"Stealing" Music

Cosmo

sponger wrote:

I don't download music, but that's because I think I'm going to end up with a virus if I do.

But, one thing I noticed is that Radiohead's In Rainbows albums still sold phenomenally in stores even though it had been made free via the band's website.

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That's the difference... radiohead was in control... not some random dude on a college campus. The music was offered to the public... and told, 'Pay... what you think it is worth'. If you thought the music was worthless.. you paid zero... 10 bucks, you paid 10 bucks.
Personally... I opted for the limited edition vinyl that came with the CD with extra songs and special packaging. It set me back 80 bucks.. but, the way I see it... if part of that 80 bucks finances their next record.. then, it was well worth it.
They are artists... If I want their art... I think I should, at least, pay them for it.

sponger

I do remember watching a documentary about how CD's are in fact way overpriced, and that the music industry intentionally overcharges like the oil companies do with gasoline.

I believe that record labels are in an industry that allows them to engage in price-fixing. That is, they conspire to keep their products at a certain price.

For whatever reason, DVD's are cheaper than ever. I never pay more than $10 for a DVD. Most of them are $6.99. Why can't record labels do the same with CD's?

keeponrockin

Cosmo wrote:

...
That's the difference... radiohead was in control... not some random dude on a college campus. The music was offered to the public... and told, 'Pay... what you think it is worth'. If you thought the music was worthless.. you paid zero... 10 bucks, you paid 10 bucks.
Personally... I opted for the limited edition vinyl that came with the CD with extra songs and special packaging. It set me back 80 bucks.. but, the way I see it... if part of that 80 bucks finances their next record.. then, it was well worth it.
They are artists... If I want their art... I think I should, at least, pay them for it.

I agree. I think that if you're a true music lover, you PAY for the art, and not steal it, end of discussion.

The excuse 'lots of people do it' is bullshit. I'm sorry, I'm 17, and I pay for ALL my music (other than live bootlegs), I feel:
A) You should support the artist
and
I like having something physical.

I would definitley consider myself a music lover, ao I pay for it. If I see a band I like at a concert, I go buy the CD. It's not like I have an unlimited budget here, but I have just never wanted to get something thats not supporting the artist, even in the least bit.

Cosmo

radiohead33 wrote:

care to respond to my other points?

As I stated 20 bucks a pop is alot. and bands get little if any of that cash. Record labels wouldnt care about downloading if artists took home 90 percent of that. artists take home little of it.

So how is downloading a bruce album stealing money from bruce?

Its stealing money from greedy multibillion dollar conglomerates who could give a crap about us.
Stealing is justified in some circumstances. And this is one of them.

If bands were going to take home a huge slice of that 20 bucks it would be different. as it stands they wouldnt take home much of it, if you bought a cd.

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You are rationalizing your actions. You even refer to it as 'Stealing'... to which I responded... Stealing is bad. Leastwise, in my book stealing is bad.
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And I don't know where you live... but, I can pick up a CD at Target for about 12 bucks.
And it's not just the Record Company CEO. That's like saying Boeing is just it's CEO. Not true. Both are comprised of hundreds or thousands of regular working Joes. People at post production, packaging, distribution, marketing, advertisement, etc... To believe it is just talking it from spoiled millionaire Rock Stars and CEO Billionaires is so simplistic and way off the plane of reality.
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Regarding Bruce Springsteen. You steal his music... you steal from everyone that has anything to do with the making of that record. If you feel that is okay... that's on you. You can justify you stealing (from a greedy CEO)... which means you can justify the guy that breaks into your car and steals your stereo. It's not really stealig to him... you are rich because you have a car and he doesn't. He can sleep well at night by justifying that you will just have your insurance company pay for an upgrade to your system.
That's okay... ain't it?
To me... it isn't. To me... stealing is stealing, not matter what you tell yourself.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

I used to steal lots of music and have found new bands that way. now that i'm making a bit of cash, i'm buying up real copies of my pirated stuff. i dont really feel good about pirating it now.

working in the game industry, i can say that pirating seems to be destroying the PC market. game developers are fleeing the PC in droves, or at most releasing the game months after it comes out on consoles (which also gets pirated). the ratio is upwards of 10:1 thieves to buyers in most cases.

