Olympic Torch Get's Put Out .

josevolution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7334545.stm

IN PARIS,they had to put it to transport it on a bus good luck gettin to china ...

nfanel

i saw the footage of the woman carrying the torch in london get brought down by protesters. they said the government-controlled media in china reported that all went smoothly. that's pretty crazy.

reeferchief

Bottom line: People are fucked up.

catefrances

reeferchief wrote:

Bottom line: People are fucked up.

do you speak of the protestors? or just people in general?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Tibet is a genocide, so is Israel, so is Darfur... and I'm probably forgetting about more than a few other running genocides we have going on right now...

Satchell

I recognize that the fact of trying to stop the flame which is a symbol of freedom is questionable.

BUT ... you have to know that last monday in PARIS, this flame is highly protected by French policemen UNDER the orders of chinese secret service/ambassad.
They have made remove EVERY single tibetan flag all alon the road (18 km). Any people showing such a flag and oposing resistance was arrested !!!!!.
ANY tibetan sign or whatever has been meticulously extracted on the flame path.
Furthermore, Chinese secret service men, decided at any time to stop the procession, turn off the flame, cancell some important phases of the celebration without asking / telling a single word to the Olypis organisation.

Our impression here is that this torch was an hostage !!

And what have shocked more than the rest (here in France and in our medias) is that for the first time in years, we've had to support non-democratic behaviour on our territory.
People have been beaten, trying to express their opinion.
Reporters from french TV chanel has been knocked, punched for trying to film such scenes ... all these order being given by chinese authorities, through the flame bodyguards to the policemen.

This is much more than questionable. this is dangerous.

And i'm curious to see how all these olypic game will finish ... i mean ... what are going to be the rights of our athletes when they are there ...

Hope this flame will also be contested in the USA ...

dunkman

yeah like the president of China is sitting there going "hmmmm... i must evacuate all my troops out of Tibet because someone put out a flame"

reminds me of the story about some shitty London college writing a letter to Saddam Hussein asking him to stop bombing the Kurds... i bet he was shitting himself ... "ohhhh nooo a letter from Croydon Economics College!!!!! i must stop killing people or they will never stop writing letters!!"


the olympics is NOT the place for political protests imo.

eyedclaar

I thought they had to start the whole damn trek over if the flame was put out...

PJ_Saluki

dunkman wrote:

yeah like the president of China is sitting there going "hmmmm... i must evacuate all my troops out of Tibet because someone put out a flame"

reminds me of the story about some shitty London college writing a letter to Saddam Hussein asking him to stop bombing the Kurds... i bet he was shitting himself ... "ohhhh nooo a letter from Croydon Economics College!!!!! i must stop killing people or they will never stop writing letters!!"


the olympics is NOT the place for political protests imo.

It might not be the place, but it sure as hell seems like the place. Sorry if that's circular, it's just the Olympics are one of the few events that grab the attention of the entire world. One of the coolest pics ever is the one of Tommie Smith and John Carlos' raised fists on the medal stand:

http://i.infoplease.com/images/blackpower.jpg

What's fucked about this situation is that the crooked-ass IOC gave the Chinese the Olympics in the first place. People may criticize some of the stupid to reprehensible shit the U.S. does, but those communist assholes make us look like the love child of Mary Poppins and Albert Fucking Einstein.

I hope the Chinese Olympics are a complete debacle.

failedpersephone

I respectfully disagree - the Olympics is the perfect place to protest Human Rights violations perpetuated by the Chinese government.

They want the world stage - but they also want to feed it through their lenses...where else can Tibet and Burma be mentioned?

I hope that as it makes it's way around the US, we act accordingly.


The Olympics themselves (being held in China) should be considered an act against the very meaning of the games...I am boycotting the Olympics, and any Corporation that is aiding the Chinese Government in their duplicity.

*I would like to note that I DO see the hypocrisy of my above statements when it comes to my own government, but I do in fact protest my OWN culpability when it comes to Human Rights.

dunkman

the olympics are about sporting achievements and global participation... china in tibet is a political situation that needs sorting on that level.

300 folk waving a flag isnt going to deter them

must be a huge honour to carry the Olympic torch... and yet its being ruined by idiots trying to take the torch off the person holding it.

its a torch that doesnt represent China... it represents the Olympics... which is a great event

TrixieCat

dunkman wrote:

the olympics are about sporting achievements and global participation... china in tibet is a political situation that needs sorting on that level.

