Papillon!

Jeanie

g under p wrote:

I just hope some of the innocent people in Guantanamo aren't suffering like DH & SM did in that movie. I still love SM movies and another actor and Oscar Winner from the old days Lee Marvin.

Peace

Yes, I try very hard not to think about Gitmo too much. We're just glad David Hicks is home and hopefully won't be scarred for ever by the place. I'd love to empty it out and blow the whole thing up, but I guess that's the kinda comment that would get me sent there I suppose. :rolleyes: Actually there are prisons all around the world right now that I'd love to demolish. Disgusting, horrible places that no human should be allowed to be kept in and I don't care what they did.

I love all the old McQueen films and Lee Marvin too, but my favorite prison film will always be Cool Hand Luke. Paul Newman is an amazing human being and fabulous in that film.

g under p

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I try very hard not to think about Gitmo too much. We're just glad David Hicks is home and hopefully won't be scarred for ever by the place. I'd love to empty it out and blow the whole thing up, but I guess that's the kinda comment that would get me sent there I suppose. :rolleyes: Actually there are prisons all around the world right now that I'd love to demolish. Disgusting, horrible places that no human should be allowed to be kept in and I don't care what they did.

I love all the old McQueen films and Lee Marvin too, but my favorite prison film will always be Cool Hand Luke. Paul Newman is an amazing human being and fabulous in that film.

OMG now we're talking, that's in my ALL TIME top 5 movies. PN IS an amazing human. Here's my top favorite line from that movie COOL HAND LUKE.

ALSO....

Luke: I can eat fifty eggs.
Dragline: Nobody can eat fifty eggs.
Convict: You just said he could eat anything.
Dragline: Did you ever eat fifty eggs?
Luke: Nobody ever eat fifty eggs.
Convict: Hey, Babalugats. We got a bet here.
Dragline: My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs.
Convict: Yeah, but in how long?
Luke: An hour.
Convict: Well, I believe I'll take part of that wager.
Dragline: Why you got to go and say fifty eggs for? Why not thirty-five or thirty-nine?
Luke: I thought it was a nice round number.


The religious themes in the movie are many times missed by many.

Peace

Jeanie

g under p wrote:

OMG now we're talking, that's in my ALL TIME top 5 movies. PN IS an amazing human. Here's my top favorite line from that movie COOL HAND LUKE.

ALSO....

Luke: I can eat fifty eggs.
Dragline: Nobody can eat fifty eggs.
Convict: You just said he could eat anything.
Dragline: Did you ever eat fifty eggs?
Luke: Nobody ever eat fifty eggs.
Convict: Hey, Babalugats. We got a bet here.
Dragline: My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs.
Convict: Yeah, but in how long?
Luke: An hour.
Convict: Well, I believe I'll take part of that wager.
Dragline: Why you got to go and say fifty eggs for? Why not thirty-five or thirty-nine?
Luke: I thought it was a nice round number.


The religious themes in the movie are many times missed by many.

Peace

Not by me. Love that film!! And the egg scenes have stuck with me my whole life! Actually so much of that film has stuck with me my whole life, it's really a brilliant film with so much depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqwYrbwHeM

Failure to communicate!! Brilliant!!!

g under p

Jeanie wrote:

Not by me. Love that film!! And the egg scenes have stuck with me my whole life! Actually so much of that film has stuck with me my whole life, it's really a brilliant film with so much depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqwYrbwHeM

Failure to communicate!! Brilliant!!!

The beginning lines to the best GnR song *Civil War* imo.

Also I love it after he eats the 50 eggs someone taps his belly and it's as hard as a rock, great sound effect. Then everyone leaves him with the overhead shot of PN looking like Jesus on the cross. CLASSIC!

An Oscar went to George Kennedy in his supporting role. Good stuff.

Peace

Jeanie

g under p wrote:

The beginning lines to the best GnR song *Civil War* imo.

