I'll check it out.

    It's worth a read - as with most wars, there is much more to the reasoning than most ever hear about (or care to).
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.

    Nevermind the millions of innocent civilians who died at the hands of this 'U.S interference' overseas prior to 9/11.

    jlew24asu wrote:
    the United Nations voted on sanctions which were a direct action based on YOUR beloved UN security counsel resolutions. you only support those when it best suits you eh?

    along with a daily ten year bombing campaign of Iraq which some people choose to forget.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    nope, I remember. they were all military targets.

    Sure they were Jlew:

    http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=354

    The "secret" war which has seen a 300 per cent increase in bombing raids on Iraq
    20 Dec 2002

    'From August to December, there were 62 attacks by American F-16 aircraft and RAF Tornadoes - an average of one bombing raid every two days. These are said to have been aimed at Iraqi "air defences", but many have fallen on mostly populated areas, where civilian deaths are unavoidable...

    The US and British governments justify it by claiming they have a UN mandate to police so-called "no-fly zones" which they declared following the Gulf War. They say these "zones", which give them control of most of Iraq's airspace, are legal and supported by UN Security Council Resolution 688.

    This is false. There are no references to no fly zones in any Security Council resolution. To be sure about this, I asked Dr Boutros Boutros-Ghali, who was Secretary General of the United Nations in 1992 when Resolution 688 was passed. "The issue of no fly zones was not raised and therefore not debated: not a word," he said. "They offer no legitimacy to countries sending their aircraft to attack Iraq."

    In 1999, Tony Blair claimed the no fly zones allowed the US and Britain to perform "a vital humanitarian task" in protecting the Kurds in the north of Iraq and the ethnic Marsh Arabs in the south. In fact, British and American aircraft have actually provided cover for neighbouring Turkey's repeated invasions of northern, Kurdish Iraq...

    The term "combat" is highly deceptive. Iraq has virtually no air force and no modern air defences. Thus, "combat" means dropping bombs or firing missiles at infrastructure that has been laid to waste by a 12-year-old embargo.

    The Wall Street Journal, the authentic voice of the American establishment, described this eloquently when it reported that the US faced "a genuine dilemma" in Iraq. After eight years of enforcing a no fly zone in northern (and southern) Iraq, few targets remain. "We're down to the last outhouse," one US official protested.

    I have seen the result of these attacks. When I drove from the northern city of Mosul three years ago, I saw the remains of an agricultural water tanker and truck, riddled with bullet holes, shrapnel from a missile, a shoe and the wool and skeletons of about 150 sheep.

    A family of six, a shepherd, his father and his wife and four children, were blown to pieces here. It was treeless, open country: a moonscape. The shepherd, his family and his sheep would have been clearly visible from the air.

    The shepherd's brother, Hussain Jarsis, agreed to meet me at the cemetery where the family is buried. He arrived in an old Toyota van with the widow, who was hunched with grief, her face covered. She held the hand of her one remaining child, and they sat beside the mounds of earth that are the four children's graves. "I want to see the pilot who killed my children," she shouted across to us.

    The shepherd's brother told me, "I heard explosions, and when I arrived to look for my brother and family, the planes were circling overhead. I hadn't reached the causeway when the fourth bombardment took place. The last two rockets hit them.

    "At the time I couldn't grasp what was going on. The truck was burning. It was a big truck, but it was ripped to pieces. Nothing remained except the tyres and the numberplate.

    "We saw three corpses, but the rest were just body parts. With the last rocket, I could see the sheep blasted into the air."

    It was not known if American or British aircraft had done this. When details of the attack were put to the Ministry of Defence in London, an official said, "We reserve the right to take robust action when threatened." This attack was significant, because it was investigated and verified by the senior United Nations official in Iraq at the time, Hans Von Sponeck, who drove there specially from Baghdad.

    He confirmed that nothing nearby resembled a military installation.

    Von Sponeck recorded his finding in a confidential internal document entitled, "Air Strikes in Iraq", prepared by the UN Security Section (UNOHCI).

    HE also confirmed dozens of similar attacks and these are documented - attacks on villages, a fishermen's wharf, nearby a UN food warehouse. So regular were the attacks that Von Sponeck ordered UN relief convoys suspended every afternoon.

    FOR this, Von Sponeck, a senior United Nations civil servant with a distinguished career all over the world, made powerful enemies in Washington and London.

    The Americans demanded that Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General, sack him and were surprised when Annan stood by his chief representative in Iraq.

    However, within a few months, Von Sponeck felt he could no longer run a humanitarian programme in Iraq that was threatened both by the illegal bombing and by a deliberate American policy of blocking humanitarian supplies.

    He resigned in protest, just as his predecessor, Denis Halliday, a Deputy Under Secretary of the UN, had done. Halliday called the US and British-driven embargo "genocidal"...'


    jlew24asu wrote:
    wait wait wait. are you daming the US for NOT getting involved in a Muslim military conflict? I'll soul own you on this one. its gonna be good. please respond to him.


    I'm damning the U.S for sitting back and allowing the people of Bosnia and Chechnya to be slaughtered. No contradiction there. You didn't invade Afghanistan or Iraq to help the people of those countries.

    jlew24asu wrote:
    Americans are actually very informed about our history and involvement around the world.

