9/11 Conspiracy people: Please read!

soulsinging

Austicman wrote:

Then why not not hang him out to dry over the training of death squads in South America. Likewise I find hard to believe he wasn't one of the boys but still got the CIA to cause the carnage they did across South America.

Good point. For someone that was supposedly not part of the international conspiracy, he sure was the king of foreign policy that aims to achieve hegemony.

VINNY GOOMBA

soulsinging wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I do remember all this talk about Clinton selling nuke secrets to the Chinese for political contributions-- and I really had no interest in politics then (I was 16 or 17 maybe), I'd say I even made attempts to tune it all out. If this is true about Clinton, it is unbelievably fucked up. But what is Clinton most remembered for scandal-wise (and maybe even his presidency in general)? Neither this, nor Whitewater. He will always be best remembered for Lewinsky.

I think 'conspiracy' is simply protocol for all the parties involved at this point. Is there really any need to meet 30 floors below sea-level in a smoke-filled room to discuss these bullshit cat and mouse games the politicians and the media play with us? I think the media knows their role at this point-- it's not like they have to take direct orders from the 'higher-ups' everytime some new scandal comes to light. They know that the place for the REAL news, the stuff that is supposed to concern us is on page 34 in the lower left hand corner of the newspaper, or in a 30 second news brief, or not mentioned at all. It's a beautiful system. If there's nothing happening in the news, there's always a constant stream of bullshit coming out of Hollywood to exploit for weeks at a time, if need be. A great recent example: Anna Nicole Smith's death.

This is where I part ways with you all. Is real news "buried" due to orders from the shadowy evil conspirators on top controlling the entire universe? Or is it that news like that is on page 34 because most people don't care and the masses are stupid and sex scandals sell more newspapers? I think the latter. Quality news is not down because of some unified effort to keep things suppressed. Quality news is down because it doesn't sell well and the papers are just about turning a profit.

You make a great point here. However, I believe there was a point where these questionable characters did have some serious influence on what was and wasn't reported. Obviously, if REAL news couldn't be the focus of reporting, there has to be something to fill the gap, so they turned to Hollywood... and BAM! An instant success formula for everyone involved: The celebrities get all the positive and negative exposure they want, to help keep selling themselves, the media obviously makes bank on it all, and the people in control do whatever they want in broad daylight. The news business has grown significantly over the past 20 years or so. Remember when 24 hour news didn't exist?
The role of propaganda has expanded. It no longer has to rely soley on demonizing a group, and make another look good-- it can simply divert attention away from things that matter, to other DUMBER things.
Was the trend so hard to figure out, that people ultimately like sex, violence, and even just plain stupidity? We've gone from "Leave it to Beaver" to "Rock of Love."

xavier mcdaniel

Kenny Olav wrote:

xavier mcdaniel wrote:

Kenny Olav wrote:

Fanch, I would agree that Loose Change is dumb. But one thing you need to know is that there are 9/11 theorists who dismiss much of what Loose Change claims. I am an incessant researcher and from about November of 2001 to let's say early 2004, I researched the fuck out of 9/11, and I still occasionally do. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around all of the opposing theories, but there are at least a few that I haven't written off yet... and those would be the theories that certain elites in government helped the hijackers accomplish their attack, or that these officials knew what they were up to and let it happen on purpose. While 9/11 amateurs like Dylan Avery and blowhards like Alex Jones soak up most of the press on 9/11 conspiracies, there are guys like Michael Ruppert who few know about, and who, I think make some compelling arguments.

But for a few years going now, I mostly just care about sex, food, beer, vacation, music, making more money - because I've thrown in the towel. You can't fight the assholes, but you can avoid them a lot of the time. I'll always bitch about them on the internet though. I mean, it feels good, and it's easy to do.

I've researched the hell out of 9/11 as well. From my findings, it seems that the conspiracy was by both administrations to avoid warnings of such men as John O'Neill of the FBI. I don't know if it was intentional or not but it seems that not listening to a man who seemed to know more about terrorism than anyone in the White House was among the significant reasons that it happened.

Yes, the story of John O'Neil is a massive red flag. The fact that he was assigned a job at the WTC just a week or two before Sept 11, and that he died on that day definitely is a very strange coincidence.

From my understanding and non-expert interpretation, it seems that O'Neill wasn't taken seriously because the government was not a fan of the way he approached things, especially in Yemen when he clashed with Barbara Bodine (The ambassador) over the investigation of the U.S.S. Cole attacks.

It also didn't help matters that back then agencies like the CIA and FBI did not cross-reference their information with each other.

DriftingByTheStorm

soulsinging wrote:

Where do you get this stuff? Who the hell is Oscar Callaway and how is one congressman from 100 years ago the be-all end-all of this debate?

I'd ask why, if he was so right, he's the only one in 100 years you could come up with, but that's the beauty of conspiracy theories... no evidence is itself evidence of the conspiracy, because they've covered everything up!

I "get this stuff" from doing research. Reading, watching movies, scrounging around in "the internets".
To not understand that groups like the Rockefeller clan or JP Morgan and his associates had an undue influence on this country and its government is to SERIOUSLY misread history.

