Why did the Pumpkins get off track?

musicismylife78

Most of us here can say that Siamese Dream is one of the top albums of the 1990's and one of the top albums ever released.

And quite a few people also say the same thing about mellon collie.

After that people seem to either absolutely loathe or love the Pumpkins releases like Adore, Machina I and II, and Zeitgeist.

My question is why do these latter albums almost univerally get panned, not only by casual fans, but also apparently as evidenced by the rantings of Billy on and off stage during this last tour, but that hardcore die hard pumpkins fans also feel somehow and in some manner they lost their appeal and sparkle after Mellon Collie.

Billy whatever you think of the guy, clearly is insanely talented and has a way of expressing himself in music and art that is almost breathtaking. The way his songs are not only melodic and rocking tunes, but also speak to and about experiences that clearly resonated with quite a few of us. I dont think Billy has changed. He is the same guy he was in 93 when Siamese was released. Still dealing with his issues, still angry and sad and upset.

So why are Adore, Machina and Zeitgeist so juvenile in comparison to the two "masterpieces"? Did Billy's writing just not connect with people on the most recent albums?

What is it about Siamese and Mellon Collie that makes them classics, what things do they have that Adore, Machina and Zeitgeist lack?

Brisk.

Having listened to many interviews now they say they want to keep on moving forward and not be people who want to be. They are muscians who want to progress and keep exploring music. I remember one not long ago, maybe 2 weeks he said he is sick to death of people thinking they are puppets and just some guys to play a few songs that people want to hear.

They made the rock albums early on, just guessing adore was just the next level they were at and same with machina. I guess he is just trying different ways to express how he feeling.

It's better coming from the horses mouth:

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/videos.html?id=996704482

ZosoCat

to be honest they are just average albums... but you can say the latter day albums of a lot of huge bands aren't as fresh or as good. I think the pumpkins are an exteme case but R.E.M., U2 and even PJ albums have been canned during the 00's. I just think the pumpkins were at the top of their game in the mid 1990's. Also the band broke up and probably the in-fighting etc. during the last 5 or so years depleted the quality of the albums.

jammerfall

I think Gish and Siamese Dream are outstanding records due to the teaming of Corgan and Butch Vig, and probably because they sort of define an "alternative sound" to a great many people.

I've always found Mellon Collie to be just too much, even though it thas an amazing number of stellar songs on it. I have always wondered what it would have sounded like if they would have kept it to one disc with Vig producing.

Adore is really good because of the direction it took, which just seemed logical to me for some reason. After that, I don't know. I think I've given Machina and Zeitgeist about 2 complete listens each and just couldn't make myself appreciate either one.

:? I won't even get into Zwan.

DewieCox

I'm not a big fan of the more industrial? type sound.

I thought Zeitgeist had some pretty kickass songs, just not enough to make it a great album.

soulsinging

TW97526 wrote:

to be honest they are just average albums... but you can say the latter day albums of a lot of huge bands aren't as fresh or as good. I think the pumpkins are an exteme case but R.E.M., U2 and even PJ albums have been canned during the 00's.

Exactly. It happens to everyone.

ryanrunning

from now on I believe we should use Billy's self-claimed American Gothic genre when refering to the band.

I love all their stuff, but can someone please explain to me why American Gothic as a genre?

kenny olav

To me, Gish and Siamese Dream had a vibe that has diminished since, and it has nothing to do with Butch Vig's production (which was excellent), and I believe it has everything to do with Billy Corgan. Siamese Dream is their masterpiece. I would say Mellon Collie was the height of their musical ability, but it didn't have the same purity that SD had, although pretty close to it. Since then, they haven't struck the same chord with me, but I still enjoy their later albums to some degree.

stevehomeair

NO SOUL plain and simple

TallGuyCM

The fact of the matter is that Jimmy Chamberlin killed the band when he and Jonathan Melvoin (their touring keyboardist at the time) overdosed on heroin. Melvoin died. Chamberlin lived, but was kicked out of the band soon after.

They may have been going in more of an electronic direction anyway, but without a drummer to lay down tracks for "Adore", the tendency toward electronica came sooner than later.

Imagine if Chamberlin had never messed with drugs, if they had gone on to record two or three more solid albums just as they had reached their peak creatively (Mellon Collie)? The thought of what the fans missed out on brings me pain...

Thorns2010

TallGuyCM wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Jimmy Chamberlin killed the band when he and Jonathan Melvoin (their touring keyboardist at the time) overdosed on heroin. Melvoin died. Chamberlin lived, but was kicked out of the band soon after.

They may have been going in more of an electronic direction anyway, but without a drummer to lay down tracks for "Adore", the tendency toward electronica came sooner than later.

Imagine if Chamberlin had never messed with drugs, if they had gone on to record two or three more solid albums just as they had reached their peak creatively (Mellon Collie)? The thought of what the fans missed out on brings me pain...

While I agree with you that in a sense that incident 'killed' the band....I dunno about the rest of what you said. At the end of the day The Smashing Pumpkins is Billy's band, and his alone. I can't say I'd see Adore being a whole lot different with Jimmy being there.