Obama Stimulus Plan
Pats54
Posts: 276
Is there any concern that the Dem's are going to try to pass a bill that is going to spend more than the two wars combined in less than two weeks. Scary!!! The Dems will only have themselves to blame. Where is gridlock when you need it.
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where do you get this stuff...?
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf Link is below p9. It has been reported that the stimulus is going to be in excess of 850bln. I just get concerned when they try to ram things through, like they always do. Pissed me off when W did the same thing with the bank bailout. Basically a bayback to all his w-street buddies. The banks as we are learning have been slow at best getting the money out. I also read somewhere that there is no accounting for some of these funds. It really pisses me off. Now we are going to undertake a large govt funded infrastructure rebuild. I live in MA where we had the big dig which was horribly mismanaged and ended up costing the taxpayer more than double what was originally forecast. Part off the tunnel fell down and killed someone as a result of shotty work by the contractors. Now they are going to raise taxes to pay for this project. We really don't need a bunch of govt run big digs going on throughout the country. Yet no one seems to care.
i am far more concerned with the war in iraq and what that has, presently does and will continue to *cost* us...in lives.....money......and our relationships with other countries.
i think obama has some bold ideas, and is working towards the betterment of our country. thus far, this is what i see and believe. time and actions taken may change my mind, but right now...that's where i am at.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I honestly hope you don't think Obama is going to end any of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He has already said that he wants to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan and is only going to pull "combat" troops from Iraq. That means he can, at anytime as commander in chief, change "combat" troops into support troops or training personnel or any other terminology which doesn't include combat in order to meet his "out in 16 months goal". So there will still be a US presence in Iraq for years to come as well as a greater US presence in Afghanistan... so much for bringing the troops home.
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It is beyond stupid.
Firstly, the LARGE majority of the money in the bill
WILL NOT BE SPENT FOR OVER TWO YEARS.
Secondly,
the amount of FISCAL MOMENTUM now built up in the system is so great that even if this was $1 Trillion in one big dump, it still WONT DO SHIT.
Markets carry momentum, and ours is in one HELL of a downswing.
If the government was going to dump several trillion at it, IT SHOULD HAVE DONE SO BACK IN OCTOBER 2007!
Not February 2009!
Unfortunately now the markets are in such a state of distrust, fear, paranoia, and more importantly, REAL DISTRESS that it simply will not matter how much the government spends.
The housing market is in a sharp, protracted, and continuing downturn.
Paying blue collar folks to build highways 2 years in the future IS NOT GOING TO HELP!
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i know nothing is ending tomorrow, not by a long shot.....but i do believe he will do more to end the violence sooner, and work towards more peaceful resolutions. want to call me naive, so be it.....i just believe more will be done to improve the situation with him in office than anyone else.
and my point for the thread was simply...in my mind...there are bigger issues at hand than public works/rebuilding, which may not turn out to be a bad idea.....we shall see....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
but it all may help someone get re-elected in 4.....
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Social awareness does not equal political activism!
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I'll be honest, brotha' ...
i'm not holding out much hope for a United States of America in Constitutional and Civil Order enough to even hold elections in four years.
Maybe that is too much doom & gloom pessimism, and too far out in the future to accurately analyze,
but with gold pushing back over the $900 mark, and the markets floating on absolute bottoms with no reason to move higher, it is looking VERY gloomy. Any further breakdown in equities (like DOW 6500-7000) could spell catastrophe for civil order in this country. You have large banks and institutions already on the brink. Another 10-15% downside could be the undoing of it all. The collapse of just a few large institutions domestically, is all it would take to see a large scale spill over to all levels of the economy.
And four years is a LONG time for an already strained government to continue fiscal operations. By that, i mean, the government can bailout GM and Citi all they want, but in a year or so (maybe sooner), when THEY (the USGov) needs money, WHO WILL THEY TAP? China? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Only China has the means, and they may just very well decide to INVEST AT HOME instead of in OUR markets. SOMEONE has to give up the ghost, and it is looking a LOT like it will be the USA.
