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Is it weird that 'pick and roll' basketball is called 'double-teaming'?

harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
edited October 2008 in All Encompassing Trip
Two-on-one pick and roll offence, double-teaming?

I can't get used to that... sorry :D
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,689
    Your inuendo is out of control today ;)
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    only in your weird little mind mark. not even im that warped enough for that to be of concern. :p:D
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  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    whats even worse is man-on-man defense.
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  • ReleaseMe...ReleaseMe... Posts: 494
    unless i am missing something....

    its two completely different things in basketball, so its not "calling" it the same thing

    must be an inside joke
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  • NoCode_inMTNoCode_inMT Posts: 551
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    whats even worse is man-on-man defense.

    Or when a player penatrates the defense. :D
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  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,689
    NoCode_inMT wrote:
    Or when a player penatrates the defense. :D
    Or when another player clogs the lane.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    ReleaseMe... wrote:
    unless i am missing something....

    its two completely different things in basketball, so its not "calling" it the same thing

    must be an inside joke

    According to my understanding (granted, it's wheelchair basketball, but same principle I'm told) a pick and roll happens when a defender is forced to the edge of the court by two offending players, as a distraction so that the Forward can get round to the basket for a lay up.

    The two-on-one offence, two players 'picking' one to mark, is often referred to as double-teaming. I don't think I got anything wrong.. correct me if I did :)
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    According to my understanding (granted, it's wheelchair basketball, but same principle I'm told) a pick and roll happens when a defender is forced to the edge of the court by two offending players, as a distraction so that the Forward can get round to the basket for a lay up.

    The two-on-one offence, two players 'picking' one to mark, is often referred to as double-teaming. I don't think I got anything wrong.. correct me if I did :)
    okay ill correct you. :)

    the pick and roll is an OFFENSIVE move. double teaming is a DEFENSIVE move.


    in a pick and roll, the ball 'carrier' manouevres a defender into a set screen in order to 'roll' away from the defense and give himself more room to move to shoot or whatever.

    a double team is simply a 2 on 1 defense forcing the ball 'carrier' to change his intended play. can also be a bit of a gamble cause it leaves one man open on the offensive team.
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  • jasonwjasonw Posts: 424
    catefrances wrote:
    okay ill correct you. :)

    the pick and roll is an OFFENSIVE move. double teaming is a DEFENSIVE move.


    in a pick and roll, the ball 'carrier' manouevres a defender into a set screen in order to 'roll' away from the defense and give himself more room to move to shoot or whatever.

    a double team is simply a 2 on 1 defense forcing the ball 'carrier' to change his intended play. can also be a bit of a gamble cause it leaves one man open on the offensive team.

    Ok I'll correct you :)

    You got the first part right, but it is the person who sets the screen that rolls to the hoop after their man has to switch to the player with the ball.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    catefrances wrote:
    okay ill correct you. :)

    the pick and roll is an OFFENSIVE move. double teaming is a DEFENSIVE move.

    Not sure I said any different, although double teaming can also describe the 'pick' in a wheelchair game as it is performed by two players seperately to the offending Forward.
    catefrances wrote:
    in a pick and roll, the ball 'carrier' manouevres a defender into a set screen in order to 'roll' away from the defense and give himself more room to move to shoot or whatever.

    OK, I think it's different in the wheelchair game though as the offensive 'pick' is usually carried out by two chairs, to create a distraction for another to perform the 'roll' towards the basket. The difference seems to be that in the running game, a single runner has the speed and agility to perform both moves by himself.
    catefrances wrote:
    a double team is simply a 2 on 1 defense forcing the ball 'carrier' to change his intended play.

