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I fucking hate literary theory

Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
edited December 2007 in All Encompassing Trip
I need to pluck 1000 more words out of nowhere on the following essay topic:

'A text means what its author meant when s/he wrote it’; ‘It is the reader, not the author, who determines a text’s meaning’. Which of these contrary claims do you find more convincing, and why? You should refer to one or more literary texts.

I have pretty much exhausted what I have to say. Oh, and it has to be related somehow to Frankenstein.

Any ideas? I'm looking at you Fins.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • smarcheesmarchee Posts: 14,539
    pass...........next question :p
    1998 ~ Barrie
    2003 ~ Toronto
    2005 ~ London, Toronto
    2006 ~ Toronto
    2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
    2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
    2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
    2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014 - Detroit
    2019 - Chicago X 2
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Is the IKEA catalogue a literary text? if not i can't help you :(
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    http://www.hum.aau.dk/%7Ecamelia/Teaching/LiteraryTheory/reader-response-handout.html

    http://faculty.smu.edu/nschwart/seminar/Fallacy.htm
    http://www.michaelbryson.net/academic/wimsattbeardsley.html
    http://social.chass.ncsu.edu/wyrick/debclass/whatis.htm
    http://www.ualberta.ca/~dmiall/LiteraryReading/Readings/Fish_1980.htm


    Try those links for starters.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    smarchee wrote:
    pass...........next question :p
    pwetty pwease? :o
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    http://www.hum.aau.dk/%7Ecamelia/Teaching/LiteraryTheory/reader-response-handout.html

    http://faculty.smu.edu/nschwart/seminar/Fallacy.htm
    http://www.michaelbryson.net/academic/wimsattbeardsley.html
    http://social.chass.ncsu.edu/wyrick/debclass/whatis.htm
    http://www.ualberta.ca/~dmiall/LiteraryReading/Readings/Fish_1980.htm


    Try those links for starters.
    You are a scholar and a gentleman Richard :) I notice Fish on the bottom link. Discussing his ideas and the arguments against him has been the basis of my essay so far so at least I'm on the right track :)

    thanks a lot.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I need to pluck 1000 more words out of nowhere on the following essay topic:

    'A text means what its author meant when s/he wrote it’; ‘It is the reader, not the author, who determines a text’s meaning’. Which of these contrary claims do you find more convincing, and why? You should refer to one or more literary texts.

    I have pretty much exhausted what I have to say. Oh, and it has to be related somehow to Frankenstein.

    Any ideas? I'm looking at you Fins.

    This makes me miss college. :D
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    You are a scholar and a gentleman Richard :) I notice Fish on the bottom link. Discussing his ideas and the arguments against him has been the basis of my essay so far so at least I'm on the right track :)

    thanks a lot.


    No problems. I'm not a big Fish fan, because just as language is arguably unstable inherently, so too, therefore, is the concept of the "community" as a signifier.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    No problems. I'm not a big Fish fan,


    really? i loved that movie... when Man of the Hour comes on at the end i wept
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    dunkman wrote:
    really? i loved that movie... when Man of the Hour comes on at the end i wept

    Haha, I knew that was coming. ;)
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    No problems. I'm not a big Fish fan, because just as language is arguably unstable inherently, so too, therefore, is the concept of the "community" as a signifier.
    Yeah, I have come just short of openly insulting him in the essay. There was a quotation of Wolfgang Iser on one of those links that says everything worthwhile that Fish has to say in a far better way.

    I argued that Fish was hypocritical because he suggests, by asserting that reader's interpretation determines meaning, that the words on the page do not point to meaning specifically and yet he is happy to allow the same words to point to exact meaning when describing the differences in interpretations. I can't quite work out why he thinks that the differences in interpretations can be viewed in one way but a novel is subject to the reader's interpretation. Can it not be that the interpretations are identical and we just interpret them differently? :D

