Will The US Ever Leave Iraq: THE BASES ARE LOADED

g under p

Will the U.S. ever leave Iraq? Official policy promises an eventual departure, while warning of the dire consequences of a "premature" withdrawal. But while Washington equivocates, facts on the ground tell another story. Independent journalist Dahr Jamail, and author Chalmers Johnson, are discovering that military bases in Iraq are being consolidated from over a hundred to a handful of "megabases" with lavish amenities. Much of what is taking place is obscured by denials and quibbles over the definition of "permanent." The Bases Are Loaded covers a wide range of topics. Gary Hart, James Goldsborough, Nadia Keilani, Raed Jarrar, Bruce Finley Kam Zarrabi and Mark Rudd all add their observations about the extent and purpose of the bases in Iraq.

Ever wonder where our appropriations of the billions for the war in Iraq is REALLY going to?

Please watch this video and you'll get a very good idea. Listen to Chalmers Johnson as he speaks on our expansion of US military bases, the author of Blowback and The Sorrow of EMPIRE: Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic.

After reading those books I got such a better understanding of our militaristic mentality.

my2hands

g under p wrote:

After reading those books I got such a better understanding of our militaristic mentality.

just read the PNAC essay... they cleary state their goal is domination of the planet through the military and war. they (PNAC members and founders) all now hold the highest offices of this country since 2001


every single american should read the PNAC esssay, to get a clearer idea of what we are dealing with. once they read it i bet they stop calling Bush an "idiot" or "moron"... the plan is going just as designed. the funny thing is that it is out there in the open for all to read. global domination through the military sounds exactly like what hitler and other maniacs through history have dreamed of and strived for, well, now we have our own. they even put the plan in fucking writing for all to see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC


and to this day, i have not seen 60 seconds of mainstream media dedicated to this topic

Cosmo

We cannot leave Iraq. All this "Stand up the Iraqi forces so we can stand down" is a bunch of bullshit. Why? Because of this:
Who runs the Command and Control over there?
Who provides air support?
Who provides intelligence?
Who handles the logistics and supplies?
Who runs the combat medical system?
Answer: The U.S. Military.
...
Who will run these vital operations if we leave?
Answer: Not any Iraqis.
...
And what happens when a Democracy that we set up... tells us we have to leave? Do we stay against their will? Is that part of 'Spreading Demoocracy'?

g under p

my2hands wrote:

just read the PNAC essay... they cleary state their goal is domination of the planet through the military and war. they (PNAC members and founders) all now hold the highest offices of this country since 2001


every single american should read the PNAC esssay, to get a clearer idea of what we are dealing with. once they read it i bet they stop calling Bush an "idiot" or "moron"... the plan is going just as designed. the funny thing is that it is out there in the open for all to read. global domination through the military sounds exactly like what hitler and other maniacs through history have dreamed of and strived for, well, now we have our own. they even put the plan in fucking writing for all to see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC


and to this day, i have not seen 60 seconds of mainstream media dedicated to this topic

The plan was running smoothly until those two icebergs collided. Millions and millions of ordinary people are making it very difficult for Bush's international allies to keep to the script. PNAC may have designs for the control of the "International Commons" of the Internet, but for now it is the staging ground for a movement that would see empire take a back seat to a wise peace, human rights, equal protection under the law, and the preponderance of a justice that will, if properly applied, do away forever with the anger and hatred that gives birth to terrorism in the first place. Tommaso Palladini of Milan perhaps said it best as he marched with his countrymen in Rome. "You fight terrorism," he said, "by creating more justice in the world."

The People versus the Powerful is the oldest story in human history. At no point in history have the Powerful wielded so much control. At no point in history has the active and informed involvement of the People, all of them, been more absolutely required. The tide can be stopped, and the men who desire empire by the sword can be thwarted. It has already begun, but it must not cease. These are men of will, and they do not intend to fail.

I'm getting a even better idea with this article and others @ PNAC.

Peace

RolandTD20Kdrummer

my2hands wrote:

just read the PNAC essay... they cleary state their goal is domination of the planet through the military and war. they (PNAC members and founders) all now hold the highest offices of this country since 2001


every single american should read the PNAC esssay, to get a clearer idea of what we are dealing with. once they read it i bet they stop calling Bush an "idiot" or "moron"... the plan is going just as designed. the funny thing is that it is out there in the open for all to read. global domination through the military sounds exactly like what hitler and other maniacs through history have dreamed of and strived for, well, now we have our own. they even put the plan in fucking writing for all to see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC


and to this day, i have not seen 60 seconds of mainstream media dedicated to this topic

I've been trying to explain PNAC (directly and indirectly) here for a couple months now...

