The Gay Gene on 20/20

acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
edited March 2008 in All Encompassing Trip
They are looking into whether you are born gay or not.

Of course you are! And so what.
In this day and age how could you not think so.
I don't want this thread to be a area for gay bashing or a huge debate.
Be mature here people.
Look at the kid on Who's the Boss. Watching him you knew he was gay and he was like 9 years old.
I have a daughter and I would like her to be straight and have a family. But if not no big deal. I would love my kids either way
Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
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Comments

  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    They are looking into whether you are born gay or not.

    Of course you are! And so what.
    In this day and age how could you not think so.
    I don't want this thread to be a area for gay bashing or a huge debate.
    Be mature here people.
    Look at the kid on Who's the Boss. Watching him you knew he was gay and he was like 9 years old.
    I have a daughter and I would like her to be straight and have a family. But if not no big deal. I would love my kids either way

    Hopefully by the time your daughter is an adult, people can (more easily) have families regardless of their orientation!

    And yeah...it's so completely and utterly obvious that people are born the way they are. I can't even believe it's up for debate.

    The thing that is scary about the idea of "finding" the "gay gene" is that you KNOW there are families out there that would terminate a pregnancy if it were something that could be detected before birth. (Of course that is obviously a futuristic hypothetical situation, but it's something to think about!)
  • Oh jeeeez. One of my best friends in school was bi sexual and my mum was terrified that she'd turn me gay! AHAHA The older generation can be so funny. :D
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    cancer - kills people every day

    aids kills people every day


    thank god they're are spending money on researching this horseshit

    :rolleyes:
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    cutback wrote:
    cancer - kills people every day

    aids kills people every day


    thank god they're are spending money on researching this horseshit

    :rolleyes:

    I agree with you on one hand. The only valid reason I see for researching this, though, is the potential for someday quieting assholes who insist that it's a choice and, therefore, the wrong choice.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    See I don't understand why people are so insistent on the whole gay gene thing. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think everybody is a product of their childhood, and different experiences shape different aspects of our personality, sexuality is just an aspect of your personality. If you look at serial killers for example, you usually find they've had really messed up childhoods, and the vast majority of paedophiles have usually been abused themselves as children. So if certain sets of circumstances can produce something as extreme as that, I don't think it's much of a stretch to see that certain circumstances could affect somebody's sexuality. Please don't think I'm in any way equating homosexuality with paedophilia or serial killers, it's just an example.

    What I don't like is the implication that if it's not a pre-determined genetic thing, then it must be a lifestyle choice. Quite the opposite, I think any influences on sexuality are going to be on a completely sub-conscious level.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    I agree with you on one hand. The only valid reason I see for researching this, though, is the potential for someday quieting assholes who insist that it's a choice and, therefore, the wrong choice.

    true but the assholes will always be assholes..... just think the resources could be better spent....
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    cutback wrote:
    true but the assholes will always be assholes..... just think the resources could be better spent....

    Yeah, I know what you're saying.

    We need to find the asshole gene, and then start eliminating those. ;)
  • The thing that is scary about the idea of "finding" the "gay gene" is that you KNOW there are families out there that would terminate a pregnancy if it were something that could be detected before birth.

    yeah it'd be the hypocritical "pro-life, family values, jesus love everyone except you" people.
    <a href="http://www.shawnsmithsinger.com">Shawn Smith</a> / <a href="http://www.thebandbrad.com">Brad</a&gt; / <a href="http://www.allhailthecrown.com">All Hail the Crown</a> / <a href="http://www.satchelpartnership.com">Satchel</a&gt;

    (Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)
  • I'm going to try to be easy without trying to sound sarcastic....

    So, if you are bi-sexual? How does that come from your childhood? It would lead me to believe that someone is confused about their sexuality- but a few of my friends don't seem to be confused. Any thoughts?
    I will hold the candle until it burns up my arm. I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired. I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind. I won't change direction and I won't change my mind.
  • in_hiding79in_hiding79 Posts: 4,315
    "Congratulations, you are fags"


    that South Park Quote for the Guitar Hero episode was great!!! ;)
    And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
    "What a stupid lamb."
    "What a sick, masochistic lion."
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    I'd like to hear god's comment on the existence of the gay gene since obviously He would have been the one to create it. Certainly He would never create anything gay, other than small dogs. It is a damn crime that Job Jr's gospel of geneology was omitted from the New Testament back in the day.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • in_hiding79in_hiding79 Posts: 4,315
    Songburst wrote:
    I'd like to hear god's comment on the existence of the gay gene since obviously He would have been the one to create it. Certainly He would never create anything gay, other than small dogs. It is a damn crime that Job Jr's gospel of geneology was omitted from the New Testament back in the day.