This is NOT "the only one in 100 years" i could "come up with", it was THE MOST RELEVANT.
If you think i am going to be able to pull out a dozen quotes on the spot from congressman and senators DIRECTLY related to media control is ridiculous.

BUT THERE IS AMPLE COMMENTARY THROUGHOUT THE AGES TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO ANY BUT THE MOST OBSTINANT THAT THERE IS A GROUP OF HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL MEN THAT MANIPULATES THE WILL OF THE STATE TO THEIR INTERESTS.

For instance, here is another great quote, from New York Mayor John Francis Hylan

from Wiki wrote:

Hylan's most famous words against "the interests" was the following speech, made in 1922, while he was the sitting Mayor of New York City:

"...The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over City, State, and nation... It seizes in its long and powerful tentacles our executive officers, our legislative bodies, our schools, our courts, our newspapers, and every agency created for the public protection..."

"To depart from mere generalizations, let me say that at the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller-Standard Oil interest and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as the international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes."

"They practically control both parties, write political platforms, make catspaws of party leaders, use the leading men of private organizations, and resort to every device to place in nomination for high public office only such candidates as will be amenable to the dictates of corrupt big business..."

"These international bankers and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government...."

This "invisible government", Hylan and others argued, exercised its control of the US Government through the Federal Reserve.

I have provided DOZENS of quotes to this board, from senators, congressmen, presidents, and influential men in business and politics, and EVERYTIME someone tries to write off those quotes as being "out of context" or "just one idiots opinion" or somesuch. Never do people seem to stop and consider that the recorded words of history are ON THE SIDE OF "CONSPIRACY" and NOT AGAINST it.

How many more quotes do you need?
Do you want them from Eisenhower? From FDR? From Lincoln? From Jefferson? From Lindberg? Madison? Wilson? Hylan?

When, in the course of your denial, will you finally concede that enough men, with enough cause to know better than you, have indeed conceded that there is a "conspiracy" of special interests -- primarily international bankers and oil & steel men -- set upon gaining control of governments the world over in order to advance their OWN agenda?

Because i can keep throwing up quotes if thats what you are after.
8-) 8-)

soulsinging

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I "get this stuff" from doing research. Reading, watching movies, scrounging around in "the internets".
To not understand that groups like the Rockefeller clan or JP Morgan and his associates had an undue influence on this country and its government is to SERIOUSLY misread history.

This is NOT "the only one in 100 years" i could "come up with", it was THE MOST RELEVANT.
If you think i am going to be able to pull out a dozen quotes on the spot from congressman and senators DIRECTLY related to media control is ridiculous.

BUT THERE IS AMPLE COMMENTARY THROUGHOUT THE AGES TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO ANY BUT THE MOST OBSTINANT THAT THERE IS A GROUP OF HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL MEN THAT MANIPULATES THE WILL OF THE STATE TO THEIR INTERESTS.

I have provided DOZENS of quotes to this board, from senators, congressmen, presidents, and influential men in business and politics, and EVERYTIME someone tries to write off those quotes as being "out of context" or "just one idiots opinion" or somesuch. Never do people seem to stop and consider that the recorded words of history are ON THE SIDE OF "CONSPIRACY" and NOT AGAINST it.

How many more quotes do you need?
Do you want them from Eisenhower? From FDR? From Lincoln? From Jefferson? From Lindberg? Madison? Wilson? Hylan?

When, in the course of your denial, will you finally concede that enough men, with enough cause to know better than you, have indeed conceded that there is a "conspiracy" of special interests -- primarily international bankers and oil & steel men -- set upon gaining control of governments the world over in order to advance their OWN agenda?

Because i can keep throwing up quotes if thats what you are after.
8-) 8-)

I have never denied that the rich and powerful have undue influence in government. They always have and they always will. It's the nature of humans and human society... just like every group of gorillas has a silverback, there will always be more powerful people using their power to advance their interests at the expense of the masses.

However, this does not mean that EVERY major event in world history was carefully planned and plotted by some shadowy conspiracy to control world affairs. The fact is that world economic and governmental system are far too complex for JP Morgan to single-handedly control the entire course of human history like human civilization is just a giant Rube Goldberg machine... a little bombing here, a little bribing there, and, of course, everything always goes perfectly according to plan. Ever hear of chaos theory? Complex systems are unpredictable and the kind of fine control and manipulation you attribute to these conspiracies is simply NOT POSSIBLE.

I do not want quotes... Jerry Falwell told me 9/11 was an act of God punishing us for accepting homosexuality. Should I believe the rhetoric of every politician that claims all of our problems are the resort of superhuman efforts to control the uncontrollable? What I want is FACTS... not conjecture. Not a quote by a NYC mayor paired with the fact that a rich guy bought a bunch of newspapers... that's not enough evidence to meet the lowest threshold of proof. There's never any evidence, just quotes by a bunch of people like you claiming the conspiracy exists. I know millions of people that tell me Jesus is the son of God and I have to accept him to get to heaven... a bunch of people saying the same thing means nothing without factual proof of its truth.