"The shotgun used is designed for children"

meme

What
the
fuck
?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090222/ap_ ... _killed_13

Motha Judson

This isn't going to be another scared of guns thread is it? Whats the difference of what weapon he used, the act is wrong, not the shotgun.

Heineken Helen

Motha Judson wrote:

This isn't going to be another scared of guns thread is it? Whats the difference of what weapon he used, the act is wrong, not the shotgun.

a shotgun designed for kids... not wrong?????????? :shock: It absolutely IS... put a killing machine in the hands of KIDS... sick sick sick.

yoke

What is the difference in gun sizes? I learned to shoot with a Winchester 22 rifle and a .38 Revolver. Both guns are small and I could handle them when I was 7 with no problems. I didn't use a shotgun until I was a little older, maybe 9.



This has nothing to do with the size of the gun but the act itself and the fact that the kid went on his merry way like he did nothing wrong, thats the problem.

Motha Judson

Heineken Helen wrote:

Motha Judson wrote:

This isn't going to be another scared of guns thread is it? Whats the difference of what weapon he used, the act is wrong, not the shotgun.

a shotgun designed for kids... not wrong?????????? :shock: It absolutely IS... put a killing machine in the hands of KIDS... sick sick sick.

It may seem odd to you if you didn't grow up that way. Most of the people I know (me included) don't own guns for the sole purpose of killing people. I grew up shooting, never went hunting, but liked going to the range to shoot with my family. The only way a shot gun was made for children would be a shorter length, and maybe some added safety. Would you still be upset if he killed the same people with a knife or something else?

DeLukin

Motha Judson wrote:

Would you still be upset if he killed the same people with a knife or something else?

Yes, I would, but if having that kind of access to a gun made it easier for him to kill that woman then there is something wrong here beyond the boy's mental state. Would he have killed her if he only had a knife? Would he have broken into his fathers gun cabinet to do it? I guess we'll never know, 'cause apparently all he had to do was go get his own shotgun which apparently was readily available to do it. I think the issue here for me is how easy it was for him to act on his jealousy. Very scary.

Motha Judson

So the question really should be weapon security? Because I don't think a gun "made for children" is really the issue. Thats just me...

Anon

Kids hunt. Deal with it. Should they use a 12 gauge made for adults? The OP is trying to make it sound like manufacturers are designing killing tools for children.

Another long winded blame the gun thread. Hilarious.

soulsinging

JB811 wrote:

Kids hunt. Deal with it. Should they use a 12 gauge made for adults? The OP is trying to make it sound like manufacturers are designing killing tools for children.

Another long winded blame the gun thread. Hilarious.

What is a gun if not a killing tool? That is its purpose.

I do think it's weird they have guns designed for kids... do we have "kid cars"? They should learn by observation and when they have grown up and learned not to do things like impulsively kill people, they can get their own gun. But even accepting guns designed for children, why did the kid have access to it on his own? If you've got a pint sized shotgun so your kid can go hunting with you, that doesn't mean he should be able to grab it whenever he wants without your permission.

I'll be curious to see what other info comes out of this... I want to say the kid is fucked up, but I fear he's no different from any other kid and this is just another example of hos desensitized we have become.

Heineken Helen

Motha Judson wrote:

Heineken Helen wrote:

Motha Judson wrote:

This isn't going to be another scared of guns thread is it? Whats the difference of what weapon he used, the act is wrong, not the shotgun.

a shotgun designed for kids... not wrong?????????? :shock: It absolutely IS... put a killing machine in the hands of KIDS... sick sick sick.

It may seem odd to you if you didn't grow up that way. Most of the people I know (me included) don't own guns for the sole purpose of killing people. I grew up shooting, never went hunting, but liked going to the range to shoot with my family. The only way a shot gun was made for children would be a shorter length, and maybe some added safety. Would you still be upset if he killed the same people with a knife or something else?

