so is this what girls really want?
deadnothingbetter
Posts: 2,202
What She Really Wants
Is giving up your seat a show of respect or an act of outdated chauvinism? A panel of actual women tell all!
ESQ: The scenario: We are walking into a building in front of you. Do we hold the door open?
Katherine: That depends. If you are a step or two ahead of me, I'd expect you to hold the door. If it's more than that, don't bother. If you're far ahead of me, it's like you're waiting and I feel like I have to hurry up.
We are seated on a packed train and you're standing next to us. Do we give up our seat?
Alyssa: I actually think the idea that men should get up for young, healthy women is ridiculous. I'm perfectly capable of standing. I'm not a delicate flower who needs to sit.
Laura: It would kind of freak me out a little bit, like I'm old and infirm and not a sassy young thing anymore.
We think you may be pregnant -- it's hard to tell with those loose dresses. What do we do?
Patricia: In that case, just offer the seat -- without asking when we're due. You don't have to say why you are getting up. Nothing looks worse than a man who makes a pregnant woman stand.
A woman is lugging a large suitcase through the airport. Do we offer to help?
Katherine: I think a good rule of thumb is, if it looks like we're struggling, offer to help -- we'll really appreciate it.
Alyssa: As much as I want to be pro-feminist and able-bodied, if I'm carrying something heavy, help a girl out.
Okay, so we lug the case up a staircase for you. We would love to keep helping, but now we've got our own flight to catch.
Patricia: Helping me up the stairs is plenty. Just exit by asking, "Are you okay with this now?"
Laura: I'd like you to help me take it through security, take my laptop out of the case, put it back in again, take my shoes off, and smuggle in my water. That is modern chivalry. I'd marry that man.
We pass a woman walking down the street, crying. Do we do anything?
Laura: You already feel bad enough if you're crying in the street. It's better if nobody else acknowledges it.
Katherine: If we happen to be standing next to, say, a broken-down car, ask if we need help or if we need to use your phone.
It's late at night and we see you stumbling alone out of a bar, extremely drunk.
Katherine: Call us a cab, or ask if we have any friends who are still inside the bar. Any more and you could seem a little creepy.
We are in a parking lot and see you fighting loudly with a man, probably your boyfriend. Do we intervene?
Patricia: Not unless it gets out of hand. If there's just an argument, respect people's privacy.
Laura: If I were fighting with my boyfriend, I'd be already pissed off. There's chivalry and then there's delusions of being a knight in shining armor. Get lost.
We don't do anything, but then it starts to get physical -- we see him grab you by the arm.
Katherine: If you know you don't stand a chance if you try to pull the guy off, then call the police. And let them know you're watching. Sometimes just the social pressure of knowing that somebody's looking at you or knowing that somebody's calling the police can help.
We are at a bar when we see you being aggressively hit on by David Spade. What now?
Laura: We are more than capable of dispensing with an undesirable man.
Katherine: I would appreciate it if you came over and struck up a conversation with me and gave me an excuse to end the conversation with the other guy, but I'd probably assume you're hitting on me, too.
*And by "lovely" we mean no patronizing offense.
http://www.esquire.com/features/what-she-wants-0208
not that i'm in limbo here.... this is kinda the stuff i figured a long time ago...
once i opened a door for a girl who was a few steps behind me. i stepped behind the door without noticing that she was standing right behind me. instead of doing something chivalrous and, well, nice, i ended up looking like a complete jackass by stepping on her foot. i new being the nice guy never paid off. now, several years later, some mutual friends of her and i, said that she was creeped out by me all the time. great aweful times.
Is giving up your seat a show of respect or an act of outdated chauvinism? A panel of actual women tell all!
ESQ: The scenario: We are walking into a building in front of you. Do we hold the door open?
Katherine: That depends. If you are a step or two ahead of me, I'd expect you to hold the door. If it's more than that, don't bother. If you're far ahead of me, it's like you're waiting and I feel like I have to hurry up.
We are seated on a packed train and you're standing next to us. Do we give up our seat?
Alyssa: I actually think the idea that men should get up for young, healthy women is ridiculous. I'm perfectly capable of standing. I'm not a delicate flower who needs to sit.