Also I love it after he eats the 50 eggs someone taps his belly and it's as hard as a rock, great sound effect. Then everyone leaves him with the overhead shot of PN looking like Jesus on the cross. CLASSIC!

An Oscar went to George Kennedy in his supporting role. Good stuff.

Peace

My all time favorite Gunners song too.

And that overhead shot is pure brillance. The whole premise of him being an unwilling jesus type character, it's brilliant. Where he tells them he's not their boy, to stop feeding off him and leave him alone, it's shades of Jesus Christ Superstar and "Heal yourselves!" Actually there's nothing about that film I don't like.

DriftingByTheStorm

Blanche wrote:

The only Papillon I know is the Steve McQueen movie.

fuck yeah.

Jeanie

Blanche wrote:

The only Papillon I know is the Steve McQueen movie.

Yup, that's it based on the book Papillon by Henri Charriere. A story of his life.

DriftingByTheStorm

Heineken Helen wrote:

apparently it's like a French classic or something. I'd definitely recommend it though, fantastic uplifting read!

The only French "literature" i read is Anais Nin.

Heineken Helen

elmer wrote:

yeah i read it way back, recieved the dvd last xmas as a gift (it's not black and white, from70's) and it brought back memories.
Some of his decision making was a little iffy, found it frustrating every time he was recaptured! It is supposedly a true story and it's not as if I'd of made a better job of escaping Devils Island and evading all mortal peril but still......

My favourite part was where he settles down with the natives, gets himself a girl, got it all going good and then???? he fucks it all up!!!! I'd of stayed put me, settled down there.................little was devoted to this in the fil-em (some tit and aboriginal desire and stuff)_...........maybe, probably, you haven't reached this stage yet, don't worry- it's not of striking significance to the plot or at least ain't nothing serious but maybe leads into something serious

I'm definitely getting the DVD when I'm done... should be finished it tonight. About 50 pages left I think. That was one of my favourite parts too... oh and their first taste of freedom in Trinidad I really felt what they might have been going through.

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Read it years back Helen, it's a brilliant book. I think I've read it a few times now and also the follow up Banco. It really is an inspirational book and an excellent read.

Thanks Jeanie... Byrnzie also recommended that one so I'll get it too

It's really got me in a fantastic mood these past few days. Suze, forget about King and put Marian aside for a few days and read it

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Not by me. Love that film!! And the egg scenes have stuck with me my whole life! Actually so much of that film has stuck with me my whole life, it's really a brilliant film with so much depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqwYrbwHeM

Failure to communicate!! Brilliant!!!

I've never seen cool hand luke but some of the lads at work mentioned it yesterday when they saw I was reading papillon... is it similar? Is there a book to it?

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

Thanks Jeanie... Byrnzie also recommended that one so I'll get it too : )

It's really got me in a fantastic mood these past few days. Suze, forget about King and put Marian aside for a few days and read it : )

Oh shit! Byrnzie!!! Thanks for reminding me, I'm behind in my email and facebook. What's new huh?

Yeah, I have to say Hels, they're both extraordinary books and ones that I have read several times. The kind of books that change your life, or shape it depending on when you read them.

I'm thrilled you're enjoyed it, it really is a great read!

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Oh shit! Byrnzie!!! Thanks for reminding me, I'm behind in my email and facebook. : o What's new huh? : D

Yeah, I have to say Hels, they're both extraordinary books and ones that I have read several times. The kind of books that change your life, or shape it depending on when you read them. : D

I'm thrilled you're enjoyed it, it really is a great read! : )

You're on facebook? :eek: gonna go through byrnzies friends and add you later

Oh absolutely... it's one of those books I wish I'd read in school perhaps... although when they get freedom towards the end in British Guiana (where I'm at now) and they're working to scrape a living I was a bit disappointed at this 'freedom' cos I was running the story parallel to being stuck in the system and then they get free only to go back into the 'system' :( but then they mention how this freedom was worth it... hmm... me thinking aloud again

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

I've never seen cool hand luke but some of the lads at work mentioned it yesterday when they saw I was reading papillon... is it similar? Is there a book to it?