And lets not forget the COMMERCIAL real estate market.
THAT is going to beat the SHIT out of the US economy (and the global economy).
I'm not sure there is ANYthing Obama can do to gain himself credence in such an environment,
and i'm not sure such an environment will even be conducive to elections, period.
Just my personal bent.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Not fair to those who still have to pay a mortgage, but it will end the problem without a need for a stimulus.
That combined with serious mortgage re-arranging, or whatever it's called, like my mum got. she went from 3700$ a month to 1400$ a month. They're just going to extend the length of the loan, with no added interest, to make up the difference. That's the way to do it, not by dropping interest rates but by dropping payments based on income and lengthening the loan..I even told whats his name Mozillo? The CEO of Countrywide(or at least he was at the time), but he didn't listen...and that was a bitch to find his personal office number too..what a waste of time..
And no, she isn't one of the idiots who got fucked by a bank, shes one who got fucked by a contractor instead. :?
EDIT: I think the lengthening of the loans is the way to go for the businesses on the verge of bankruptcy..
So... what is the alternative? Do nothing? If he took that route... would you be happy... or complain that he was doing nothing?
Hail, Hail!!!
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What he shoud do is cut the corporate tax rate, and lower the capital gains tax rate. Then he should provide tax incentives for companies who want to put manufacturing facilities in the US. I work for a company (Big Pharama) where we set-up manufacturing facilities overseas b/c the tax advantages vs. the us are too great to pass up. Yet all dems seem to want to do is tax corporations more and more and then bitch b/c all of the jobs are going overseas. Giving 300Ml so some illeagals can re-sod the lawn on the mall and another 300m in condom distribution is just plan dumb. But no one in this country seems to give a shit. Economies eb and flow over time right now we are in a downturn. Let the market correct itself with tax incentives and it will come back. Giving a one time 500 or 1000 tax credit to individuals over the course of the year is also pointless. This is just the beginning he will come back in a few months for more watch.
That was exactly what I thought when this all hit the fan too... if we're going to bail people out with tax dollars, why not the citizens, not the banks? The banks get their money, the people are free of mortgages and can start spending, everyone can breathe easier. Sure, the banks take a bit of a hit because they depend on the interest to make money, but they should take a hit and they can still make money on the other loans. Make it a one-time thing, the US buys out a bunch of mortgages and we start over.
bailout plan???
its all pretty simple....
just go borrow some more money from China...
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Under Bush... weren't Corporate Taxes cut? Did that bring back any manufacturing jobs?
And it isn't the Taxes companies pay to operate here that sent them overseas... it is labor. Compare your income to the income of someone doing the same thing in China or India. Are they on the same level? Does your company pay for the same medical benefits you receive to those workers overseas? Do they pay for any benefits over there? There are
It's all about cutting operating costs... mainly, payroll. The less your executives have to pay for workers, the more they get to keep for themselves.
And face reality... those manufacturing jobs are gone and they are never coming back. This Global Market has created a massive new Global Middle Class made up of the 2.5 billion Chinese and Indian workers. The U.S. companies will maintain the administrative, management and marketing, but the nuts and bolts of industry are gone.
Hail, Hail!!!
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This is actually not an absolute anymore. Labor in India and China, while still vastly cheaper than their American equivalents, have rocketed in price. There is a growing trend to bring manufacuring back to the US. Why? Rising outsourced labor costs combined with dropping customer service satisfaction and rising shipping costs. "Middle class" Asian workers are demanding more as they realize their worth in the global economy. Some blame the internet and access to knowledge previously clouded, but there is a lot more going on. I was the victim of outsourcing back in '07, and the company consequently lost valuable customers due to a drop in quality and response times. There's a very valuable & tangible beneft to keeping a core group of manufacturing & customer service expertise "in house" so to speak. In my mind the worst of the outsourcing trend is over. Time will tell.
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...
Under Bush... weren't Corporate Taxes cut? Did that bring back any manufacturing jobs?