Laura: It would kind of freak me out a little bit, like I'm old and infirm and not a sassy young thing anymore.
We think you may be pregnant -- it's hard to tell with those loose dresses. What do we do?
Patricia: In that case, just offer the seat -- without asking when we're due. You don't have to say why you are getting up. Nothing looks worse than a man who makes a pregnant woman stand.
A woman is lugging a large suitcase through the airport. Do we offer to help?
Katherine: I think a good rule of thumb is, if it looks like we're struggling, offer to help -- we'll really appreciate it.
Alyssa: As much as I want to be pro-feminist and able-bodied, if I'm carrying something heavy, help a girl out.
Okay, so we lug the case up a staircase for you. We would love to keep helping, but now we've got our own flight to catch.
Patricia: Helping me up the stairs is plenty. Just exit by asking, "Are you okay with this now?"
Laura: I'd like you to help me take it through security, take my laptop out of the case, put it back in again, take my shoes off, and smuggle in my water. That is modern chivalry. I'd marry that man.
We pass a woman walking down the street, crying. Do we do anything?
Laura: You already feel bad enough if you're crying in the street. It's better if nobody else acknowledges it.
Katherine: If we happen to be standing next to, say, a broken-down car, ask if we need help or if we need to use your phone.
It's late at night and we see you stumbling alone out of a bar, extremely drunk.
Katherine: Call us a cab, or ask if we have any friends who are still inside the bar. Any more and you could seem a little creepy.
We are in a parking lot and see you fighting loudly with a man, probably your boyfriend. Do we intervene?
Patricia: Not unless it gets out of hand. If there's just an argument, respect people's privacy.
Laura: If I were fighting with my boyfriend, I'd be already pissed off. There's chivalry and then there's delusions of being a knight in shining armor. Get lost.
We don't do anything, but then it starts to get physical -- we see him grab you by the arm.
Katherine: If you know you don't stand a chance if you try to pull the guy off, then call the police. And let them know you're watching. Sometimes just the social pressure of knowing that somebody's looking at you or knowing that somebody's calling the police can help.
We are at a bar when we see you being aggressively hit on by David Spade. What now?
Laura: We are more than capable of dispensing with an undesirable man.
Katherine: I would appreciate it if you came over and struck up a conversation with me and gave me an excuse to end the conversation with the other guy, but I'd probably assume you're hitting on me, too.
*And by "lovely" we mean no patronizing offense.
http://www.esquire.com/features/what-she-wants-0208
not that i'm in limbo here.... this is kinda the stuff i figured a long time ago...
once i opened a door for a girl who was a few steps behind me. i stepped behind the door without noticing that she was standing right behind me. instead of doing something chivalrous and, well, nice, i ended up looking like a complete jackass by stepping on her foot. i new being the nice guy never paid off. now, several years later, some mutual friends of her and i, said that she was creeped out by me all the time. great aweful times.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
-mason jennings
It's always nice to offer. "Would you like to sit down?" "Is everything okay?" "Do you need any help?" "Can I call you a cab?" I generally think being concerned for the people around you is a kind gesture in this day and age, regardless of gender, and I tend to be impressed by it.
But please don't be obnoxious about it. If I decline, don't insist. And don't offer to carry my groceries just to make yourself look good (to me or to the other men in the store). If I say I can take care of myself, respect that.
Also, please don't be easily offended. Women can't be too careful these days, so we have to be cautious around strange men who offer to do us favors that could possibly put us in compromised positions, like walking us to our cars when we're drunk, etc. That doesn't mean we don't appreciate the offer.
I truly believe that respect and courtesy go a long way. But that's why I try to be respectful and courteous of the people around me as well. I'll offer to help people, especially elderly people, carry things, etc. And I always hold the door open for the person behind me.
That's why I do get offended when I hold the door open for my date or whoever and he refuses to walk through it, insisting that he'll hold the door open for me instead. That's just obnoxious, and we could stand in the doorway all day playing that game. There's no reason to not allow me to be courteous to you as well. You can hold the door next time and then we'll both be equals.