Oh Helen! You MUST see Cool Hand Luke! You MUST!!!

And a very interesting question you pose so I went and had a look and apparently there is a novel of Cool Hand Luke by Donn Pearce. I've never read it. But the movie is a true classic.

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Oh Helen! You MUST see Cool Hand Luke! You MUST!!!

And a very interesting question you pose so I went and had a look and apparently there is a novel of Cool Hand Luke by Donn Pearce. I've never read it. But the movie is a true classic.

Ooooooooohhh thank you... I'm quite into reading at the moment so may read the book first and THEN get the film.

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

You're on facebook? :eek: gonna go through byrnzies friends and add you later : )

Oh good! Please do!

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh absolutely... it's one of those books I wish I'd read in school perhaps... although when they get freedom towards the end in British Guiana (where I'm at now) and they're working to scrape a living I was a bit disappointed at this 'freedom' cos I was running the story parallel to being stuck in the system and then they get free only to go back into the 'system' :( but then they mention how this freedom was worth it... hmm... me thinking aloud again

You know I really can't remember when I first read it, I think it was one of Dad's books and quite likely he had to read it for HSC English when he went back, so I would have been 10 maybe? I know The Great Gatsby was on the reading list and I tried to read that but it didn't really do it for me. I never forget the leper colony, that had a massive impact on me as a kid. That and the cockroaches. I think that's a great thing to take from the book that sense of freedom burning within a person.

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

Ooooooooohhh thank you... I'm quite into reading at the moment so may read the book first and THEN get the film.

Yeah, well up till a few minutes ago it never occured to me there was a book! So you know now of course I'll have to aquire it!

Seriously though, the film is such a great experience I'd just get it Helen. I watched it again just recently thanks to patrickredeyes who reminded me and spurred me on. It's a fantastic movie, a really fantastic movie.

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

Oh good! Please do!




You know I really can't remember when I first read it, I think it was one of Dad's books and quite likely he had to read it for HSC English when he went back, so I would have been 10 maybe? I know The Great Gatsby was on the reading list and I tried to read that but it didn't really do it for me. I never forget the leper colony, that had a massive impact on me as a kid. That and the cockroaches. I think that's a great thing to take from the book that sense of freedom burning within a person.

Oh absolutely... it's a rare thing to get from a book. The leper colony was fantastic too!

Ok ok, I'll definitely find cool hand luke... happy now?

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh absolutely... it's a rare thing to get from a book. The leper colony was fantastic too!

Ok ok, I'll definitely find cool hand luke... happy now?

Yep!!

prljmngrl

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I try very hard not to think about Gitmo too much. We're just glad David Hicks is home and hopefully won't be scarred for ever by the place. I'd love to empty it out and blow the whole thing up, but I guess that's the kinda comment that would get me sent there I suppose. :rolleyes: Actually there are prisons all around the world right now that I'd love to demolish. Disgusting, horrible places that no human should be allowed to be kept in and I don't care what they did.

I love all the old McQueen films and Lee Marvin too, but my favorite prison film will always be Cool Hand Luke. Paul Newman is an amazing human being and fabulous in that film.

simple solution...don't commit any crimes and you wont ever have to worry about going to a place like that

Jeanie

prljmngrl wrote:

simple solution...don't commit any crimes and you wont ever have to worry about going to a place like that

I've got an idea, how about you worry about you and I'll worry about me.

And if you want to get into a debate on the relative merits or ineffectualness of incarceration through the ages, how about you start a thread on it on the Moving Train? I'm more than happy to discuss it further with you there.

g under p

prljmngrl wrote:

simple solution...don't commit any crimes and you wont ever have to worry about going to a place like that

One problem with that, some of those people in Guantanamo were just pick out by rivals in Afghanistan or for no reason at all and were sent there. In fact you or I could be name an enemy combatant and end up there with the repeal of the Habeas Corpus. They're journalist, cameramen, farmers etc and not terrorist but once labeled have nowhere to turn.