Some people think they know what's going on....but really don't know anything.

They sure like to pretend to though.

I requires reading and thinking, which is most likely the problem with a lot of people.

spiral out

my2hands wrote:

and to this day, i have not seen 60 seconds of mainstream media dedicated to this topic

And you proabably never will. It's not within thier interest to report on things like this.

Open

g under p wrote:

Ever wonder where our appropriations of the billions for the war in Iraq is REALLY going to?

Please watch this video and you'll get a very good idea. Listen to Chalmers Johnson as he speaks on our expansion of US military bases, the author of Blowback and The Sorrow of EMPIRE: Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic.

After reading those books I got such a better understanding of our militaristic mentality.

Look at the embassy we're building there....we will never "leave" iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/

RolandTD20Kdrummer

To sum it up perfectly: "nations may not like their rulers, but they like them a whole lot more than foreign invaders"

Talked about getting smacked square in the face with a frying pan for a slice of blatant screaming reality.

America's foreign policy experts and political analysts....wow are they ever *cough*....uh....smart.

Fox News! Yaaaaay! stumping America one stooge at a time...

DriftingByTheStorm

Open wrote:

Look at the embassy we're building there....we will never "leave" iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/

What's so wrong about constructing 22 buildings to house 5,500 people on 104 acres in the center of another country's capital at a cost of over 1 billion dollars and calling it "an embassy"?

that sounds normal to me.
haventy you seen all the "embassies" that other countries have built in DC that sprawl over 100 acres?

My favorite line from that article is the State Department spokesperson saying, “It’s somewhat self-evident that there’s going to be a fairly sizable commitment to Iraq by the U.S. government in all forms for several years" ...

oh yeah "somewhat evident" and "several years" ...

SEVERAL YEARS?
YOU THINK?

$1,000,000,000 PLUS price tag on 104 acres, 22 buildings.
Yeah ... i guess we may be planning to have a bit of an extended picnic there ... i mean ... nothing "long term" but sure ... several years ...

we'll just open the air-plug and deflate the thing, roll it on to a jumbo jet and fly it home when we are done with our little "camp out" in "several years"

... sigh.
:(

Truthmonger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I've been trying to explain PNAC (directly and indirectly) here for a couple months now...

Some people think they know what's going on....but really don't know anything.

They sure like to pretend to though.

I requires reading and thinking, which is most likely the problem with a lot of people.

I started looking into this a couple years ago, when I was doing a great deal of reading about Iraq. Bill Kristol is a slimy, manipulative fuck who creeps me out.

PaperPlates

And here I thought this was gonna be a thread about Iraq's new baseball team. :(

RolandTD20Kdrummer

PaperPlates wrote:

And here I thought this was gonna be a thread about Iraq's new baseball team. :(

They haven't built the American sports stadium yet...they will have to level a few ancient heritage sites first for that

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Truthmonger wrote:

I started looking into this a couple years ago, when I was doing a great deal of reading about Iraq. Bill Kristol is a slimy, manipulative fuck who creeps me out.

Here's a clip from the Biotic Baking Brigade slamming a pie into his face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDEoLJGyCAo

Freeze frame of the beautiful moment:
http://www.devrije.nl/archives/getaart.jpg

nice!

Too bad it wasn't a taste of his own medicine....he'd be dead.

Open

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

What's so wrong about constructing 22 buildings to house 5,500 people on 104 acres in the center of another country's capital at a cost of over 1 billion dollars and calling it "an embassy"?

that sounds normal to me.
haventy you seen all the "embassies" that other countries have built in DC that sprawl over 100 acres?

My favorite line from that article is the State Department spokesperson saying, “It’s somewhat self-evident that there’s going to be a fairly sizable commitment to Iraq by the U.S. government in all forms for several years" ...

oh yeah "somewhat evident" and "several years" ...

SEVERAL YEARS?
YOU THINK?

$1,000,000,000 PLUS price tag on 104 acres, 22 buildings.
Yeah ... i guess we may be planning to have a bit of an extended picnic there ... i mean ... nothing "long term" but sure ... several years ...

we'll just open the air-plug and deflate the thing, roll it on to a jumbo jet and fly it home when we are done with our little "camp out" in "several years"

... sigh.
:(

and they say this war isnt a imperialistic venture.

DriftingByTheStorm

Open wrote:

and they say this war isnt a imperialistic venture.

actually.
some of them (PNAC members, specificaly) are shameless in their proclaimations that it is ...
"Pax Americana"
"Pax Americana" search returns within newamericancentury.org (pnac) only ...

