HOT OFF THE PRESS...Would love a good discussion

LOITERINGLOITERING Posts: 120
edited April 2009 in The Porch
…The thing I fell in love with Pearl Jam was the anti-establishment. F*** the ____ attitude (could be reciprocated for whoever you wanted) that permeated the songs. The sound, the passion, that came from the early days made everyone fall in love. No one falls in love with Avocado and then becomes a fan of Yield. Their best days have passed (being relevant… not musically). They still put on the best show, and as long as they play I’ll be there. But, as far as speaking up for the average Joe, those days are gone. It’s time to call it what it is……a corporate rock band.

When you want more than you have, you think you need…and when you think more than you want, your thoughts begin to bleed. I think I need to find a bigger place…cause when you have more than you think, you need more space.

$80 a ticket for a show…please. Are you telling me they take a loss when all 5 of they play for the same price (not knocking the show…it’s great). I just want them to call a spade a spade. It makes me love the music no less…it’s great. It’s time to get over the “We’re with you mantra” (and yes I can afford the ticket).

Vote Obama…No War…”Send more troops to Afghanistan…raise my taxes (and all working Americans...not now but we'll pay for it eventually) to pay for those less fortunate”. Life’s tough. Move somewhere else if it is so bad. Good luck in the future.

-Calling it like I see it…one of the many people keeping silent while Ed brainwashes you.

God knows I love the music though...haha
10/02/04 - Toledo, OH
09/12/05 - London, ON
05/19/06 - Grand Rapids, MI
06/27/08 - Hartford, CT; 06/28/08 - Mansfield, MA
08/21/08 - Chicago, IL (EV); 08/22/08 - Chicago, IL (EV)
10/07/09 - Los Angeles, CA; 10/09/09 - San Diego, CA
05/06/10 - Columbus, OH; 05/07/10 - Noblesville, IN
06/26/11 - Detroit, MI (EV)
10/12/13 - Buffalo, NY
10/16/14 - Detroit, MI
08/20/16 - Chicago, IL; 08/22/16 - Chicago, IL
08/13/18 - Missoula, MT
09/02/23 - St. Paul, MN
08/26/24 - Noblesville, IN; 8/31/24 - Chicago, IL

Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • La MeninaLa Menina Posts: 30
    Who is being brainwashed?

    I've got a Pearl Jam ticket on my desk with my name on it that cost $20 from the last time they played a field in Austin. I'm going to pay a lot more to see them there in a few months (festival or not), but I wouldn't expect it to be the same price 14 years later.

    I'm not sure how loosely you are using the "corporate rock band" phrase here, but it's likely they have been that since you fell in love with them (major label distribution and what not). I don't necessarily think their core attitude has changed much as a band, but you also have to remember that they never claimed to be Fugazi. And there is nothing wrong with that. It is not wrong to want to live comfortably off of your art.
    Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. . .
    PJsiggie.jpg
  • LOITERINGLOITERING Posts: 120
    Thanks for the reply. I don't expect a Fugazi, but it seems to me they've come a far way from the anti-ticketmaster days. I guess it leaves a little bitter taste in my mouth when Ed in charging $80 a ticket when the band charges the same (there's enough threads devoted to this). I'm just saying...to me...they've lost they're niche...speaking up for the fans...maybe I was mistaken....I guess I've been jaded. Like I said, call a spade a spade. I'm all for capitalism, but it seems the country as a whole is Socialism...soon to be on our way to Communism. Just don't be afraid to say that you're out to make bank...that's what we're all trying to do anyways?
    10/02/04 - Toledo, OH
    09/12/05 - London, ON
    05/19/06 - Grand Rapids, MI
    06/27/08 - Hartford, CT; 06/28/08 - Mansfield, MA
    08/21/08 - Chicago, IL (EV); 08/22/08 - Chicago, IL (EV)
    10/07/09 - Los Angeles, CA; 10/09/09 - San Diego, CA
    05/06/10 - Columbus, OH; 05/07/10 - Noblesville, IN
    06/26/11 - Detroit, MI (EV)
    10/12/13 - Buffalo, NY
    10/16/14 - Detroit, MI
    08/20/16 - Chicago, IL; 08/22/16 - Chicago, IL
    08/13/18 - Missoula, MT
    09/02/23 - St. Paul, MN
    08/26/24 - Noblesville, IN; 8/31/24 - Chicago, IL