So it's not so simple. Some there are completely innocent and have no recourse or representation to prove there innocence.

Peace

Heineken Helen

prljmngrl wrote:

simple solution...don't commit any crimes and you wont ever have to worry about going to a place like that

Papillon was innocent... it's very very easy to be put away for something you didn't do... VERY!

prljmngrl

Heineken Helen wrote:

Papillon was innocent... it's very very easy to be put away for something you didn't do... VERY!

Allegedly, so was OJ.

prljmngrl

g under p wrote:

One problem with that, some of those people in Guantanamo were just pick out by rivals in Afghanistan or for no reason at all and were sent there. In fact you or I could be name an enemy combatant and end up there with the repeal of the Habeas Corpus. They're journalist, cameramen, farmers etc and not terrorist but once labeled have nowhere to turn.

So it's not so simple. Some there are completely innocent and have no recourse or representation to prove there innocence.

Peace

the occurrance of this happening to truly innocent people is very low, you are sensationalizing a very minor issue

g under p

prljmngrl wrote:

the occurrance of this happening to truly innocent people is very low, you are sensationalizing a very minor issue

Very low, you're out of your fucking mind. I wonder how you would feel if this happened to be you or one of your family member? Would you like some more just check with the site Democracy Now?

Even if there's one there that's one too many with no recourse once your there for representation tpo PROVE your innocence. Many never get that chance because after being tortured they would rather end their lives.

Put your innocent self there and see how you would like it.

Prisoner Spent 4 Years at Gitmo Despite Exoneration
Newly-revealed documents show the U.S. held a German prisoner at Guantanamo Bay despite privately acknowledging his innocence just months after his capture. Murat Kurnaz was kidnapped and handed over to U.S. forces in Pakistan in December 2001. Four weeks later he became one of the first prisoners to arrive at Guantanamo—where he would spend the next four years. Declassified documents show U.S. and German intelligence officials concluded he had no links to terrorism as early as September 2002. A newly-formed military tribunal finally took up his case in 2004. But the panel ignored the intelligence assessments and twice ordered his ongoing imprisonment. During this time Kurnaz says he suffered severe torture. He says he was beaten, given electric shocks, submerged in water, starved, and chained to a ceiling for days. Kurnaz says he saw several people die and often thought he would die himself. He was finally released in August 2006—nearly five years after his capture.

Peace

g under p

Former Guantanamo Prisoner, Brother of Current Prisoner in Cuba to Call for Closure of Prison Camp

One member of the delegation is Asif Iqbal who was held at Guantanamo for two years. In late 2001 he was taken from Pakistan to Afghanistan, where he was held, beaten, and interrogated by US troops. During his two years at Guantanamo he claims he was abused by US interrogators and forced to make false confessions. He was released in 2004 and has a lawsuit pending against the United States. He joins us on the phone from Cuba.

Inside the Wire: A Military Intelligence Soldier’s Eyewitness Account of Life at Guantanamo

We speak with former army sergeant, Erik Saar who served as an Arabic translator at Guantanamo Bay for six months. Among the abuses he says he witnessed was sexual abuse, mock interrogations, the use of dogs and a female interrogator smearing what looked like menstrual blood on a Muslim prisoner. He also says children were imprisoned at Guantanamo and that the military ordered them not to speak to the Red Cross.

Pt. 2: Enemy Combatant: Moazzam Begg on His Imprisonment at Guantanamo, Bagram, and Kandahar

The British-born Moazzam Begg joins us from Birmingham, UK to discuss his time inside the most notorious overseas prisons run by the United States. He was released 19 months ago without ever facing charges. He has just written the first book about Guantanamo by a former detainee.