    Sure Jlew, maybe this is why 51% of Americans believe that Sadaam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. Maybe it's also why 99% of Americans haven't got a fucking clue what their country did in Panama in 1989. Yep, very informed.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea yea yea, thats all you people ever fall back on is this south America nonsense. take that asshole Chavez out of the mix, South America is doing just fine. well I guess you can blame Columbia's problems partly on us due to our huge coke demand. but that has nothing to do with the US government.

    the fact that youve singled out chavez shows just how ignorant you are to what is actually going on in south america at the moment.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.

    you reap what you sow im afraid and its quite often the innocent who pay the price. none of the people who died on, or because of 9/11 deserved to die. and this is what i dont understand about people who support war... its never the people who are to blame who pay, IT IS ALWAYS the innocent. and until those responsible are held accountable, the innocent will continue to pay and we will sit here and continue to bicker about mindnumbing bullshit.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Everyone should watch this:

    The War on Democracy
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9629840148
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea yea yea, thats all you people ever fall back on is this south America nonsense. take that asshole Chavez out of the mix, South America is doing just fine. well I guess you can blame Columbia's problems partly on us due to our huge coke demand. but that has nothing to do with the US government.

    the fact that youve singled out chavez shows just how ignorant you are to what is actually going on in south america at the moment.

    hi, who the fuck are you? please tell me, what is "going on in south america at the moment" Chavez is the only asshole on the continent that is causing problems.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.

    Nevermind the millions of innocent civilians who died at the hands of this 'U.S interference' overseas prior to 9/11.

    so Americans got what it deserved?

    jlew24asu wrote:
    the United Nations voted on sanctions which were a direct action based on YOUR beloved UN security counsel resolutions. you only support those when it best suits you eh?

    along with a daily ten year bombing campaign of Iraq which some people choose to forget.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    nope, I remember. they were all military targets.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sure they were Jlew:

    like I said, military targets
    Byrnzie wrote:

    I'm damning the U.S for sitting back and allowing the people of Bosnia and Chechnya to be slaughtered. No contradiction there. You didn't invade Afghanistan or Iraq to help the people of those countries.

    the US didnt allow anything. do the people committing the genocide hold any responsibility in that warped head of yours? or is everything the US's fault from the start. and had the US stepped in, you'd be the first to be yelling about "US interference"
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sure Jlew, maybe this is why 51% of Americans believe that Sadaam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. Maybe it's also why 99% of Americans haven't got a fucking clue what their country did in Panama in 1989. Yep, very informed.

    its so fun to make up numbers that suit your needs eh? what a joke. you aren't American. you have no fucking clue what we know or dont know.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.

    you reap what you sow im afraid and its quite often the innocent who pay the price. none of the people who died on, or because of 9/11 deserved to die. and this is what i dont understand about people who support war... its never the people who are to blame who pay, IT IS ALWAYS the innocent. and until those responsible are held accountable, the innocent will continue to pay and we will sit here and continue to bicker about mindnumbing bullshit.

    we reap what we sow huh? which was what exactly?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Everyone should watch this:

    The War on Democracy
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9629840148

    is google video blocked in China?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    in other words, the US deserved what it got on 9/11? grow a pair of balls and just say it.

    bottom line is none of those people deserved to die, or our buildings destroyed. those are innocent civilians that had no part in "US interference" oveseas.

    you reap what you sow im afraid and its quite often the innocent who pay the price. none of the people who died on, or because of 9/11 deserved to die. and this is what i dont understand about people who support war... its never the people who are to blame who pay, IT IS ALWAYS the innocent. and until those responsible are held accountable, the innocent will continue to pay and we will sit here and continue to bicker about mindnumbing bullshit.

    we reap what we sow huh? which was what exactly?

    earlier you said this jlew:
    Americans are actually very informed about our history and involvement around the world. some choose not to be and thats fine. but most of us know. trust me, I live here and now alot more then you in this regard....

    so... seeings how it would seem you are including yourself in those americans that are informed, i would expect you to already know what it is your government has gotten up to around the world. id expect you to know that not everyone shares washingtons enlightened view of freedom and democracy and how that is achieved. and id expect you to not only know why that is so, but also to at least understand why that is so. therefore id also expect you to know what it is your government has been reaping for their people all these years.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    who the fuck are you?

    And it just goes on...and on...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    who the fuck are you?

    And it just goes on...and on...

    hey look its the MT Policeman. who dont you police your yes men? I've seen more personally insulting remarks by them, and you. but you are now on some moral high ground right?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    like I said, military targets

    Actually it wouldn't surprise me to learn that you regard farmers herding flocks of sheep, and UN food warehouses, as military targets.

    jlew24asu wrote:
    what a joke. you aren't American. you have no fucking clue what we know or dont know.

    And you have your finger on the pulse of America?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:

    so... seeings how it would seem you are including yourself in those americans that are informed, i would expect you to already know what it is your government has gotten up to around the world. id expect you to know that not everyone shares washingtons enlightened view of freedom and democracy and how that is achieved. and id expect you to not only know why that is so, but also to at least understand why that is so. therefore id also expect you to know what it is your government has been reaping for their people all these years.

    doesnt matter what I know or dont know. I'm asking you a direct question based on your comment. so whenever your ready let me know.

    you are becoming worse then Byzine at dodging questions.

Categories