  • La MeninaLa Menina Posts: 30
    Don't even start me on Pearl Jam and jaded,... I live in Texas. ;)

    I know where you are coming from, though. It's sometimes hard to reconcile the current price of a concert ticket when I can so vividly remember Stone and Jeff being sworn in before congress to testify about ticketmasters monopoly practices.
    The thing is I honestly don't think they are trying to gouge fans. If they wanted to they could be charging astronomical prices for their tickets like all of the other "big" acts out there.
    Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. . .
    PJsiggie.jpg
  • LOITERINGLOITERING Posts: 120
    I agree...they should charge what they can get anyway. Those of us that don't get our 10C tickets for the shows end up usually paying Stubhub prices anyway..the band should get the money. I just don't like that they are still trying to be there for the every day person...Sure we'll help save a newspaper comic if Ed says so...but what about the rest of us...really...is a comic artist that important. Get in touch.
    10/02/04 - Toledo, OH
    09/12/05 - London, ON
    05/19/06 - Grand Rapids, MI
    06/27/08 - Hartford, CT; 06/28/08 - Mansfield, MA
    08/21/08 - Chicago, IL (EV); 08/22/08 - Chicago, IL (EV)
    10/07/09 - Los Angeles, CA; 10/09/09 - San Diego, CA
    05/06/10 - Columbus, OH; 05/07/10 - Noblesville, IN
    06/26/11 - Detroit, MI (EV)
    10/12/13 - Buffalo, NY
    10/16/14 - Detroit, MI
    08/20/16 - Chicago, IL; 08/22/16 - Chicago, IL
    08/13/18 - Missoula, MT
    09/02/23 - St. Paul, MN
    08/26/24 - Noblesville, IN; 8/31/24 - Chicago, IL

  • dreamweaverdreamweaver New York Posts: 721
    I learned this from a great teacher of mine... Everyone has a choice in life.


    vedder's shows may be expensive but you are not considering raised prices of all the services. Not so much vedder raising his profit. Take it for what it is. These are Eddie Vedder Solo shows, Not Pearl Jam Shows. They are also high in demand in a bad economy. Prices, unfortunately, will be raised.
    Meadowlands, MSG 1, MSG 2 - '98
    Jones Beach NY 1 + 3 - '00
    MSG 1 + 2 - '03
    Boston Garden - '04
    Montreal - '05
    Boston Garden 1, Meadowlands 1 + 2 - '06
    Mansfield 1 - '08
    (EV solo) Boston 1 - '08
    Chicago 1 - '09
    MSG -'10
    Brooklyn 1+2 - '13
    Central Park - '15
    MSG - '16
    Fenway - '16
    Wrigley - '16
    (RRHOF) Brooklyn - '17
    Fenway - '18
    MSG - '22
    MSG 1 - '24
  • pearljam7pearljam7 Posts: 447
    Call me someone who always sticks up for the band no matter what, but i disagree with you. I think at this moment they are maybe the most 'relevant' they've been yet. The 2008 summer tour was just great, they weren't touring an album or promoting anything. They played shows for the fans, and i think that tour took them to another level. Perhaps they are aging rock stars, but that happens. I am sure they are doing the best they can to keep the prices low, but no one is going to LOSE money putting on a tour. I just bought a 102$ ticket to see Neil tomorrow in Denver, and although I'm a little pissed about the price I'm not calling Neil Young a corporate rock whore, that man will sell his soul to the devil before ever truly selling out, Ed and the guys are no different.
    5/4/2006, 5/12/2006, 5/13/2006, 6/1/2006, 6/3/2006, 6/24/2008, 6/25/2008, 6/27/2008, 6/30/2008, 8/4/08, 8/5/08, 8/7/08
  • I'm all for capitalism, but it seems the country as a whole is Socialism...soon to be on our way to Communism.