300 folk waving a flag isnt going to deter them

must be a huge honour to carry the Olympic torch... and yet its being ruined by idiots trying to take the torch off the person holding it.

its a torch that doesnt represent China... it represents the Olympics... which is a great event

I saw the Olympic torch passed right in front of me a few years back. It was so awesome. I have my own reasons for being disgusted with China...I don't need to add this on top of it.

failedpersephone

I agree that 300 people waving a flag isn't going to deter China regarding their human rights practices...but those 300 are saying something to the world...and the fact that the Olympic committee is allowing China to host, in a way condones the behavior...

most protests do not have any solid results. that is not the true point of protesting...taking a stand just to say "I see behind your mask" THAT is the point.


I am a huge fan of the Olympics...I find it enlightening to see athletes on the world stage participating...and you are correct in avowing that it is not a political event...but the stage is set - and I firmly believe that a microscope must be held up to the world regarding the host country's myriad of violations.

I don't think of the human rights issues as being a "political football" it is more than that...we arent talking about embargos and taxes...we are talking about religious persecution, and genocide.

eyedclaar

failedpersephone wrote:

I agree that 300 people waving a flag isn't going to deter China regarding their human rights practices...but those 300 are saying something to the world...and the fact that the Olympic committee is allowing China to host, in a way condones the behavior...

most protests do not have any solid results. that is not the true point of protesting...taking a stand just to say "I see behind your mask" THAT is the point.


I am a huge fan of the Olympics...I find it enlightening to see athletes on the world stage participating...and you are correct in avowing that it is not a political event...but the stage is set - and I firmly believe that a microscope must be held up to the world regarding the host country's myriad of violations.

I don't think of the human rights issues as being a "political football" it is more than that...we arent talking about embargos and taxes...we are talking about religious persecution, and genocide.

Damn, I never thought you were serious enough about anything to be this articulate. Preach on, Sista! What we shoud be doing is figuring out a way to ressurect Jesse Owens so can compete in every event the Chinese do.

You thought he kicked some serious Nazi ass the first time around - just wait for the sequel!

PJ_Saluki

I don't know who it'll be, but I'm nearly certain that an athlete in the Olympics will take a political stand on China during the Games. He or she will catch equal parts praise and hell. I'm also pretty sure that an athlete will take a political stand on the U.S.

Quick question: Is Iraq fielding an Olympic team?

failedpersephone

eyedclaar wrote:

Damn, I never thought you were serious enough about anything to be this articulate. Preach on, Sista! What we shoud be doing is figuring out a way to ressurect Jesse Owens so can compete in every event the Chinese do.

You thought he kicked some serious Nazi ass the first time around - just wait for the sequel!

Muahahahaa...
you reminded me...
bewbies bewbies!!!


nooooodle!

*ahhhh, now I feel better.

See, the Jesse Owens thing - causes a mixed set of feelings...yes! he did show the Nazi's that their brand of "human perfection" and class system was flawed...but not in any significant way...that is, it didn't make the nazi's think in terms of humanizing non-"Arian" whites.

also, it didn't showcase the idea that Jesse Owens was participating as an American Representative for a society that still had horrifying segregation issues...and monetary oppression.

I prefer to think in terms of the power salute...and find it wonderful that they were BANNED for that salute. The infamy belongs not to the athletes who engaged in saluting the flag with a symbol of their refusal to continue to be dominated by a society - it belongs firmly with the Olympic committee that decreed such an act was bannable.

Get_Right

there is one good reason to support the Beijing olympics

While the PRC's political stance on tibet is outrageous and the military actions even more apalling, there are a large number of American athletes the deserve and need our support. So until the USOC decides to boycott, I am supporting our athletes and will let the politicians (unfortunately) deal with the PRC.


But it is a perfect stage for protesting the PRC's outrageous practices and think protesters should be allowed to voice their opinions. Of course, the olympics are being held in a country that does not allow free speech, so that wont happen.

samick

dunkman wrote:

yeah like the president of China is sitting there going "hmmmm... i must evacuate all my troops out of Tibet because someone put out a flame"

reminds me of the story about some shitty London college writing a letter to Saddam Hussein asking him to stop bombing the Kurds... i bet he was shitting himself ... "ohhhh nooo a letter from Croydon Economics College!!!!! i must stop killing people or they will never stop writing letters!!"


the olympics is NOT the place for political protests imo.