Cosmo

sponger wrote:

I do remember watching a documentary about how CD's are in fact way overpriced, and that the music industry intentionally overcharges like the oil companies do with gasoline.

I believe that record labels are in an industry that allows them to engage in price-fixing. That is, they conspire to keep their products at a certain price.

For whatever reason, DVD's are cheaper than ever. I never pay more than $10 for a DVD. Most of them are $6.99. Why can't record labels do the same with CD's?

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That exactly what i do. Like, I will buy the Pearl Jam CD from the Ten/VHC 'Goods' webpage, because I like Pearl Jam. I do the same for the bands I really like.
I also buy CDs from Target for about 12 bucks when they first come out.
If I hear something I like on the radio (which is rare)... I will look for it in the Used CD bins at Amoeba or Fingerprints (Long Beach). I know it doesn't count as a full cost CD that goes to record labels... but, i like the people who work at Amoeba and Fingerprints and i hope to keep them in business.
For those tiny, new artists that are just trying to make a living making music, rather than sitting in a fucking cubicle, like me... I will pay the 15 bucks they charge. I love buying their CDs at their shows and watching my 15 bucks go right into their pockets.
They are making my life better by filling it with music and songs that seem to say what i am feeling.. but, I lack the talent to string those words together so beautifully. To me... that's worth it.

NeilJam

sponger wrote:

For whatever reason, DVD's are cheaper than ever. I never pay more than $10 for a DVD. Most of them are $6.99. Why can't record labels do the same with CD's?

This is a good point. Many more people are involved in making a movie than making an album. Actors often get royalties for each sale or rental of a movie they are in. My High School would even get royalty checks from profits for the movie Reckless because of scenes that were filmed in the building. These kind of deals must still be going on.

keeponrockin

Cosmo wrote:

..
You are rationalizing your actions. You even refer to it as 'Stealing'... to which I responded... Stealing is bad. Leastwise, in my book stealing is bad.
...
And I don't know where you live... but, I can pick up a CD at Target for about 12 bucks.
And it's not just the Record Company CEO. That's like saying Boeing is just it's CEO. Not true. Both are comprised of hundreds or thousands of regular working Joes. People at post production, packaging, distribution, marketing, advertisement, etc... To believe it is just talking it from spoiled millionaire Rock Stars and CEO Billionaires is so simplistic and way off the plane of reality.
...
Regarding Bruce Springsteen. You steal his music... you steal from everyone that has anything to do with the making of that record. If you feel that is okay... that's on you. You can justify you stealing (from a greedy CEO)... which means you can justify the guy that breaks into your car and steals your stereo. It's not really stealig to him... you are rich because you have a car and he doesn't. He can sleep well at night by justifying that you will just have your insurance company pay for an upgrade to your system.
That's okay... ain't it?
To me... it isn't. To me... stealing is stealing, not matter what you tell yourself.

Once again, Cosmo hits the nail on the head.

Cosmo

MrSmith wrote:

I used to steal lots of music and have found new bands that way. now that i'm making a bit of cash, i'm buying up real copies of my pirated stuff. i dont really feel good about pirating it now.

working in the game industry, i can say that pirating seems to be destroying the PC market. game developers are fleeing the PC in droves, or at most releasing the game months after it comes out on consoles (which also gets pirated). the ratio is upwards of 10:1 thieves to buyers in most cases.

...
And people will justify stealing your games by saying they aren't stealing it... they are 'copying' it. The money just goes to those greedy CEOs at EA... right? You and your co-workers are not even considered to be part of the equation.
If they want to play the game.. they need to just fucking buy it. The money will go towards the next generation of the game, right? This rationalization of it's okay because corporations are greedy is just a means to let them believe it is okay. It is not okay.

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

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stealing is stealing, not matter what you tell yourself.

In Canada it's not stealing. It's legal.

Cosmo

angelica wrote:

In Canada it's not stealing. It's legal.