    Come to think of it, my little chihuahua might be gay!! ;)
    And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
    "What a stupid lamb."
    "What a sick, masochistic lion."
  • It's unbelievable how many people believe that homosexuals choose to be gay. Genes.

    A year ago, I got together with a bunch of friends and we met one of our friend's new boyfriends. By the end of the night, most of us were convinced that he was gay. I've had two friends who were in long-term relationships (one for over 9 years) with men who eventually came out of the closet, so I thought, "Here we go again". Turns out, the boyfriend has three brothers, two of whom are gay, including his twin brother.
    No time to be void or save up on life. You got to spend it all.
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    See I don't understand why people are so insistent on the whole gay gene thing. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think everybody is a product of their childhood, and different experiences shape different aspects of our personality, sexuality is just an aspect of your personality. If you look at serial killers for example, you usually find they've had really messed up childhoods, and the vast majority of paedophiles have usually been abused themselves as children. So if certain sets of circumstances can produce something as extreme as that, I don't think it's much of a stretch to see that certain circumstances could affect somebody's sexuality. Please don't think I'm in any way equating homosexuality with paedophilia or serial killers, it's just an example.

    What I don't like is the implication that if it's not a pre-determined genetic thing, then it must be a lifestyle choice. Quite the opposite, I think any influences on sexuality are going to be on a completely sub-conscious level.

    Most serial killers had an abusive upbringing, but many serial killers are now being discovered to have major imbalances in brain chemistry. For example, some serial killers are almost completely missing a certain chemical in the brain that controls the intensity of anger that we experience.

    Lots of people grow up in abusive homes. However, I think it's the combination of abusive upbringing and the chemical imbalances that create a serial killer.

    And, yes, pedophiles generally are a product of their environment.

    However, what makes homosexuals different is that most of them are not brought up in a homosexual environment or in an environment that is especially tolerant of homosexuality. Some are, but most aren't.

    So that's why the upbringing/environment factor does not logically apply to homosexuality.
  • reeferchiefreeferchief Posts: 3,569
    It's unbelievable how many people believe that homosexuals choose to be gay. Genes.

    A year ago, I got together with a bunch of friends and we met one of our friend's new boyfriends. By the end of the night, most of us were convinced that he was gay. I've had two friends who were in long-term relationships (one for over 9 years) with men who eventually came out of the closet, so I thought, "Here we go again". Turns out, the boyfriend has three brothers, two of whom are gay, including his twin brother.

    people may be born gay and have the "gay gene", but they can still be in denial and try to deny it, growing up in a situation where they wont feel accepted by friends/family etc.
    A guy who comes in my pub was married and has a daughter, he is now gay and I've seen a lot of his friends have a hard time accepting it and his boyfriend, the guy who turned is your average football loving, one of the lads type, his boyfriend is the flamboyant in your face gay, there is more manley women come in the pub than him, it is interesting to observe reactions and the what not.
    Can not be arsed with life no more.
  • brainofmebrainofme Posts: 231
    there are studies which show that all sort of animals, like sheep, penguins or certain monkeys and many more are homosexual, bisexual or whatever.
    we are just another type of animal. it's in their genes as it is in ours. it's just normal as nature shows.
    Vienna, Austria 2006
    Munich, Germany 2007
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    sponger wrote:
    Most serial killers had an abusive upbringing, but many serial killers are now being discovered to have major imbalances in brain chemistry. For example, some serial killers are almost completely missing a certain chemical in the brain that controls the intensity of anger that we experience.

    Lots of people grow up in abusive homes. However, I think it's the combination of abusive upbringing and the chemical imbalances that create a serial killer.

    And, yes, pedophiles generally are a product of their environment.

    However, what makes homosexuals different is that most of them are not brought up in a homosexual environment or in an environment that is especially tolerant of homosexuality. Some are, but most aren't.

    So that's why the upbringing/environment factor does not logically apply to homosexuality.

    You're thinking about it in a far too logical manner. If something effects you on a subconscious level, that means you are oblivious, so it IS NOT A CHOICE. I'll give an example. My mum is a child minder, and used to look after a boy from the age of about 6, it was quite apparent that he was very feminine, and people always said "I bet when he's older he'll be gay", sure enough at age 18 he came out. He was not raised in a 'homosexual' environment or one that was a particularly 'accepting' environment. His mother was incredibly overbearing, not helped by the fact that she suffered severe digestive disorders, and nearly died a number of times. His father chose to distance himself from them both, so there was complete absence of a father figure.