It's more about the media exposure to certain causes i think.......thats why people do things like trying to put the flame out......

catefrances

eyedclaar wrote:

I thought they had to start the whole damn trek over if the flame was put out...

the torch relay is accompanied always by an eternal flame(which is kept safe) lit in greece. when the torch is snuffed out for whatever reason it is relit from this eternal flame.

fyi. in 2000, the torch was extinguished several times by wayward aussies. was it some sort of protest? nope. much like streaking at the cricket, it was just something to do. im sure there are other instances where the torch got put out during other relays throughout the years.

as for the olympics not being the place for protest. i have to disagree. i think they are the perfect forum for protest. the audience is wide and sports should not be so sacred that it is separate from the world. to say sports and politics shouldnt mix is a cop out in my opinion. why should the olympic games(the biggest circus on earth) be exempt as if its some sort of untouchable cow?

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

as for the olympics not being the place for protest. i have to disagree. i think they are the perfect forum for protest. the audience is wide and sports should not be so sacred that it is separate from the world. to say sports and politics shouldnt mix is a cop out in my opinion. why should the olympic games(the biggest circus on earth) be exempt as if its some sort of untouchable cow?

totally disagree... the olympics are meant to be about peace and hope... hence the olive crown when they win.. by turning it into a political forum just sums up the mob culture of the world today imo.

also because its unfair on the athletes who have devoted their lives to appearing on that world stage. imagining being given the honour of carrying the olympic torch and then have some 47 year old hippie trying to grab it off you... personally i would have burned the guy with it... but thats me

i couldnt care if people protest by waving banners, flags or effigies or shite like that... but putting out the flame is boring and inane.

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

totally disagree... the olympics are meant to be about peace and hope... hence the olive crown when they win.. by turning it into a political forum just sums up the mob culture of the world today imo.

also because its unfair on the athletes who have devoted their lives to appearing on that world stage. imagining being given the honour of carrying the olympic torch and then have some 47 year old hippie trying to grab it off you... personally i would have burned the guy with it... but thats me

i couldnt care if people protest by waving banners, flags or effigies or shite like that... but putting out the flame is boring and inane.

yes thats right dunk, the olympics are meant to be about peace and hope. unfortunately over time i think that message which has been superceded by something else, is ignored except when it is convenient to trot it out to bolster one's own agenda. you are talking about a multi million dollar business now.

and jeez... sports have always been political, even the beloved olympic games. where the original criteria of amatuerism(which in itself is political) has been replaced by pampered professionals, some of whom actually refused to be billetted in the olympic athlete village.

gobrowns19

I can see both points to this. I think protesting should be done. Putting a flame out? No, probably not. But protesting, or course, as long as it's in line to a certain extent.

What I can't understand is why we have to fucking fight each other. I know everyone says that, but, comon. I almost wish there was some other species from another planet to attack us so we could all bond together.

But maybe make it a Chess match, I really wouldn't want anyone to kill or be killed.

failedpersephone

Olympic floor gymnastics gold medalist Kyle Shewfelt of Canada said on his Web site that the games should be about the athletes.

"Why is it OK to even consider sacrificing athletes' dreams on behalf of making a statement?" he wrote."I know that there are some human rights violations taking place in Tibet and the Dalai Lama is speaking out. This sounds so naive and jaded, but there is only so much time in the day and I have been spending most of mine preparing myself to be at my peak in August," Shewfelt said.


sorry but that above statement really just bothers me.

Cosmo

I bet that torch contains extremely high levels of lead.

drivingrl

That torch has a long way to go.

catefrances

failedpersephone wrote:

Olympic floor gymnastics gold medalist Kyle Shewfelt of Canada said on his Web site that the games should be about the athletes.

"Why is it OK to even consider sacrificing athletes' dreams on behalf of making a statement?" he wrote."I know that there are some human rights violations taking place in Tibet and the Dalai Lama is speaking out. This sounds so naive and jaded, but there is only so much time in the day and I have been spending most of mine preparing myself to be at my peak in August," Shewfelt said.


sorry but that above statement really just bothers me.

bothers me too fp.

perhaps mr shewfelt would like to spare a thought for the israeli athletes taken hostage at munich. not to mention the tibetans who are suppressed and killed every day. sports are not devoid of politics. they never have been.