    In short, the bulk of my essay is "Fish is a wanker, here is why..."
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    Those sorts of essays tend to score higher. If you start by questioning some of the assumptions of the questions, then take Fish to task point by point, you should be fine. But the trick is, to make the essay seem as if you're working from text outwards towards the theory, even if the question is really about the theory and wanting you to back your argument up using evidence from the text. Always remember your primary text is the novel being discussed, even in the most involved of metacritical discussion. That's the way to get a mark of 85% and higher.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Those sorts of essays tend to score higher. If you start by questioning some of the assumptions of the questions, then take Fish to task point by point, you should be fine. But the trick is, to make the essay seem as if you're working from text outwards towards the theory, even if the question is really about the theory and wanting you to back your argument up using evidence from the text. Always remember your primary text is the novel being discussed, even in the most involved of metacritical discussion. That's the way to get a mark of 85% and higher.
    I see. Of course, I wish my primary text was something other than Frankenstein :D Never been a fan. This essay is becoming tiresome though :) much of the critical material I can find says all the same stuff and I have never been good at fleshing out essays without sounding like I am repeating myself.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    Hmm... I DID have something to say, but I reckon I'll leave you two to it :p
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    this is why i opted for law school instead of an english phd. i didnt want to have to argue these kinds points with other eggheads the rest of my life. i couldn't rationalize writing papers about books nobody reads that only other professors will read so that they can write a bout about my paper which nobody will ever read except other professors who will write papers about the paper about my paper that i will have to read to write a new paper about the other paper about the other paper that was about my paper... and then one day i would die.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    soulsinging wrote:
    this is why i opted for law school instead of an english phd. i didnt want to have to argue these kinds points with other eggheads the rest of my life. i couldn't rationalize writing papers about books nobody reads that only other professors will read so that they can write a bout about my paper which nobody will ever read except other professors who will write papers about the paper about my paper that i will have to read to write a new paper about the other paper about the other paper that was about my paper... and then one day i would die.

    That's why I'm giggin' again. ;)
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    Hmm... I DID have something to say, but I reckon I'll leave you two to it :p
    No go for it Helen :) I have stalled, I can use all the opinions I can get.
    soulsinging wrote:
    this is why i opted for law school instead of an english phd. i didnt want to have to argue these kinds points with other eggheads the rest of my life. i couldn't rationalize writing papers about books nobody reads that only other professors will read so that they can write a bout about my paper which nobody will ever read except other professors who will write papers about the paper about my paper that i will have to read to write a new paper about the other paper about the other paper that was about my paper... and then one day i would die.
    I know what you mean. I love literature and I love writing but sometimes the essays I have to write just seem destructive to the art. I never liked Frankenstein anyway but if I was writing this on something like Dostoevksy, I'd find it offensive :D There is criticism and then there is rape.

    Fins will disagree obv :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    that's why i didn't do English and turned to cultural studies...i write papers that no will will read about stuff we all watch/listen to...then one day I will die. viva la stuart hall!
  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    No go for it Helen :) I have stalled, I can use all the opinions I can get.
    no seriously, best not :D but why don't ya say what sort of flow you have so far... cos you said you already have quite a bit? Where are you at at the moment... and then maybe a few ideas will pop up. I'm no good to anyone this time of the day though... after 3pm my brain slows down LOTS
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    No go for it Helen :) I have stalled, I can use all the opinions I can get.

    I know what you mean. I love literature and I love writing but sometimes the essays I have to write just seem destructive to the art. I never liked Frankenstein anyway but if I was writing this on something like Dostoevksy, I'd find it offensive :D There is criticism and then there is rape.

    Fins will disagree obv :)

    i love dostoevsky, even though im never sure how to spell the name. but yes, they became tiresome. i had to bust out my old paper writing skills for a class im taking now. the class was a perspective elective on ideas of justice in law and literature. i got to write 10 pages on king lear as a demonstration of the inevitable decay of a libertarian system. it was kinda fun, when you only have to do it once in 3-4 years ;) plus, i wrote myself out of being a libertarian.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    no seriously, best not :D but why don't ya say what sort of flow you have so far... cos you said you already have quite a bit? Where are you at at the moment... and then maybe a few ideas will pop up. I'm no good to anyone this time of the day though... after 3pm my brain slows down LOTS
    I'm currently out of ideas. I have already presented the main arguments on both sides, I have expressed my opinion that neither argument is entirely correct and that the best analysis is that the author and the reader have an interpretive relationship. To suggest that the reader creates the meaning of a work is to destroy the art, to suggest that only the author does is to castrate it :p In terms of Frankenstein, I argued that the meaning of the text is too obviously linked to Shelley's choice of structure and plot. She is the Frankenstein to her Novel's 'Monster'. I an suggesting that the novel is an allegory for the art and pitfalls of creative writing itself.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    soulsinging wrote:
    i love dostoevsky, even though im never sure how to spell the name. but yes, they became tiresome. i had to bust out my old paper writing skills for a class im taking now. the class was a perspective elective on ideas of justice in law and literature. i got to write 10 pages on king lear as a demonstration of the inevitable decay of a libertarian system. it was kinda fun, when you only have to do it once in 3-4 years ;) plus, i wrote myself out of being a libertarian.
    I think the literal translation from the russian characters is Dostoevskii but I prefer Dostoevsky since all the best translations I have read use it. Dostoyevsky, Dostoievsky and Dostoevski are all also acceptable I believe.

    How are you finding Law?
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
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