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If it's not illegal.. then, it's legal. That's the difference.
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By the way... how are you?

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

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If it's not illegal.. then, it's legal. That's the difference.

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By the way... how are you?

I am great! and you?

Cosmo

angelica wrote:

I am great! and you?

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Doing good. Going to see Stone tomorrow night. Never seen him actually front a band... only in Pearl Jam and Brad. Should be interesting... I'm looking forward to it.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

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If it's not illegal.. then, it's legal. That's the difference.
...

doesnt necessarily make it right though.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

doesnt necessarily make it right though.

Exactly. At one time, it was legal in Germany to gas Jews.

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

doesnt necessarily make it right though.

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Yes... you are right. In China, for example, it's a business. You invest in the CD/DVD burners and the blank CDs... the Printers and the jewel cases... buy one copy... and make thousands of copies for sale. It's a business.
To the Chinese... it is legal. To the ones who own the copyrights in their home countries, it is not.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yes... you are right. In China, for example, it's a business. You invest in the CD/DVD burners and the blank CDs... the Printers and the jewel cases... buy one copy... and make thousands of copies for sale. It's a business.
To the Chinese... it is legal. To the ones who own the copyrights in their home countries, it is not.

then the record companies should be jumping right on that. surely tis illegal to breach copyright. if not, it should be.

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

then the record companies should be jumping right on that. surely tis illegal to breach copyright. if not, it should be.

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They are... along with the movie studios, software companies (including MicroSoft) and gaming companies. But, it is difficult... especially when the legit copies for the Asian Markets are also being made there. Even Nike is having problems because they contract out to thousands of smaller vendor shops. It's a free for all over there.

Rachel Ann Goudreau

Collin wrote:

I rarely ever download music, though, I have quite a nice collection of music I didn't pay for (got it from friends). I still buy cd's regularly.

But I think it's something you can't stop. It's the nature of the beast, so to speak.

But if artists can't make money buy selling discs, they might tour more, play live more... which is kind of nice.

Anyway, I don't really care.

I agree that there are so many search engines out there that "give away" free music. They usually wind you up into a promotion trial, "the free", after that you have to pay. Careful now, if you don't disconnect at the end of the trial period, you could end up paying.

goto_l

radiohead33 wrote:

care to respond to my other points?

As I stated 20 bucks a pop is alot. and bands get little if any of that cash. Record labels wouldnt care about downloading if artists took home 90 percent of that. artists take home little of it.

So how is downloading a bruce album stealing money from bruce?

Its stealing money from greedy multibillion dollar conglomerates who could give a crap about us.
Stealing is justified in some circumstances. And this is one of them.

If bands were going to take home a huge slice of that 20 bucks it would be different. as it stands they wouldnt take home much of it, if you bought a cd.

What about libraries or vcr's? You can go to a place and borrow a book and read it without paying money to the author. Isnt that stealing? And why arent you pissed off about that? How about taping tv shows on DVR or whatnot. Isnt that taking money away from potential profits that tv companies could make when future dvd's come out? More significantly most libraries have copy machines. it would take an entire day to do it, but you feasibly could copy literally any book you wanted to.

I dislike many things about modern society. Very few things piss me off more than hyposcrisy.

Either you are for or against something. Either you are against taping the simpsons and Lost on tv because that is stealing (back when VCR's came out, that was the argument, that it was stealing. Look it up. Sound familiar?), or you are for stealing and copying of everything.

There is no middle ground.

For me, i am for copying of all media. The movie studios and tv studios are the same as the record companies. They screw the actor, artist, musician and take home the profit, while throwing pennies at the writers, directors, actors, producers, musicians etc...

The self declared nobility of "Screwing the Maaaaaan" amazes me. You are not out to change the world with your ideas of justified theft. Simply you are the greedy one yourself, in that you think your money is so precious that you are beyond civility. What's next are you gonna spout the familiar "rules are made to be broken" or "they're holding us down"? Simply put you're a selfish, greedy thief with no concern but for yourself. FTW BRO!!!!