socialised health care
Flutter Girl
Posts: 548
How can anyone in their right mind think this is a good idea for us? Coming from a socialist country, I know how bad it is..People waiting for months to get treatments, sometimes even years. Imagine someone with cancer being made to wait for chemo. It happens. And why should we pay for the health care of the wealthy..Let it roll out of their own damned pockets.
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i live in a capitalist western country and we have socialised health care. sure you can get private health insurance, and be treated in a private hospital, if you can afford it, but when youre asked to still pay to fill in the gap then whats the point of paying those premiums. but for the rest of us plebes there is the public health system. i have never not been able to get treated. all my children were birthed in public hospitals using the public health system and theyre quite normal. ive rocked up to the emergency ward on numerous occcasions and never had a problem.
p.s. i am in my right mind and i think socialised health care is a good idea.
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it's not your right mind we're worried about cate
well what part of me are you worried about 'norm'?
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Agreed, we have socialized health care, it sucks, people wait forever for elective surgeries, at hospitals and have no family doc. With that being said I doubt America will ever have socialized health, just to many lobbyist that have gotten to congress.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
they dont call it ELECTIVE surgery for nothing.
maybe im spoilt cause ive not come across any hassles in my life when dealing with the public health system. and i know tis not cause its run without fault cause i hear the stories. but nothings perfect. and if my country didnt have a public health sytem me and a whole shitload of other people, including the elderly, would be up shit creek. as far as i can see the pros outweigh the cons.
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like the homeless lady a hospital refused to treat because she couldn't afford the bill...yeah. profit over people, should be the motto of this fucked up country.
as i have said it works fine enough in my country. i cant help it if your government fucks you all up the arse on a regular basis and so consequently youve lost all faith in them doing right by you. i dread a society that shows no compassion for its sick and thinks the only way to run a public service organisation is to privatise it so they can deny all responsibility and accountability.
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socialised healthcare whilst not perfect in the UK is a damn sight better than the "fuck you pay me" attitude of the US.
i believe in the US that if a girl is raped then she actually has to pay for the abortion/or her treatement for injuries using her own insurance.
America's attitude towards its own citizens is repugnant... they will let poor people die in hospital waiting rooms but spend $100 billion fighting a country that 98% of those poor american people have no idea where it is.
and maybe its because i live in a large rural area of Scotland but neither me nor anyone i know has had to wait months and months for treatments... the National Health Service in the UK must be one of the greatest ever achievements by a western country... its brilliant.
no point arguing cate...
although i remember my wife's relatives being amazed when they visited here and they had to visit an old auntie in a hospital... they couldnt believe it was 'free' (yes i know taxes pay for it blah blah deblah) ... they thought that was amazing.
My Mum, however has had lots of health issues in the past 8 years. She's spent months in hospitals, had chemo, blood transfusions, and is now taking a shit load of meds just to keep her alive. None of which she has had to pay for, or wait more than a week or two for. When she collapsed, she was taken to hospital within minutes. She saw a doctor within hours. Scans, treatments etc were arranged on the spot. No waiting, no making sure she could afford it first. Which is good, because she can't. And if she had too, she probably wouldn't be here.
Thank God for the NHS.
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Yeah, people should have to wait in pain for months to get hip surgery and knee surgery. I'm not saying you have to do away with socialist medicine, but for those of us who would rather buy health insurance and see docs in a private system we should have that choice, currently we do not, other than going to the states which is no feasible. And believe me their are many of us out there.
Trust me, I know I can run my own life better than the Canadian government, I am not one of those Canadians who expects the government to do everything for me.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
First I want to respond to this one...There are abortion clinics that are free. Actually womens clinics that do more than just that, that are free. If she has insurance, the premium doesn't go up, it's just covered..the insurance pays it.
And in Britain you don't get to choose which doctor you go with. We can.
ok thats interesting and different to what i was told on here in the past.
I went to county hospital in the middle of the night with what even the doc, at first, though was a busted ear drum. I had an ear infection so bad I have slight permanent damage to my hearing. At County I waited 18 hours to get seen, only for the doc to see me for 2 minutes try to bust my ear drum himself with a q-tip, and gave me ear drops that made the infection worse.