    Turn off the talk radio and form some original, non-paranoid thoughts. Go to China, go to Venezuala, and tell me we're heading to communism. Hell, I would be for more China, censorship, on this board, and have the mods delete posts that go down this anti-pj, pj sold out road. Please don't go to anymore pj, ed shows. Put your money where your mouth is and don't support a band that you are so dismayed by, and please stop filling up fanboards with a bunch of pussy slaps.
  • pj.uw.laurapj.uw.laura Posts: 553
    Let's not forget the fact that Ed plays small venues for an intimate feel. If he was playing to 15,000, I'm sure tickets would be cheaper than they are for a 1,000-2,000-person show.
  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    In case you havent realized, ticket prices for concerts are way up for EVERY band, not just Pearl Jam.

    I'm pay EIGHTY DOLLARS to see INCUBUS.......INCUBUS. Incubus isnt anywhere near as famous as PJ is.
    5/28/06, 6/27/08, 10/28/09, 5/18/10, 5/21/10
    8/7/08, 6/9/09
  • 3legged dog3legged dog Posts: 896
    :twisted:

    This statement here scares me:

    Turn off the talk radio and form some original, non-paranoid thoughts. Go to China, go to Venezuala, and tell me we're heading to communism. Hell, I would be for more China, censorship, on this board, and have the mods delete posts that go down this anti-pj, pj sold out road. Please don't go to anymore pj, ed shows. Put your money where your mouth is and don't support a band that you are so dismayed by, and please stop filling up fanboards with a bunch of pussy slaps.[/quote]
    In my lifetime, I have conquered the Multiverse by force of trUth.
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Your viewpoint about your lack of excitement lately is completely understandable. PJ's music "rescued" my ears from purgatory. I'm not dismissing everything that was on the radio, but if you go back and look at a few billboard top 40 lists which lead up to August of '91 it should become apparent to what I am referring (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/yearend_chart_display.jsp?f=The+Billboard+200&g=Year-end+Albums&year=1991 and http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/yearend_chart_display.jsp?f=The+Billboard+Hot+100&g=Year-end+Singles&year=1991). I find it virtually unimaginable that people could not accurately differentiate between PJ's passion and talent when they first debuted and the other "entertainment" on the radio at the time.

    The best way I can put it is that the album Ten is the sound of an incredibly talented band going for absolute broke. They wore their hearts on their sleeves not understanding how much the music they were producing would resonate with other people. In hindsight I think this is kind of foolish, but completely understandable. After playing in complete and semi-obscurity for so long how could the band members collectively, or as individuals, anticipate the drastic success they achieved in a few short months. To me the clear answer is that they couldn't. But isn't it curious and telling that they didn't think such a large number of people would be able to relate to the music they were making? Did they really think that they were the only ones who could relate to the musical and lyrical subject matter on Ten? Judging by their reaction (pulling back from the spotlight completely), the answer is "Yes." To a large degree I find it arguable that the willfully subdued passion PJ has released since is the difference between the Ten/Vs. era and everything after.

    I hypothesized about PJ's business model a bit in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95384) but I think you're talking more specifically about their touring model and the differences between the pricing for a solo-show ticket versus a full-band ticket. I think the common price ($80) can be reasonably explained by understanding the economies of scale at work. They have probably hit upon a common price that allows them to cover all costs of touring as individuals and as a band. Since its a business, this price also allows them to profit by a reasonable amount. Not an exorbitant amount, but a reasonable amount. (They quite clearly are not The Rolling Stones or The Police. This reasonable amount allows them to live their lives as artists who do not work 9 or more hours a day 5 or more days a week when they are not touring or recording.) When PJ tours they will lug more than five times more equipment and probably require more than five times more support staff to enable their tour. To compensate for this increase in needed logistical support and its related costs, PJ plays venues anywhere from 5 to 10 times larger than the venues that eV will play on a solo tour. PJ is fortunate enough to do this successfully because they know that they will sell out each venue they schedule. So, you can multiply the face value of a ticket by the number of seats in a venue to get an estimate, but don't forget to divide by the number of people the profit is split between after subtracting up-scaled costs.