Of course I would... however, don't most people keep knives AWAY from kids :shock: or is that a concept that we only believe in in Ireland? So why keep knives away from them for their and our safety if we're gonna hand them something that can blow somebody's fucking brains out??? :shock: :roll: Kids are not responsible enough to drive, to drink, even to go to war yet... so why are they responsible enough to hold a gun? I thought kids with guns was something exclusive to African war torn countries? And then it's always sad to see.. why is it ok when the kid is white/american?

DeLukin

Motha Judson wrote:

So the question really should be weapon security? Because I don't think a gun "made for children" is really the issue. Thats just me...

I agree 100%.

blackredyellow

Motha Judson wrote:

So the question really should be weapon security? Because I don't think a gun "made for children" is really the issue. Thats just me...

exactly...

Having a gun designed for smaller shooters isn't a problem... you can legally hunt in PA at age 12, and having a 12 year old try to handle a gun that is too big/heavy is incredibly unsafe.

The issue is, why was this gun accessible to the kid? I grew up in a family were my dad and relatives hunted, so I hunted as well. I had a rifle that I used, but it was locked up with the rest of my dad's guns. Just because the gun was "mine" didn't mean that I could use it whenever I wanted. While the kid is definitely to blame for the act of shooting, the dad should be charged for not securing the gun in the first place. If we held parents accountable for this, a lot of these home shootings wouldn't occur.

Motha Judson

Heineken Helen wrote:

Of course I would... however, don't most people keep knives AWAY from kids :shock: or is that a concept that we only believe in in Ireland? So why keep knives away from them for their and our safety if we're gonna hand them something that can blow somebody's fucking brains out??? :shock: :roll: Kids are not responsible enough to drive, to drink, even to go to war yet... so why are they responsible enough to hold a gun? I thought kids with guns was something exclusive to African war torn countries? And then it's always sad to see.. why is it ok when the kid is white/american?

What about kitchen knives, or anything you can make into a weapon. Sure a ten year old is going to have a hard time using a knife or anything else to kill some one compaired to a gun, but the possibilility is still there.

I think you're reading into this way too much, this is an issue of gun security, the adults in the house failed to secure the weapons, thats a big no no with responsible gun owners.

Please don't generalize Americans, I've heard my fair share of European's outlandish opinions of Americans. This is not Somalia, I grew up here and have never seen anything close to what Europeans think its like. You watch way too much news, and from what I remember, Ireland hasn't always been a safe place to live. You are in just as much danger in Europe as you are in the States.

soulsinging

Motha Judson wrote:

What about kitchen knives, or anything you can make into a weapon. Sure a ten year old is going to have a hard time using a knife or anything else to kill some one compaired to a gun, but the possibilility is still there.

I think you're reading into this way too much, this is an issue of gun security, the adults in the house failed to secure the weapons, thats a big no no with responsible gun owners.

Please don't generalize Americans, I've heard my fair share of European's outlandish opinions of Americans. This is not Somalia, I grew up here and have never seen anything close to what Europeans think its like. You watch way too much news, and from what I remember, Ireland hasn't always been a safe place to live. You are in just as much danger in Europe as you are in the States.

Actually, the most dangerous city in Ireland is far safer than any major American city.

No way an 11-year old kid could have stabbed a grown adult woman to death with a kitchen knife. No way. Period. Don't even act like it's possible.

But you're right in that above all... why the hell does a child have access to a gun, any gun?

tybird

soulsinging wrote:

Motha Judson wrote:

What about kitchen knives, or anything you can make into a weapon. Sure a ten year old is going to have a hard time using a knife or anything else to kill some one compaired to a gun, but the possibilility is still there.

I think you're reading into this way too much, this is an issue of gun security, the adults in the house failed to secure the weapons, thats a big no no with responsible gun owners.

Please don't generalize Americans, I've heard my fair share of European's outlandish opinions of Americans. This is not Somalia, I grew up here and have never seen anything close to what Europeans think its like. You watch way too much news, and from what I remember, Ireland hasn't always been a safe place to live. You are in just as much danger in Europe as you are in the States.

Actually, the most dangerous city in Ireland is far safer than any major American city.

No way an 11-year old kid could have stabbed a grown adult woman to death with a kitchen knife. No way. Period. Don't even act like it's possible.

