Intonation question

PearlJamaholic

i have a guitar i keep tuned in open g, but i noticed when ever i capo it the low e and a strings are way outta wack. every string is out of tune, but they are close enough in tune with each other that its not that big of a deal. i tried raising and lowering the bridge for those strings but it doesnt seem to fix anything. id adjust the height, tune it, then capo and it would still be way off. ive spent quite a bit of time adjusting and not getting anything to change from the open notes to the capo'd

xtremehardy388

Have you had the intonation set in the beginning? Also, I don't know what kind of guitar you have but, if you can adjust individual saddles, that might help. Finally, capos sometimes throw the tuning out of whack, anyway (since the positioning of your fingers on one fret can change the tuning, even a little). My suggestion would be to adjust the saddles, or take it to have the intonation set correctly (unless you can do it).

PearlJamaholic

yeah it has the normal strat style bridge and all. i didnt touch the other 4 strings cause they are good enough when i capo. i just dont get why it throws the other strings sharp by alittle but those 2 strings go sharp enough till its be the next note flat...

when i capo on the 5th fret the low e turns out to be g# but flattened. same with the a string, i get nearly a half-step increase. all the other strings they are the correct note (just out of tune) for the 5th fret.

xtremehardy388

PearlJamaholic wrote:

yeah it has the normal strat style bridge and all. i didnt touch the other 4 strings cause they are good enough when i capo. i just dont get why it throws the other strings sharp by alittle but those 2 strings go sharp enough till its be the next note flat...

when i capo on the 5th fret the low e turns out to be g# but flattened. same with the a string, i get nearly a half-step increase. all the other strings they are the correct note (just out of tune) for the 5th fret.

Yeah, sounds like you might just need to adjust the saddles. Also, the neck could be out whack, too.

ccpa

Tuning is affected by three variables. String gauge, length and tension.

Sacrifices are made throughout the neck.

If you tune it without a capo it is only in tune for that particular setup. Once you add the capo, you are in essence changing the string length and tension.

Check this out for info to explain the problem you are experiencing.

http://www.earvana.com/technology2.htm

mccreadyisgod

Bob (Who's_pearljam? from the old board) insists I reply on his behalf here, since he hasn't given his pound of flesh. Bob says:

"MIG! That guy with the capo
If he plays the open E and A, and plays it at the 12th fret and it's still E and A, then it's not intonation. He either has the capo too tight, too close to the middle of the fret spacings so it's putting too much pressure on the looser E and A strings and put the capo closer to the fret, or,,,, haha, reality strikes.
Sometimes in life, you just have to retune your guitar when you put a capo on!"

I agree with what he's saying... you "set" your intonation by making sure the note at the 12th fret is an octave higher than the open string. So, get your tuner out. Tune up the entire guitar (okay, tune it twice just to be sure). Then play each string fretted at the 12th. If the string is in tune at the 12th, then your intonation is set. If it's sharp, then you need to move the bridge saddle away from the neck. If it's flat, then move the bridge saddle towards the neck.

Also, make sure you're moving the right piece. If you're moving the height, then you're moving the wrong thing. On a Strat 6-saddle bridge, it should be the screws on the backside (like, closest to the endpin). So, if it's sharp, tighten that screw. If it's flat, loosen that screw.

Hope that helps...

PearlJamaholic

i think it might be high frets. cause the intonation is good for the octave. and i measured the scale length and setup using the numbers i found and tweaked it from that standard. but i think i fixed it. i was always told to capo as close to the fret as possible....but i found when i tried to capo 'on' the fret it didnt screw up the tuning, which is what leads me to think high fret is the problem. so if i tune on the fret it works.

just to be safe, any reason not to capo on the fret, is it bad for the guitar?

mccreadyisgod

I don't think there's anything wrong with placing the capo directly on the fret, so long as it seats correctly. I always place the capo directly behind the fret, so it puts the most down-pressure on the fret itself, which makes for a good seat. But if you get enough pressure the way you're using it, and the strings are able to ring freely, then I say go for it.

Like Bob said within my post above... don't be afraid to put the capo on and THEN tune the guitar... sometimes, that's the way you gotta do things. Bob also wanted me to tell you that you shouldn't leave the capo on the fret for a long time, because the pressure between the strings and fret will wear your fret out faster (not to mention wear out the strings faster). So go ahead and do it if it works, just take the capo off when you're done!