    Yep, true.. as above, I think that the 'pick' can also be described as a double team in the wheelchair game as it requires two players.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    jasonw wrote:
    Ok I'll correct you :)

    You got the first part right, but it is the person who sets the screen that rolls to the hoop after their man has to switch to the player with the ball.

    yeah i can see that. i was thinking along the lines of the ball carrier rolling away from the screen in order to shoot if that is permissable or pass the ball off to another tean mate. but yes youre correct. the screen can roll into a nice rebounding position for example.
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  • jasonwjasonw Posts: 424
    catefrances wrote:
    yeah i can see that. i was thinking along the lines of the ball carrier rolling away from the screen in order to shoot if that is permissable or pass the ball off to another tean mate. but yes youre correct. the screen can roll into a nice rebounding position for example.

    The screener rolls to the hoop for a pass.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    jasonw wrote:
    The screener rolls to the hoop for a pass.

    maybe, but not necessarily. it depends.
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  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    If only basketball practice was as easy and fun as talking about it....

    Got practice later. More drills. Urrgh... let's hope I can figure out what the fook I'm doing this time.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • jasonwjasonw Posts: 424
    catefrances wrote:
    maybe, but not necessarily. it depends.


    That is the exact definition of a pick and roll, the "roll" part has nothing to do with the ball handler.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    jasonw wrote:
    That is the exact definition of a pick and roll, the "roll" part has nothing to do with the ball handler.

    yeah well im hardly gonna pass it back to the 'rolling' screen if my shooting guard or small forward for that matter, is not otherwise occupied, and is open for a shot, now am i?
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  • jasonwjasonw Posts: 424
    catefrances wrote:
    yeah well im hardly gonna pass it back to the 'rolling' screen if my shooting guard or small forward for that matter, is not otherwise occupied, and is open for a shot, now am i?

    UMmm huh? I don't see what this has to do with what we were discussing. Would you ignore a wide open player? Of course not, but why would the shooting guard or small forward be wide open? I'm just explaining what a pick and roll is, and the "roll" part refers to the screener rolling to the basket, not the ball handler "rolling" around the screener or however you said it.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    jasonw wrote:
    UMmm huh? I don't see what this has to do with what we were discussing. Would you ignore a wide open player? Of course not, but why would the shooting guard or small forward be wide open? I'm just explaining what a pick and roll is, and the "roll" part refers to the screener rolling to the basket, not the ball handler "rolling" around the screener or however you said it.

    i know. im just thinking ahead is all. :)

    and as i said if i had to choose between the screen, who could well be a #4 or #5 and another player who is also open or in a position to recieve the ball, then im going with the other player.

    anyhoo im agreeing with you on the technicality, believe it or not, so shut up. :p:D
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  • EvilMerlinEvilMerlin Posts: 1,865
    catefrances wrote:
    i know. im just thinking ahead is all. :)

    and as i said if i had to choose between the screen, who could well be a #4 or #5 and another player who is also open or in a position to recieve the ball, then im going with the other player.

    anyhoo im agreeing with you on the technicality, believe it or not, so shut up. :p:D


    However if you choose to go to another player, or shoot yourself, and not go to the rolling player, then a pick and roll was never executed. As Jasonw was saying, that's not a pick and roll.

    That's just another player setting a pick. You must pick, seal your defender, have an open lane for the pass and finish. Then you've had a pick and roll.

    :)
  • pjwhipjwhi Posts: 31
    I get so pissed at the NBA/College guys (and guys on my JV team) when they do not "seal" their man off using proper footwork. This play is basically unstoppable when performed correctly.

    The problem nowadays is that most coaches at the younger ages are so focused on "winning the game" instead of teaching fundamentals, it's the little things like sealing screens that no longer exist in the game at the higher levels, and that's why the NBA sucks!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    EvilMerlin wrote:
    However if you choose to go to another player, or shoot yourself, and not go to the rolling player, then a pick and roll was never executed. As Jasonw was saying, that's not a pick and roll.

    That's just another player setting a pick. You must pick, seal your defender, have an open lane for the pass and finish. Then you've had a pick and roll.

    :)

    i disagree.
    if the pick has been set and the defender makes contact, the screen pivots, and rolls toward the basket. this is the pick and roll play, no? if for some reason the defender chooses to stay on the screen and a clean pass cant be executed back to him, i dont see how that negates the pick and roll move.
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