Not to stereotype, but are you originally from Austin? If so, do you not find the men in the south to be more courteous, in general? I'm origninally from the south, and that's one of the things I love about going back.
now i've learned seeing it the way you're explaining it. i don't necessarily do any favors to girls like i used to... but if i do open doors for girls i'll do it simply out of courtesy. instead of having that thing in mind, "oh, she's hot. i'll try do something nice for her. maybe she'll like me for it." i think in general most guys do that. it totally puts them in jeopardy with girls.
instead, now, if a girl opens a door for me... i'll be like, "cool, thanks." then walk on by... i've now noticed girls respond more to me ever since i left that whole "extreme-chauvinism" behind.
i'm not originally from austin... although i've lived here about 10 years now. but i guess i can see what you're saying... although there are a large group of "arrogant pricks".
Also, you never know how a particular woman is going to react. If I am in a busy tube station and rushing to get on a train and I let the woman next to me go first so as not to shove her out the way, she could take that as a nice thing, she could be offended because I am treating her differently to a guy or I could barge past her and risk offending her that way. I am not a sexist person but my god, sometimes it's hard to win
Only yesterday my best friend came to stay over. I have a very small room in university accomodation, one bed. I offered her the bed and said I'd take the sleeping bag. Way I saw it was, my bed sheets have been to the laundry more recently than the sleeping bag, I'd be a pretty shit host to make her sleep in a sweaty old bag on the floor. She is a feminist and got very indignant and said "no, it's your room, your bed, why shouldn't you have it? I'm perfectly fine on the floor thank you very much", because she knew damn well I'd have been fine letting one of my male friends have the floor. That's fine and I get her point but she could just as easily have been like "what the fuck? I get some crappy sleeping bag on the floor?!"
It's a tricky situation people. I think the feminists need to get all girls to commit to this total equality so there is no more confusion and accidental insults.
I agree with that. Politeness is good but women are no different from men. You really don't need to dwell on this too much and everyone has a different opinion.
yeah, that population of austin is growing too large. but, i dont think they have strong roots in the city.....or strong roots to much of anything. my hometown is an hour north and i spend a lot of time there. my brother lives off 183. i'm in denton now, though. but i spend quite a bit of time down there. anyways, i understand an independent woman's point of view regarding this...if the chivalrous action is well intended with a good heart, then a man knows when to give up and not step on her toes. otherwise, he's probably doing it just to look good or insecure about feeling like he's not the one wearing the pants. i'll always open the door til they tell me to stop though.
-mason jennings
i personally don't do it myself anymore... i basically treat all girls as i would my little sister. it's worked like a charm all the time. girls seem to love me for it.
Guys should hold doors for women, and let them through the doors first- like, if an elevator arrives and there are 5 guys and 1 woman waiting for it, she gets on first. (Although I think the one place this doesn't really apply is if you both are running for the same subway train.)
Not doing so makes you look like you were brought up without polite manners. Sorry- but it does.
just a question.... so i can see what perspective this is coming from. are you male or female?
never read magazine articles on what the opposite sex "wants."
how about not treating a woman any differently than you would treat a man? Do you slam doors in men's faces? no, you hold it open. If you saw a man really struggling with something, you would help out. I don't really get what the difference is. Polite, helpful people help strangers out regardless of what sex they are.
I will never understand those feminists (not you obviously
Agreed, agreed. :-)
But now here's what the hard-core feminist in me would say: Please try to remember that, after being subjected to patriarchal dominance and attacks for 100s of years (and still too often today - although obviously not by you), it can be hard for women to let down their defenses about it, and to judge when it's appropriate to be defensive and when it's not.
It reminds me of a bumper-sticker: "I'll be a post-feminist in the post-patriarchy." :-)
[Hey - can anyone PM me to let me know how to put the smiley icons in the text?]
I think there's too much bullshit. The fact that some women get offended by a man holding a door open or offering them their seat almost makes my blood boil. Feminism was a great and necessary concept but it's still nice to be respected and I never feel like the weak and delicate flower because of it... it makes me feel kinda special
Verona??? it's all surmountable
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What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If a woman is struggling, trying to get a pram through a door, then yes but women are usually worse for letting doors slam on others.