But you're right in that above all... why the hell does a child have access to a gun, any gun?

An 11 year old could NOT stab an adult to death???? Talk about generalizing.....have not been around any 11 year olds in awhile, eh....it could happen.

soulsinging

tybird wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Motha Judson wrote:

What about kitchen knives, or anything you can make into a weapon. Sure a ten year old is going to have a hard time using a knife or anything else to kill some one compaired to a gun, but the possibilility is still there.

I think you're reading into this way too much, this is an issue of gun security, the adults in the house failed to secure the weapons, thats a big no no with responsible gun owners.

Please don't generalize Americans, I've heard my fair share of European's outlandish opinions of Americans. This is not Somalia, I grew up here and have never seen anything close to what Europeans think its like. You watch way too much news, and from what I remember, Ireland hasn't always been a safe place to live. You are in just as much danger in Europe as you are in the States.

Actually, the most dangerous city in Ireland is far safer than any major American city.

No way an 11-year old kid could have stabbed a grown adult woman to death with a kitchen knife. No way. Period. Don't even act like it's possible.

But you're right in that above all... why the hell does a child have access to a gun, any gun?

An 11 year old could NOT stab an adult to death???? Talk about generalizing.....have not been around any 11 year olds in awhile, eh....it could happen.

I was thinking of kitchen knife as meaning a butter knife or something. For some reason, I didn't think about a butcher's knife or anything when I read that. So I see your point.

Cosmo

Instead of argueing about guns or no guns...
Am i the only one who's perplexed that the father of this kids wasn't keyed into the goings on of this kid... knowing the fucking kid had his own fucking shotgun in his bedroom? I mean, I'm hoping that if i'm the Dad whose fucking kid has a goddamn loaded shotgun in his room... I'm going to keep tabs on how he's doing and shit.

Motha Judson

Cosmo wrote:

Instead of argueing about guns or no guns...
Am i the only one who's perplexed that the father of this kids wasn't keyed into the goings on of this kid... knowing the fucking kid had his own fucking shotgun in his bedroom? I mean, I'm hoping that if i'm the Dad whose fucking kid has a goddamn loaded shotgun in his room... I'm going to keep tabs on how he's doing and shit.

Exactly, why does a kid have access to an unsecured weapon? I keep mine locked up and I live with adults.

People need to understand that the killer/criminal personality will find ways to do what they need to do. A gun does not change an otherwise normal person into a killer, it doesn't have a mind of its own nor possesses people like a poltergeist.

If a child can load, chamber, and fire a shot gun, they can slash or plunge a knife in some one.

Heineken Helen

my boss told me a story before about how his kid (I think only 3) got hold of a kitchen knife and started waving it around at his mom. The mother was pretty much backed into a corner by a 3 year old :shock: I'm pretty sure they learned their lesson to keep the knives further away from the kids... but I'm sure they won't be buying a kiddies gun anytime soon for little chucky

meme

I honestly think that a woman in her twenties would have survived an attack by an 11 year old perpetrated with a butcher's knife. She may be injured, but not dead.

But that, as far as I am concerned, is beside the point.

_

Motha Judson wrote:

People need to understand that the killer/criminal personality will find ways to do what they need to do. A gun does not change an otherwise normal person into a killer, it doesn't have a mind of its own nor possesses people like a poltergeist.

Eh, I see your point, but I don't think this line of reasoning is totally applicable to children.

kenny olav

i've debated this in too many threads. so i only feel like summarizing my thoughts right now:

guns are stupid.

whgarrett

I Love Guns! Guns Are Cool.

Kel Varnsen

Motha Judson wrote:

People need to understand that the killer/criminal personality will find ways to do what they need to do. A gun does not change an otherwise normal person into a killer, it doesn't have a mind of its own nor possesses people like a poltergeist.

If a child can load, chamber, and fire a shot gun, they can slash or plunge a knife in some one.

This is true but the gun does make it a lot easier for the kid to be an acutal killer. I mean I am pretty sure I could out run a little kid holding a knife. I know I can't outrun a bullet.