I went to my private family doc a few days later when the pain was getting worse, waited maybe 15 minutes to get in to see him (without an appt. no less!), had a personable chat with him as he’s been my doc since I came to America, got a thorough check up, to find out what kind of infection I had, he cursed the government-tax-paid county hospital doctor, then told me the drops were making it worse cos it was for the other kind of ear infection. Gave me the right drops and an antibiotic (one of the many free samples he had been given by various drug companies) and sent me on my merry way. Didn't even charge for the office visit.
Another example of social vs private right here in America- I have bronchitis. It is a breathing condition, not a virus or bacteria (people think it is cos usually it is a cold that triggers it..in my case, it's cigarette smoke)..I have always been given a free inhaler whenever I’ve gone to my family doctor (also from his stock pile of free samples..). Clears it up entirely within 3 days. And I mean I get violent attacks losing 15 pounds a week on average, coughing up blood, the whole deal, the inhaler always makes it better.
When I was in the Marines I got bronchitis. I went to see the navy doc who was in complete agreeance with me when I told him what I have. I know the symptoms well, I have had it at least once in every year of my life, and I have never once had a cold. I know damned well it was not a friggin cold. Then the doc asked how my family doctor always treated it, I said inhaler and all of a sudden the doc decided I have a cold, shoved cold medicine and God aweful "cough drops" in my face, and called in the next patient. Obviously, the cold medicine didn’t work. Cos obviously cold medicine is for colds. They wouldn’t even let me have ricola which in a way works like an inhaler cos it's menthol. They only let me use the government issued cough drops that only accomplished numbing my tongue.
I was losing a lot of weight really fast (30 pounds in 2 weeks and 3 days is dangerous, especially when you have a naturally high heart rate like mine, I was at extreme risk for heart attack or stroke), coughing up blood, and despite drinking 12 canteens of water every day (one canteen is 16 ounces), I was still laid up in the hospital every other day with an IV.
During the last check-up I had with them. The doc get very worried and rushed for the other senior doc to have a look at me and listen to my lungs.
They finally let me go home so I could see my family doc, who treated me with antibiotics cos thankfully it was only the very beginning stages of pnuemonia, and an inhaler for the bronchitis..for free, of course.
I don't know one single person in the military who has not agreed that they would never trust their lives in the hands of a military doctor.
I can tell you more about our already existing social health care system..My parents are both disabled veteran’s, my mum is 100% service connected for what that’s worth(not much..that’s for sure), my mum worked at the Miami VA for 5 years, so she knows it from the other side of the counter too. My aunt worked there for nearly 30 years. Wanted the full 30 but got bullied by the government to take an early retirement which pays less. I can tell you stories about how they took an electric wheelchair away from a paraplegic, or how it took my mum 9 years to get an electric for herself. Or how her long time boyfriend’s brother lost his eye from a small lesion cos of diabetes and lack of immediate care, or lemme tell ya all about the fella who died on the operating table cos the doctors were a bunch of poorly trained fuck ups who don’t get paid enough by uncle sam to care. or better yet, I can post pictures of my mum’s frankenstein scars after a botched surgery, or tell you how she ended up permanently disabled in the first place due to lack of caring from doctors who seem to share that sentiment about not getting paid enough like the docs who killed that other guy..
sometimes it's laziness and/or resentment cos they get shit pay for their job. Most often it's lack of quality training, and lack of quality treatments to offer....The Department of Veterans Affairs is the single biggest embarrassment in the history of the U.s military.
I need insurance, desperately. I have a brain tumor, and cannot afford treatment. My doc is more than happy to do the bloodwork for free in his lab, but he is only a family doctor, not a neurosurgeon, which is who I need even for the biopsy. But the government can't even take care of just the Vet's, so imagine it being nationwide..
For the truely poor, there is medicaid. It is strict as hell, which is good, cos if you don't really need it, don't even bother trying. It works out well. Provided they accept it, you can go to private doctors. It's flaw is in getting it in the first place. strict is good, but they are also corrupt. The doctors who examine you, to see if you qualify, are given incentive to report that you don't. With a lot of cases, they can't get away with that. But for conditions that cannot be physically proven, such as certain mental or mood disorders, it's easy for them to say no.