    The band's promoted politics are a different matter. As listeners we are free to listen or to not listen to songs on the albums we purchase. Simply hitting fast forward or skip means I don't have to listen to "Bu$hleaguer" ever again. (Although in this case I don't skip it because I disagree with the politics of the song, I skip it because I think it's a bad song and I don't enjoy listening to it. No offense to those who do enjoy it.) We have the freedom to ignore the things we choose so I find no fault in the band promoting issues it finds worth while or important.

    Have you considered that you no longer need PJ to provide the voice and articulation for you that it used to? I think this is a reasonable way to talk about half of the equation. (The equation being: PJ + The Listener = The Experience.) To me there is no doubt that the band has modified its approach to writing and recording to get away from the electrifying but formulaic songs of Ten. That' s the PJ variable of the equation. I also recognize that I'm no longer of considerable youth. Since '91 I've managed to develop considerably more complex and informed world views. My ability to express myself is more efficient and robust. As a result I no longer look to art forms to express things which I cannot do myself. (No offense teenagers ;) ) That's the Listener variable of the equation. While this equation analogy is little esoteric I think this demonstrates the point I'm trying to get across. Any time you change one variable in an equation the answer (the Experience variable) comes out different (no matter how sleight). Consider now that two of the variables have changed. The answer won't be slightly different any more. The answer must be different by a more significant margin. That to me sums up the difference in experience which you are describing now. The values of the equation have changed in front of us. Relevance IS subjective, no? While PJ's best days may have passed for you, I think there are many more people who will have many more "best days" when they discover PJ's work in the future.

    I am not immediately drawn to lyrics. I prefer the melodies going on underneath. PJ's instrumental music used to consistently be as passionate and full of energy as they vocals. I think it is fair to say that the band has made a conscious effort to include more laid back material post-Ten then I would've imagined. I'll go on record as saying that when you have a writing team as competent and talented as Gossard, Ament, and McCready, it is a mistake to purposely hinder their process. A BIG mistake. But PJ chose to do it and they're still going after close to 20 years. Not a bad track record and although I completely disagree with it, I do respect it.

    I think we look back fondly because those were exciting times to be a listener. PJ's music was new, energetic, expressive, and on top of it all extremely well written. It was part of OUR experience. We took ownership of that fact and wore it as a badge of honor. But over time our listening experiences have changed (as has the band's thesis) and we miss the feeling we used to get by identifying so closely with their music. We don't need PJ's music to express ourselves any more, but we do want it to hold the same value it did when we first identified with it. Since it probably never will though, it feels like "those days are gone."
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • nukebootnukeboot Posts: 1,465
    Let's not forget the fact that Ed plays small venues for an intimate feel.

    Exactly.

    Ed isn't getting a huge payout from these shows. And given how many of them have sold
    out, he could be charging more.
    EdSurfingSig_zpsgmyltito.jpg
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me...
  • BASECASEBASECASE Posts: 31
    You've actually got the ticket price thing completely backwards. The cost of doing a large venue show is only a fraction of the cost per seat of a small venue show. I've worked with the stage hands union for large venue shows and also worked for several years at a small venue Performing Arts Center, so this is not my opinion, this is a fact. And what is your definition of corporate rock? Being successful musicians who make a decent living doesn't make them corporate rock. Bands like Nickelback are corporate rock. Corporate rock bands write songs that are aimed specifically at radio playability and usually rewrite their hit songs over and over again in a slightly different way. In other words they have a formula or recipe so to speak for writing "hits". If PJ was like this every album would have sounded like TEN, which is something they specifically tried not to do. In addition, I don't think they are any less for the average person than they were in the beginning. I think Ed's "Brainwashing" as you call it is all about standing up for the average Joe. Have you really listened to what he has to say, or are that annoying guy in the crowd that keeps yelling stupid shit every time he tries to talk? Like somebody else said, put your money where your mouth is and stay home.
  • BASECASEBASECASE Posts: 31
    Apparently HeavyHands and I were writing our response at the same time. My response is addressed to the original post.
  • Evil BeaverEvil Beaver Posts: 84
    edited April 2009
    This is what urks me, LOITERING.