And it isn't the Taxes companies pay to operate here that sent them overseas... it is labor. Compare your income to the income of someone doing the same thing in China or India. Are they on the same level? Does your company pay for the same medical benefits you receive to those workers overseas? Do they pay for any benefits over there? There are
It's all about cutting operating costs... mainly, payroll. The less your executives have to pay for workers, the more they get to keep for themselves.
And face reality... those manufacturing jobs are gone and they are never coming back. This Global Market has created a massive new Global Middle Class made up of the 2.5 billion Chinese and Indian workers. The U.S. companies will maintain the administrative, management and marketing, but the nuts and bolts of industry are gone.[/quote]
We still hav the 2nd highest corporate tax rates as compared to other industralized countries. We were going to set-up a manufact. facility in this country. Our tax people looked at the HUGE tax breaks we would receive by going to PR and they you have it.
As noted below India is becoming costly as far as workers go etc.
Good point esp. India which is becoming very costly
Maybe you can answer me this...
How many manufactured goods are stamped with 'Made in India' do you find on the store shelfs?
How many manufactured goods are stamped with 'Made In China' do you find on those same store shelves?
...
My point? Goods versus Services.
As BinFrog stated, it was customer complaints about service, ever try to call about that defective hard drive you just put into your computer?
India was the one who fielded all of those servie calls... hell, a couple of years back, they were talking about outsourcing drive-thru windows at McDonalds to India. But, when you can't figure out what the hell the guy on the other end of the phone is saying... it ain't worth it.
China produces the goods. Those are the jobs that are never coming back. For every Chinese guy with a shitty factory job making plastic hair brushes, there are 300 applicants in line for his job. He can slack off on his production numbers... or ask for a raise... because he gets the boot and the next guy in line takes his place. There is no way Americans can compete with that.
Case in point:
http://www.madeinusaproductsstore.com/
Great... made in the good ol' U.S.A., right? Browse through there... look at all of those goods.
Tell me.. where are the Blue Ray DVD players? The 42" LCD Televisions? The Washing Machines? Refridgerators? Water Heaters? Air Conditioning Unit?
If you want a job in a glass factory, making coffee mugs... those jobs are here. But, what about those Middle Class jobs that your parents could work at, making furniture or ovens? Those jobs allowed them to carve out a pretty descent living, without a college degree.
Those are the jobs I'm talking about.
Hail, Hail!!!
Bush puts out a stimulus package during his presidency and now Obama is doing the same (only costing us even more!)
Good thing we 'voted for change.'
Hi Mary...
I'm a little bit confused here...
Are you saying Obama is like Bush? (hence, the 'Voted for Change' remark)
Would that mean either:
A. You supported Bush... since Obama is like Bush... you support Obama... OR
B. You oppose Obama... since Obama is like Bush... you opposed Bush.
...
I don't get it.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't get it, either. I don't support the Stimulus plan. I didn't support Bush's either.
I think you know I'm a conservative, and I believe both Bush and Obama are to the left of center.
Sorry to disappoint you, Hon... but, Bush is NOT to the left of Center. Maybe you see him as left of Center because he is so far on the EXTREME RIGHT side of the scale... he circles around and pops up on the other side. You know he is part of that whole Neo-Conservatism thing, right?
You can't brush off Bush as not being on your side of the coin... if you are a Conservative and Bush is a Conservative... there is only one outcome... you are both Conservatives.
Hail, Hail!!!
seriously!
how anyone can even imagine bush to be LEFT of center......
and ya know, this stimulus package is a bit scary to say the least.....but things ARE dire, so i am hoping it is the right choice. i've read that the package carries the same pricetag as the iraqi war thus far.....well THAT, was a complete waste of money, life....EVERYthing imo. at least this is meant to BENEFIT americans, so i can only hope that it WILL and down the road we see it as a positive, and it winds up BEING a positive. time WILL tell, that's for sure.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'm one of the biggest Bush opponents out there, but gvn2fly74 is right. Bush was one of the least conservative republican presidents in recent history. He's an idiot in my opinion, but he's not even close to being a true conservative.