The National Health Service has to serve a relatively homogeneous population comparable to the size of a small US state. I'm not sure that model would do much good in the US.
Though I agree it's pretty sick when you compare what this country spends on arms and warfare as compared to social services.
Well, in small towns, there usually isn't much choice, regarding doctors, at all..free or not.
But yea, there are, in my experience, more than one doc at the clinics and you can choose. At the VA, forget it, you don't get a choice at all..so if that is anything to go by as an example of how it would be here....things would not be good. And the best part about the clinics is it's all women that work in them, so you need not be uncomfortable if you have issues being around men for those kind of exams.
But I live in an area where I have so far found 5 of the clinics..
take a good look
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it is. and I think that's why its so hard to get anything done about healthcare in the US. there's money to made by keeping it the way it is.
capitalism, continuing to do what's best for the bank account.
only when the last tree has died
and the last river been poisoned
and the last fish been caught
will we realise we cannot eat money
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I've luckily never had any major issues but anytime I've had something wrong, I've had it sorted straight away. And with a professional attitude... they were fantastic... not QUITE free in Ireland, semi free, but still fantastic. It's free here in England and it's pretty cool actually. I don't think there should be a situation anywhere where somebody can't afford to be sick
Verona??? it's all surmountable
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Verona??? it's all surmountable
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that, and amazingly some citizens are still against it! americans in general, for whatever reason, are very anti-tax, anti social programs, and like to keep government out of what they deem their private lives. of course, there is much there that makes zero sense but that's besides the point. personally, i think socialized medicine for ALL would be an excellent idea. we DO already have some form of socialized medicine, but you have to be extremely poor, or old, or both...to actually get to it. there are some other instances, free clinics and such, but overall...the average worker, no socialized medicine. i will never understand why there are some in this country who don't want it...but i have seen it argued by many on this very board being agsainst it, think the government will fuck it up, etc...but really...don't think that is so. as i said, i jkust think america as a whole has had a particular mindset 0f 'freedom'...of keeping government out, but that definitely seems to be changing. i have excellent health coverage and always have, thankfully......but without employment and/or without a parent with coverage and being their dependent...or a spouse with good coverage...then what? if i keep at my job and all sure my firm will continue my insurance, covering 70% of the cost...but why sould ANYone have that worry in old age, when you need good health coverage the most? i most definitely support such change and think it will be for the betterment of all citizens.
Let's just breathe...
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Really? I've never heard of a free abortion clinic in the United States. I'd love to know about the ones to which you're referring. And are there any in New Mexico?
Huh? What incentive do doctors get to deny patients Medicaid? And why would they do this when it's in their own best interest for the patients to have a payer source?
Also, if, as you said, you think the Medicaid system works out well, why would you have a problem with a single-payer system, which would be very similar?
I found out about the clinics who do that thru a friend after she was raped. The hospital told her about the clinic
Government doesn't want to pay to help people, therefore the more applications denied, the better, according to them. same way it works at the VA. I would imagine they get the same sort of incentive the VA docs got for denials..nice sized bonuses. I'm on my 10th application, I know folk who are on their 19th or 20th applications. This time I got a lawyer tho, one of those free ones, well he gets part of the back pay when we win..so if anyone is getting denied, I suggest you go find a lawyer. Mine literally wrote the book on fighting social security, medicaid, and DCF..LoL, my doc showed it to me when referring the guy to me.
I don't know anything about the single payer system :? Could you tell me what it is?
I think, in addition to fixing medicaid, the best thing we can do to correct the health care system here is to
regulate cost of medicine
regulate cost of necessary treatments, meaning if you want bigger chuchi's you're on your own, but brain surgery should not be a quality-goes-to-the-highest-bidder system.
and regulate private insurance companies..no more denying chemo for cancer patients, etc..
Problem with giving medicaid to only those who are poor... is that it's the middle people who suffer. Sometimes there are advantages to being unemployed for this reason. If you have a job and it pays what's considered 'decent' money, you might be getting by and having a LITTLE bit of a life... but you're considered able to afford these things... and many people in those situations can't.
Denying people chemo is disgusting... the lowest of the low.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you