    People shouldn't underestimate the influence their parents have on them. They are our role models at a very young age, and even the tinest and seemingly insignificant events can have a profound effect on our behaviour in later life. You even admitted that you think paedophiles are a product of their environements, so if that sexual persuasion can be formed under certain circumstances, then why not homosexuality?

    To the person who asked about bi-sexuality, I don't think sexuality is a static thing, as much as people might protest it is. I think it's entirely possible that sexual confusion can be set in at a very early age. Or are you proposing a bi-sexual gene too? What about a gene for people who are sexualy attracted to animals? Or people who are attracted to children? Or people who get off on pain?

    Let me give an analogy, are you born with your musical tastes? Can you help the fact that dance music, or country music might drive you mad, yet you love rock music? You don't choose not to like them, you choose not to listen to them. Nobody can make you like those genres. When we are younger we have no frame of reference, we soak up experiences and react to environments with reference to the lessons we learn.

    I almost find the idea of a gay gene offensive to be honest. Not in that I don't think it's possible, but in the fact that people hang all their beliefs on it, because the only other option is that people 'choose' to be gay. It's like they are saying "they can't help it" as if there is something wrong with it.
  • reeferchiefreeferchief Posts: 3,569
    You're thinking about it in a far too logical manner. If something effects you on a subconscious level, that means you are oblivious, so it IS NOT A CHOICE. I'll give an example. My mum is a child minder, and used to look after a boy from the age of about 6, it was quite apparent that he was very feminine, and people always said "I bet when he's older he'll be gay", sure enough at age 18 he came out. He was not raised in a 'homosexual' environment or one that was a particularly 'accepting' environment. His mother was incredibly overbearing, not helped by the fact that she suffered severe digestive disorders, and nearly died a number of times. His father chose to distance himself from them both, so there was complete absence of a father figure.

    People shouldn't underestimate the influence their parents have on them. They are our role models at a very young age, and even the tinest and seemingly insignificant events can have a profound effect on our behaviour in later life. You even admitted that you think paedophiles are a product of their environements, so if that sexual persuasion can be formed under certain circumstances, then why not homosexuality?

    To the person who asked about bi-sexuality, I don't think sexuality is a static thing, as much as people might protest it is. I think it's entirely possible that sexual confusion can be set in at a very early age. Or are you proposing a bi-sexual gene too? What about a gene for people who are sexualy attracted to animals? Or people who are attracted to children? Or people who get off on pain?

    Let me give an analogy, are you born with your musical tastes? Can you help the fact that dance music, or country music might drive you mad, yet you love rock music? You don't choose not to like them, you choose not to listen to them. Nobody can make you like those genres. When we are younger we have no frame of reference, we soak up experiences and react to environments with reference to the lessons we learn.

    I almost find the idea of a gay gene offensive to be honest. Not in that I don't think it's possible, but in the fact that people hang all their beliefs on it, because the only other option is that people 'choose' to be gay. It's like they are saying "they can't help it" as if there is something wrong with it.

    Well put.:)
    Can not be arsed with life no more.
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    Come to think of it, my little chihuahua might be gay!! ;)

    Hahaha. Exactly.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    I was a little worried about tsarting this thread last night.
    I am glad we all can have a mature conversation once in a while ;)
    I am also glad to see that most of us are all on the same page with this topic.
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    I was a little worried about tsarting this thread last night.
    I am glad we all can have a mature conversation once in a while ;)
    I am also glad to see that most of us are all on the same page with this topic.

    I guess I'm not quite on the same page. Can I ask why you are so adament that there must be a gay gene?
  • reeferchiefreeferchief Posts: 3,569
    I guess I'm not quite on the same page. Can I ask why you are so adament that there must be a gay gene?

    What about the possability that some people just find someone they love and it just so happens to be that they are the same sex, love is blind it sees no sexuality.
    Can not be arsed with life no more.
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    One of my best friends is gay. He was the captain of our H.S. Football team, studied Sports Management, works for a baseball team.

    He is on the surface your typical beer drinking, caveman, intelligent, "regular" guy.

    His sister raised in the same environment is straight.

    When this discussion comes up with him or any of my other gay friends they all say the same thing. It is genetic.

    I'm no expert and I certainly don't think it is insulting to anyone to think this, but it seems to be the most common theory put out by gay people and most people who are not blinded by religion or other groups of judgmental people.

    I think the school of thought that it is a choice is put out there because people who think it is an abomination want to "change", or "fix" gay people.

    Now with all that said, I would guess some people do make a choice, and there probably is something to the well thought out argument that people can be sub conscientiously influenced.