    You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're complaining that tickets for Ed's shows are priced too high at the same time you're echoing this right-wing garbage about America heading toward socialism. You're contradicting yourself.

    If high ticket prices bother you, then maybe you don't believe in capitalism as you say. Maybe you would prefer a communist system where prices for just about everything are controlled by the state government.

    Ticket prices are one of the most accurate reflections of a free-market system. The supply and demand dictate the prices, so if Ed sells his solo shows for $10, they will be resold at their real market value, which may be several hundreds of dollars. Ticket brokers, Stubhub opportunists and other scalpers — even some cash-strapped 10 Club members — would be making all the profit off of Ed's performance simply by selling his artificially low-priced tickets for their real market value. $80 probably isn't even it.

    Before you complain about socialism or Ed brainwashing his fans, turn off the talk radio, the Faux News and take a good hard look in the mirror. You anti-Obama tea baggers contradict yourselves every time you open your mouth. The political discourse in this country has been lowered to a debate between REALITY vs. PURE NONSENSE.
    Post edited by Evil Beaver on
  • pjfan021pjfan021 Posts: 684
    I respect your opinion however lIke previously stated, I would say bands like Nickelback and Creed are more coorporate rock acts. 80 dollars for a show nowdays doesn't suprise me especially when it's a high quality act in an intimate venue. Sure, I'm sure there are bands out there playing small places and charging maybe 35-40 a ticket but they haven't been doing it for 20 years, aren't as good as an ed show, and definitely don't have any sponsors behind it unlike a lot of acts nowadays that have companies like visa and levis sponsoring their tours wich cuts down on their expenses and allows them to lower ticket prices. I justify the cost because for me it's worth $80 to have two hours of pure musical enjoyment. I've pissed away more money in a night at the bar so i'm cool with it. I think your complaints are kind of hypocritcal if you're going to attend...Make the decision...Is it too much or no?
  • keyser_sozekeyser_soze London, England Posts: 205
    LOITERING wrote:
    …The thing I fell in love with Pearl Jam was the anti-establishment. F*** the ____ attitude (could be reciprocated for whoever you wanted) that permeated the songs. The sound, the passion, that came from the early days made everyone fall in love. No one falls in love with Avocado and then becomes a fan of Yield. Their best days have passed (being relevant… not musically). They still put on the best show, and as long as they play I’ll be there. But, as far as speaking up for the average Joe, those days are gone. It’s time to call it what it is……a corporate rock band.

    When you want more than you have, you think you need…and when you think more than you want, your thoughts begin to bleed. I think I need to find a bigger place…cause when you have more than you think, you need more space.

    $80 a ticket for a show…please. Are you telling me they take a loss when all 5 of they play for the same price (not knocking the show…it’s great). I just want them to call a spade a spade. It makes me love the music no less…it’s great. It’s time to get over the “We’re with you mantra” (and yes I can afford the ticket).

    Vote Obama…No War…”Send more troops to Afghanistan…raise my taxes (and all working Americans...not now but we'll pay for it eventually) to pay for those less fortunate”. Life’s tough. Move somewhere else if it is so bad. Good luck in the future.

    -Calling it like I see it…one of the many people keeping silent while Ed brainwashes you.

    God knows I love the music though...haha

    80 dollars sounds like very reasonable price to me....