AMY GOODMAN: Moazzam Begg, I wanted to talk to you about the effect or how much communication you had with your family, with people on the outside. And before you answer that question, I wanted to turn to your father, Azmat Begg, who joined us in the studio in the midst of your imprisonment. You were at Guantanamo at the time. He had come to the United States to let people know what was happening to you, his son. This is Azmat Begg.

AZMAT BEGG: It’s about two years now. It’s over two years now. He was taken from his house in front of his daughter and his wife. And two American soldiers, assisted by two Pakistani soldiers, pulled him out, bundled him up and put him into the trunk of the car, and took away. And he rang me up from the trunk of the car, possibly he had a mobile, and he told me in the middle of the night here in England that, “Daddy, I have been arrested.” I said, “What for?” It was a very [inaudible] sort of noise; I couldn’t believe. He said, “I’ve been arrested, Daddy.” I said, “Why?” He said, “I don’t know. And they are taking me somewhere, which I do not know. Please take care of my wife and children who are” at so and so address in Islamabad.

They're many more however many of these detainees stories have never been able to be told. NEVER!

Peace

Heineken Helen

prljmngrl wrote:

the occurrance of this happening to truly innocent people is very low, you are sensationalizing a very minor issue

How do you know the figures? It's only the ones who are later proven to be innocent that we hear about... there are plenty who simply have to put up and shut up. And it's certainly not a minor issue to those it happens to or their loved ones... far from it. It can destroy your life.

g under p

prljmngrl wrote:

the occurrance of this happening to truly innocent people is very low, you are sensationalizing a very minor issue

Arrested in Pakistan in December 2001, Sami al-Haj spent nearly six-and-a-half years at Guantanamo without charge or trial. He had been on a more than a year-long hunger strike to protest his imprisonment. We hear al-Haj’s first public remarks from his hospital bed in Sudan and speak to his brother, Asim al-Haj.

I hope you've taken the time to read or watch or listen to some of the stories we now know about innocent people detained in Gitmo Bay.

Many Americans appear to be spoon fed with our very biased media and news outlet. Our administration has done a masterful job of keeping these stories and others away from the public. Here's another...After More than Six Years, Al Jazeera Cameraman Sami al-Haj Released from Guantanamo Bay and the drastic measures he had to take to bring some attention to his false imprisonment.

g under p

AMY GOODMAN: A military judge has postponed the first war crimes tribunal at Guantanamo to allow a Supreme Court ruling to be made on the right of prisoners to challenge their detention in civil courts. The trial against Osama bin Laden’s former driver, Salim Ahmed Hamdan, was scheduled to start on June 2nd. Navy Captain Keith Allred ruled on Friday the trial should be delayed seven weeks, until July 21st, in case the Supreme Court ruling affects his case.


The court is considering a challenge to a provision of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 that denies Guantanamo prisoners the right to file petition of habeas corpus. It marks the third time the Supreme Court has examined the rights of prisoners held at Guantanamo. A ruling is expected June 30th.


In a separate ruling, the judge ordered a psychiatric evaluation for Hamdan to determine if he is competent to stand trial. A psychiatrist hired by his lawyers found he suffers from depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, and can’t participate in his defense. The military says he has no signs of any problems.


The US holds about 270 prisoners at Guantanamo now and has said it plans to bring about eighty before the tribunals, the first to be held by the United States since World War II.


Clive Stafford Smith is a British attorney who represents more than fifty of the prisoners at Guantanamo, legal director of the UK charity Reprieve and author of Eight O’Clock Ferry to the Windward Side: Seeking Justice in Guantanamo Bay. He is testifying on Tuesday before the House Committee on Foreign Relations about Guantanamo Bay. He joins from Washington, D.C.

An interesting look at how detainees from Guantanamo and other ghost prisons are going to tribunals based on info cohorsed from torturous practices. Some of these detainee have turned out to be innocent. Here's the article where you can listen, watch or read @ Clive Stafford Smith: US Holding 27,000 in Secret Overseas Prisons; Transporting Prisoners to Iraqi Jails to Avoid Media & Legal Scrutiny.

Peace