    However I firmly believe that the overwhelming factor is some type of biochemistry that happens in the womb.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Wilds wrote:
    His sister raised in the same environment is straight.

    That means nothing though. I was raised in the same environment as my sisters, that doesn't mean we had the exact same experiences. Like I said before, even the tiniest seemingly insignificant experiences can have a profound effect on our behaviour in later life.

    I think the black and white nature of this argument is quite ridiculous. By commiting to the idea of a gay gene without considering any alternative, you are being just as narrow minded and ignorant as the religious nuts who blindly believe it's a conscious choice and therefore an abomination. The people who are rallying for the gay gene theory, almost seem desperate to prove religious people wrong that these people 'can't help how they are' as if it's some sort of affliction. Nobody chooses what they are attracted to.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    What about the possability that some people just find someone they love and it just so happens to be that they are the same sex, love is blind it sees no sexuality.

    I don't know, that's an interesting one. I have friends that I love in a friendship sort of way, but I'm not about to turn gay for them! I think you would need some sexual attraction too, I'm not sure love alone would change that. Of course I believe anything is possible in theory.
  • reeferchiefreeferchief Posts: 3,569
    I don't know, that's an interesting one. I have friends that I love in a friendship sort of way, but I'm not about to turn gay for them! I think you would need some sexual attraction too, I'm not sure love alone would change that. Of course I believe anything is possible in theory.

    Totally, I agree, I find it impossible to think of myself being with another man, I dont like penises, I find them ugly so the thought of touching or going near someonelse's is like a nightmare to me.:)

    I just think for some people though that is how it comes about, the long and short of it all though is things happen for many reasons, like my friend who I mentioned who was happily married with child and is now gay, I have no doubt in my mind he was not born gay as they say, most definitely turned.
    Can not be arsed with life no more.
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    That means nothing though. I was raised in the same environment as my sisters, that doesn't mean we had the exact same experiences. Like I said before, even the tiniest seemingly insignificant experiences can have a profound effect on our behaviour in later life.

    I think the black and white nature of this argument is quite ridiculous. By commiting to the idea of a gay gene without considering any alternative, you are being just as narrow minded and ignorant as the religious nuts who blindly believe it's a conscious choice and therefore an abomination. The people who are rallying for the gay gene theory, almost seem desperate to prove religious people wrong that these people 'can't help how they are' as if it's some sort of affliction. Nobody chooses what they are attracted to.

    The idea of a possible "gay gene" *is* the alternative. The idea that you can become homosexual due to environmental factors is the old school of thought.

    I believe that sexuality is fluid, but at the root of it all is our genetic makeup.
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    T I find them ugly so the thought of touching or going near someonelse's is like a nightmare to me.:)

    Well, they aren't cute or anything but they sure are fun to play with. ;)

    Just try it, and you might turn gay. :D
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    The idea of a possible "gay gene" *is* the alternative. The idea that you can become homosexual due to environmental factors is the old school of thought.

    I believe that sexuality is fluid, but at the root of it all is our genetic makeup.

    No actually that's not entirely true, because people equate the nurture idea and the notion of 'choosing' sexuality as being the same thing. They are entirely different, and this is the point I'm trying to make. I think both the traditional nurture and the current 'gay gene' ideas are both equally ignorant. People are trying to simplify a very complex idea, so that they can justify their political or moral view on the subject of homosexuality. Never mind the psychological or scientific evidence that might be involved. Believers in the gay gene will automatically side with the scientific argument, despite there not being any definitive proof; and conservative types who believe homosexuality is wrong, will ignore any possible scientifc evidence because it doesn't suit their moral indignation.

    What I'm proposing is something in the middle, and probably a more accurate answer to the debate. I think it's possible that somebody could be pre-disposed to same sex attraction, but I think it would be ridiculous to ignore the influence of environmental factors. Can you say exactly why your favourite colour is your favourite colour? Was I geneticaly predisposed to blue being my favourite colour? I think not, chances are that a link was made between something pleasing and the colour blue when I was a baby, and that connection has stuck ever since.
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    Right on facepollution. You are absolutely correct IMO.

    Just because someone doesn't agree that genetics is solely responsible for homosexuality doesn't mean that they believe its a choice.

    Homosexuality is a product of external factors, which may or may not have a genetic component as well.

    Think of it this way. If our culture was constructed in a way that it's taught since childhood that men should love men and women should love women, homosexuality rates would be through the roof. There are small cultures in remote parts of the world where homosexuality is the norm and heterosexual sex is only used to reproduce.

    Homosexuality is not a choice at all, but to say it's all genetics is just ignorant.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
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