    I paid 85 euro to see neil young... thats around 130 dollars.... same price to see metallica....
    www.facebook.com/PandoraApparel
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    You lost me with your Fox News/Rush Limbaugh anti-Obama rhetoric. :lol:
  • skyeriverwinterskyeriverwinter Posts: 1,894
    edited April 2009
    ...
    Post edited by skyeriverwinter on
  • hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,902
    If you let a rock singer tell you about politics than you are part of the problem, not the solution. Sure Ed has been informative on many issues, but that doesn't mean he knows shit about any of them. Seriously if Ed is your voice of authority on real life issues.... when was the last time he was living in the real world. Try as he may to look like he lives a pauper life he is stinking rich, and has anything he wants at his disposal.

    Try listening to real political analysts, educated in the field, then maybe you'll get unbiased fact. I am not talking about foxnews either.

    Try Michael Savage or Levine, they will tell you the real truth. Our country has been stripped from under us and sold off to the highest bidders. Our country has been pimped out to oil countries and China.

    that all being said I still love most of his rants, and I do appreciate him trying to get us to get our heads out of our asses in our own way, and to find out the facts ourselves.

    My point- don't Go to a guy who sings and plays guitar for your world news and views

    And on the other issues of corp. rock...well I know one thing, the days of them fighting the system seem to be long gone, for good and bad. Prices for tickets cannot stay the same from 15 years ago, they have bigger crew, different stage setups etc. And when you tour less like they do nowadays they need to make up the loss in quantity with high prices. Shit costs more, they do more on their end without the machine totally behind them now. We as the most greedy and needy fans alive always want/need more so that is going to cost money too! Think about all the stuff we get offered to us between downloads, posters, merch, reissues, vinyl

    again we are all as much a part of the problem as anything.

    it isn't even worth getting upset over anymore....my friends welcome to the machine you are cog number 345
  • hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,902
    The statement about Obama...the man has done more for our country and it's people in the last three months than the last administration had done in 8 years...maybe your income level well exceeds mine...that may be why we see things differently...

    can you list some of this please, I would love to hear what he's done other than spend a shit load of all our money and get all palsy with people who openly want our country to be destroyed.
  • OceansMagnetOceansMagnet Posts: 1,033
    Politics aside (this is a rock band music forum, right?) $80 is quite a fair price. We are getting the opportunity to see an honest to God rock legend in an extremely rare intimate theatre setting. Keep in mind that these ticket sales now make up the bulk of an artists livelihood. Record sales are at an all-time low. Noone can make a living off of record sales anymore. Not to mention that now most contracts with promoters, venues, and even labels and distribution companies are taking a percentage of ticket sales AND merch.. It is not at all the same industry it was 15 years ago when artists sold 15 million records and could do tickets at $20 a pop.
  • skyeriverwinterskyeriverwinter Posts: 1,894
    edited April 2009
    ...
    Post edited by skyeriverwinter on
  • OceansMagnetOceansMagnet Posts: 1,033
    I tried to be nice and ignore the politics.. I will now make the same lame-assed statement that all you republicans made when Ed was criticizing dubya in '03. "Even if you disagree with him you should respect him for the office he holds" So now can we just drop the political arguing and get back to the goddamn music??
  • NewJPageNewJPage Posts: 3,312
    hrd2imgn wrote:

    Try listening to real political analysts, educated in the field, then maybe you'll get unbiased fact. I am not talking about foxnews either.

    Try Michael Savage or Levine, they will tell you the real truth.

    this is a joke, right?
    6/26/98, 8/17/00, 10/8/00, 12/8/02, 12/9/02, 4/25/03, 5/28/03, 6/1/03, 6/3/03, 6/5/03, 6/6/03, 6/12/03, 6/13/03, 6/15/03, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/22/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03, 10/3/04, 10/5/04, 9/9/05, 9/11/05, 9/16/05, 5/16/06, 5/17/06, 5/19/06, 6/30/06, 7/23/06, 8/5/07, 6/30/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/4/10, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/11/13, 10/17/14, 8/20/16
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