"Preserving Pax Americana" !?!

Bu2

and let America become King?

Pax This.

Eliot Rosewater

Cosmo wrote:

We cannot leave Iraq. All this "Stand up the Iraqi forces so we can stand down" is a bunch of bullshit. Why? Because of this:
Who runs the Command and Control over there?
Who provides air support?
Who provides intelligence?
Who handles the logistics and supplies?
Who runs the combat medical system?
Answer: The U.S. Military.
...
Who will run these vital operations if we leave?
Answer: Not any Iraqis.
...
And what happens when a Democracy that we set up... tells us we have to leave? Do we stay against their will? Is that part of 'Spreading Demoocracy'?

The "democracy" we set up will see it's fate no matter what. How's it working now? We have a moral obligation to leave and to leave now. No one knows what will happen if or when we do. But one thing is certain as long as we stay in Iraq - Mounting death tolls. With up to 650,000 innocent Iraqis dead, and a now worse and more deadly situation than under Saddam's rule, who can argue that the only moral thing to do is to give them their country back?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Think of all the clued out people who still think it's about terrorism.

...and they are adamant in their ignorance.

jamtemplechains

it's sick beyond any plausible cure. i don't know if we'll ever get out of there. it's sad how many soldiers die for this "cause" and i hope to god somebody comes up with a solution to make them safe again and bring them home, but it's also horrifying to think of the slaughter that would take place between sunnis and shiites if the military because immediately absent. it's times like these i wish i'd been born in norway or something, so i could just look on and say 'what's wrong with those goddamn americans!??' instead of having to mope around constantly with 'what's wrong with US!!??' :(

jamtemplechains

don't gimme no wrote:

The "democracy" we set up will see it's fate no matter what. How's it working now? We have a moral obligation to leave and to leave now. No one knows what will happen if or when we do. But one thing is certain as long as we stay in Iraq - Mounting death tolls. With up to 650,000 innocent Iraqis dead, and a now worse and more deadly situation than under Saddam's rule, who can argue that the only moral thing to do is to give them their country back?

i certainly agree we need to get out of there, but to leave right now....i just don't know. with the horribly uneven distribution of power between the shiites and the sunnis, if you think 650,000 is a big number, wait until the u.s isn't policing the area. it's the most disgustingly sticky situation imaginable

DriftingByTheStorm

Latest conclusion: The "Iraq Situation" is just one malfeasant symptom of end stage terminal illness ... that terminal illness being unbridled capitalism ... a pseudo-political structure that requires "infinite growth" in a finite world ...

When you are already at your physical limits of growth (and we are) in a country where to stop growing means to have systemic collapse, then the only way to continue to grow is through increasingly artificial means ... ie ... stealing resources from other countries ...

We are on a collision course for a global collapse of empire.
make no mistake about it.

darthvedder81

The mentality of "winning" a war in a country and then leaving it is not applicable when you are fighting terrorist forces. It's not 1946 anymore. We aren't "at war" with Iraq right now, Iraq is simply a battleground, a "psychotic salt-lick" as Dennis Miller calls it. We could leave Iraq but that won't be the end of the war. Iran is a powder-keg right now and if you think negotiation with the likes Ahamaramadinajadadingdong is possible you're a fool. Not to mention al qaeda is all over the place anyway with many cells in Europe, Asia and even the U.S. I agree that war sucks. But terrorism sucks. Islamo-fascists strapping bombs to 5 year olds sucks. Whatever happens in Iraq won't change the fact that we are at war with the most intolerant, racist, sexist, fascist force in history. The left's plan of "being nice and listening" isn't going to work.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

darthvedder81 wrote:

The mentality of "winning" a war in a country and then leaving it is not applicable when you are fighting terrorist forces. It's not 1946 anymore. We aren't "at war" with Iraq right now, Iraq is simply a battleground, a "psychotic salt-lick" as Dennis Miller calls it. We could leave Iraq but that won't be the end of the war. Iran is a powder-keg right now and if you think negotiation with the likes Ahamaramadinajadadingdong is possible you're a fool. Not to mention al qaeda is all over the place anyway with many cells in Europe, Asia and even the U.S. I agree that war sucks. But terrorism sucks. Islamo-fascists strapping bombs to 5 year olds sucks. Whatever happens in Iraq won't change the fact that we are at war with the most intolerant, racist, sexist, fascist force in history. The left's plan of "being nice and listening" isn't going to work.

Do you understand why Islamists do what they do? because it sure sounds like you don't.