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Curt Schilling HOF?? No way.

WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,923
edited January 2013 in All Encompassing Trip
I just don't see Schilling as HOF-worthy, yet the media always wants to say "next stop, Cooperstown." Sure, he's won a few rings but look who he compares to:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp2.cgi?I=schilcu01:Curt+Schilling&st=career

Dazzy Vance is a little before my time :D but the only other comparable pitcher in the Hall is Drysdale. Big D has a significantly better ERA, twice the complete games and two and half times the number of shutouts.

Am I prejudiced because I think Schilling a pompous, self-righteous ass? Yes. :D
If I had known then what I know now...

Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    isn't it bad enough the ketchup sock is in the hall?

    i guess if madonna is in the r&r hof anything's possible :rolleyes:
  • Stone Is GodStone Is God Posts: 1,331
    imalive wrote:
    I just don't see Schilling as HOF-worthy, yet the media always wants to say "next stop, Cooperstown." Sure, he's won a few rings but look who he compares to:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp2.cgi?I=schilcu01:Curt+Schilling&st=career

    Dazzy Vance is a little before my time :D but the only other comparable pitcher in the Hall is Drysdale. Big D has a significantly better ERA, twice the complete games and two and half times the number of shutouts.

    Am I prejudiced because I think Schilling a pompous, self-righteous ass? Yes. :D

    You really can't compare because of the different times. Back then there were no closers and pitchers basically always pitched CG's.

    Schilling also played on some very shitty teams in the 90's.

    I think he can be a douche too but I think his post season numbers should give him heavy consideration.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me.
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    Schilling is a jack ass of the highest order, and his regular season numbers make him a borderline HOFer at best.

    BUT:

    His post season record, era, and HYPE (legitimate in my opinion), could or should put him over the top.

    He will probably get in on his 8th try or something, but voters love to give players the October bump.


    Schilling gets in on that. IMO.
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    On Hall of Fame standards, everyone above him gets in (Including Moose, with two more good years), and Smoltz who is right after him. This does not include his Post Season heroics.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_standard.shtml

    Same applies for his Hall of Fame Monitor:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

    More fuel for his case.
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Schilling is also 14th alltime in strike outs, has the best strikeout to walk ratio in history, and the only player to win World Series games with three different teams.

    He'll get in eventually like Jim Rice will next year.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    Solat13 wrote:
    Schilling is also 14th alltime in strike outs, has the best strikeout to walk ratio in history, and the only player to win World Series games with three different teams.

    He'll get in eventually like Jim Rice will next year.

    it's Jim Ed's year next year ... FINALLY!
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 12,810
    200 wins, 3000 strikeouts, 3 world series wins, and an 11-2 post season record

    I think that ought to do it

    edit 3000 strikeouts alone is almost enough
  • petrocspetrocs Posts: 4,342
    Solat13 wrote:
    Schilling is also 14th alltime in strike outs, has the best strikeout to walk ratio in history, and the only player to win World Series games with three different teams.

    He'll get in eventually like Jim Rice will next year.

    Arizona, Boston and who?
    Shows:
    9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
    10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,204
    petrocs wrote:
    Arizona, Boston and who?

    maybe philly ??
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    josevolution wrote:
    maybe philly ??

    Yep, in 1993
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 12,810
    josevolution wrote:
    maybe philly ??
    nah one with the dbacks and two with boston
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    petrocs wrote:
    Arizona, Boston and who?

    went to the ws with philly but didn't win
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Posts: 9,230
    josevolution wrote:
    maybe philly ??

    Phillies in 1993. He pitched a five-hitter in Game Five to keep the series alive.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    cutback wrote:
    went to the ws with philly but didn't win

    I never said he won the Series in Philly.

    He's the only pitcher who has won a World Series Game with three different teams.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,204
    Solat13 wrote:
    Yep, in 1993

    so wouldn't that make 4 ??
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • petrocspetrocs Posts: 4,342
    Solat13 wrote:
    I never said he won the Series in Philly.

    He's the only pitcher who has won a World Series Game with three different teams.

    ah I misread...sorry
    Shows:
    9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
    10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Solat13 wrote:
    I never said he won the Series in Philly.

    He's the only pitcher who has won a World Series Game with three different teams.

    yeah gotcha.....just was answering petrocs ?? :)
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,923
    Solat13 wrote:
    and the only player to win World Series games with three different teams.

