Libertarians
not for me?
Posts: 501
I'm sick of the two party system. I'm sick of just McCain and Obama. I don't really like either of them at all. Obama being inexperienced and not discussing the issues, and McCain looking more and more like Bush II. I've been looking into the Libertarian party recently and I am liking what I'm seeing. Less government that lets people make choices for themselves. Going back to the constitution. I get a conservative view it at home, now I'm looking for the a more liberal view of it. This will be my first time voting and I really want to make a well informed choice. Please help me out. Tell me your opinions of the party.
Nathan
Nathan
Nathan
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Do whatever you want, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of another person or group of people. These rights being the ones laid out by our Bill Of Rights.
-Reagan
It's not longer a world of independent and separate countries where a nation of loosely tied states can thrive or even survive. It's a connected and interdependent world and this will only grow stronger as we go forward. It takes a strong, federal government to lead the US in the global world.
Even at home, the government needs to be there for the people as Obama said tonight. It shouldn't be against the people as it has been so often in the past, but the federal government plays crucial roles.
Crucial roles in maintaining standards of education (which it's done poorly at in recent times).
In helping unfortunate citizens get back on their feet, to protect individual rights especially those of minority groups who states may choose to oppress.
To protect national security.
To fund and encourage research in every area--healthy, alternative fuel, biology, social sciences, crime prevention, space exploration etc. Stuff that's not necessarily related to profit and thus won't get funded by private companies in a capitalist society.
Etc. Etc.
So in short the libertarian party is damn far from my personal views on what the government should do. Even further away than the republican party.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
I'd agree, but libertarian goes to far to that extreme IMO.
Obama's plans match mine the closest of any candidate in the elections I've been old enough to vote in (1996 was the first). I notice you say he talks a lot about change but doesn't outline details of his plans. This is true of his speeches, but his plans are outlined in great detail on his website:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
You can look issue by issue there as well as download a pdf file of his blue print for America and get a lot of details on his plan and see whether or not you agree with him.
I won't try to sway you, but I encourage you to read up on that, and check McCain's site as well and see where they really stand rather than relying on speeches which are aimed at the regular voters who pay little attention to details and just vote on rhetoric and hot button issues.
Then do the same for the libertarian party and see where you stand. Don't listen to me or others on here who have already formed our opinions. Do independent research and come to your own beliefs. Forming political beliefs should be a deeply personal and introspective process. Not one based on the opinions of biased others who just want to convert you to their side.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Unfortnately, this time around Bob Barr is running as the Libertarian Party candidate. Yes, the Bob Barr who as a recent Republican was OK with the Patriot Act, the war on drugs, etc... He has denounced those things now, but I'm afraid he's just being an opportunist. So this time around None of the Above gets my vote for Pres. Usually that vote goes to the Libertarian candidate.
And not for me?, if you think you lean libertarian, there is no way you could vote for either of the major party candidates. They both promote the use of force, and neither speaks of liberty. They only talk about how to grow the government to do more.
I wasn't going to vote, until I started getting interested in the LP(I was thinking of voting American Independent also). Barr has admitted his mistakes though, which I respect. He doesn't just pretend like he never did it.
True, and I hope he is sincere. At any rate, even if I abstain from voting for President this time around (or write myself in), I will still vote in local and state races, and attempt to elect Libertarians where I can.
I feel the exact same way.
Except for those Code Pink morons. Batons are too good for them.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I identify most with the lp and generally vote that way when possible.
I like thier stances on liberty and freedom and personal decision making as well as small protectorate national government. Though I'm ok with fairly powerful local and state government provided it's efficient and well run. I'm essentially a big fan of actual free markets (though they rarely exist anymore) and efficiency and essentially decriminalizing any morality based law.
Having a libertarian viewpoint typically means you do not subscribe to the notion that a nations wealth is of one collective to be distributed by government. "From Each according to their means to each according to thier needs." If you will. I tend to belive this works fine in very small collective communities and absolutely dreadful in large economies (far too small a group in charge of far too much responsibility and this is also typically the case with too much corporte conglomeration without good oversite which also leads to corruption) If you do think of wealth belonging to an entire collective that is distributed by government equally to everyone you're probably not going to like the LP.
There is no perfect governmental system for everyone. The grass is always greener elsewhere and honestly facts and figures are skewed by everyone to meet thier particular ideal.
I just can't get over the fact that 'free' (of course nothing has ever been completely free) market capitalism has never worked anywhere that doesn't have the biggest guns. In fact, the place that took up most of Ron Paul's (or the Libertarian) stance, Argentina, had a dollar that was worth $1-1 with America for a time then it absolutely collapsed (sound familiar) to being worthless. Chile, likewise, look at New Zealand in the 80's, Russia in the 90s, Japan in the 90s, and so on have all taken massive hits. The difference is we can artificially prop the market up with wars.
Anyway if you look around at the most successful governments, and countries they take on some market based ideas, but are also strong socialist national governments (Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, and so on). In the end I think what is always market capitalism's downfall is what Karl Marx pointed out in the mid-1800s, whereby any system which operates solely on the exploitation of labor (that's how profit is made) will result in alienation and ultimately revolt. Of course this has happened everywhere but in the totalitarian government of the United States.
I worry about the elimination of freedoms choices and personal economic freedom under a more socialist system.
I like an environment where small buisnesses can thrive and serve the public needs and an enviroment that encourages invention and meeting the needs of a market. I'm not sure that is always the case when people are under a prohibitive tax structure. I think they take less chances.
One other cool thing about Europe is the culture. The US is a blend of so many cultures though box stores and franchises leave many basic cities looking very similar... it does make goods cheaper by using economies of scale, but the uniqueness and character gets lost in translation.