    Yeah, but that's just a fluky stat. He has 216 wins and 146 loses, over 20 years. Average season would be 10-7. BFD.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • chromiamchromiam Posts: 4,114
    He comes off as an asshole but there are plenty of them in the HOF and he'll join them one day.... Actually a nice guy in person.
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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,923
    chromiam wrote:
    He comes off as an asshole but there are plenty of them in the HOF and he'll join them one day.... Actually a nice guy in person.
    His personality - which I don't like - has nothing to do with it. The numbers just aren't there, IMHO. :p
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    imalive wrote:
    Yeah, but that's just a fluky stat. He has 216 wins and 146 loses, over 20 years. Average season would be 10-7. BFD.

    To be fair, he was a reliever for four of those and missed half of three seasons to injuries so I think you're slightly discounting his numbers. ;)
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    imalive wrote:
    His personality - which I don't like - has nothing to do with it. The numbers just aren't there, IMHO. :p

    He has more wins than Don Drysdale and didn't have the luxury of pitching every 4 days instead of five.

    If I had to rank current pitchers in terms of HOF probability of getting in:

    1) Maddux
    2) Randy Johnson
    3) Pedro
    4) Glavine
    5) Smoltz
    6) Schilling
    7) Mussina

    I don't think Mussina gets in because he doesn't have the post season heroics Schilling does.

    Schilling gets in like the 10th or 12th ballot. The first 5 are all locks.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • FrankieJFrankieJ Posts: 602
    no
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    GO DEVILS
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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,923
    Solat13 wrote:
    He has more wins than Don Drysdale and didn't have the luxury of pitching every 4 days instead of five.

    If I had to rank current pitchers in terms of HOF probability of getting in:

    1) Maddux
    2) Randy Johnson
    3) Pedro
    4) Glavine
    5) Smoltz
    6) Schilling
    7) Mussina

    I don't think Mussina gets in because he doesn't have the post season heroics Schilling does.

    Schilling gets in like the 10th or 12th ballot. The first 5 are all locks.

    "the luxury"? That wuss Schilling would never make it! :D

    Seriously, your rankings look right on.

    How 'bout my boy Bonds? Does he get in? :eek:
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    imalive wrote:
    "the luxury"? That wuss Schilling would never make it! :D

    Seriously, your rankings look right on.

    How 'bout my boy Bonds? Does he get in? :eek:

    How much does a ticket cost?
  • Fighting HellfishFighting Hellfish Posts: 3,166
    no chance. at this point, Mike Mussina is probably not a HOF'er, and he pitched his whole career in a tougher division. To equal Mussina's record, Schilling would have to go 53-7. Schilling has played 3 more years, and has 53 less wins.
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Fighting Hellfish wrote:
    no chance. at this point, Mike Mussina is probably not a HOF'er, and he pitched his whole career in a tougher division. To equal Mussina's record, Schilling would have to go 53-7. Schilling has played 3 more years, and has 53 less wins.

    Won-Loss is not everything and neither has any Cy Youngs

    Mussina has the better record, but only led the league in wins once, no era titles and no strikeout titles, no 20 win seasons, only 1 top 3 in CY Young, no World Series rings, 5 allstar games and 6 gold gloves. Mussina also had 99 more starts in his career, but less strikeouts and played for better teams during his career.

    Schilling led the league in wins twice, no era titles, and has 2 strikeout titles, 3 20 win seasons, 3 top 3 cy young finishes, 3 world series rings, 6 allstar games a NLCS MVP and a World Series MVP.

    When you stack up resumes, other than wins and gold gloves, Mussina pales in comparison to Schilling.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • Fighting HellfishFighting Hellfish Posts: 3,166
    fair points all, but I just don't see a guy with 216 getting in. Bert Blyleven has 287 and he's not in. And like I said, Mussina probably won't get in. and he's going for 270 Sunday. Plus a lot of voters don't like Schilling. Not to mention you have to suspect steroids with tendons falling off. That doesn't happen to people who are clean
  • Strangest TribeStrangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    3000 strikeouts is like 500 HR's

    and Steve Carlton was a douchebag

    yeah Schilling is a first ballot HOFer
    the Minions
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Fighting Hellfish wrote:
    fair points all, but I just don't see a guy with 216 getting in. Bert Blyleven has 287 and he's not in. And like I said, Mussina probably won't get in. and he's going for 270 Sunday. Plus a lot of voters don't like Schilling. Not to mention you have to suspect steroids with tendons falling off. That doesn't happen to people who are clean

    By that argument, Pedro with 214 doesn't get in and he's more of a lock than Schilling or Mussina by far.

    Schilling has a history of injuries. He had a bum shoulder that caused him to miss half of 94 and 95 with the Phillies so the fact that his shoulder tendon was done at age 41 really doesn't make one suspect steroids. And that was part of the reason that Baltimore and Houston thought Schilling would be better as a reliever early in his career.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
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