Obama Vs. McCain

1246

Comments

  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Lebanon and Palestine.

    Lebanon wasn't destroyed, albeit it was pretty badly wrecked. Palestine is not a country.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Ugh, feels like I've defended Obama.
    :)

    But truly, though ... In this case, he's right.

    At least you've been consistent. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    There's a difference between direct threats (which I don't generally believe in) and showing all of one's cards, though.


    There's a difference in believing in a peaceful solution and proving it verses leaving threats on the table...which are only there in fear.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Lebanon wasn't destroyed, albeit it was pretty badly wrecked. Palestine is not a country.


    From what I saw...I'm sticking with destroyed.

    And of course Palestine isn'ta country....but Israel, of course, is. How dare anyone say Israel doesn't have a right to exist and how easy these same people can do exactly that with Palestine.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    From what I saw...I'm sticking with destroyed.

    And of course Palestine isn'ta country....but Israel, of course, is. How dare anyone say Israel doesn't have a right to exist and how easy these same people can do exactly that with Palestine.

    Palestine is to terrorists what the laundry shop was to 1930's mobsters. Obviously. :rolleyes:
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Its Evolution Baby
    Its Evolution Baby Posts: 849
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    From what I saw...I'm sticking with destroyed.

    And of course Palestine isn'ta country....but Israel, of course, is. How dare anyone say Israel doesn't have a right to exist and how easy these same people can do exactly that with Palestine.

    Lebanon were not saints in that conflict even if Israel crossed the line. And I do think the Palistinians and Israel should both be countries. I hope they can eventually figure out a border that works for both of them. I'm not holding my breath on that however.
    10/31/2000 (****)
    6/7/2003 (***1/2)
    7/9/2006 (****1/2)
    7/13/2006 (**** )
    4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
    6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
    10/1/2009 LA II (****)
    10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    Lebanon were not saints in that conflict even if Israel crossed the line. And I do think the Palistinians and Israel should both be countries. I hope they can eventually figure out a border that works for both of them. I'm not holding my breath on that however.


    Lebanon did not attack Israel.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • JD Sal
    JD Sal Posts: 790
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And that makes so much sense!!! If I were Iran that's exactly what I'd do, too! I'd attack a country with a stockpile of nukes and various other weapons that also has a history of completely destroying other countries when they felt like it and is always 100% backed by the world's only superpower who also happens to be armed to the teeth while me being Iran doesn't even have 1 nuke to my name!!!!!!

    Perfect logic there!

    Cut off Fox News sometime.

    Didn't you once post that Bush and his administration purposely fucked up countless times for the 8 years that he was in office in order to cover up the inside job on 9/11 and make everyone think he was too incompetent to pull it off?

    I respect your opinion and all, but that logic is about as bad as it gets.
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    JD Sal wrote:
    Didn't you once post that Bush and his administration purposely fucked up countless times for the 8 years that he was in office in order to cover up the inside job on 9/11 and make everyone think he was too incompetent to pull it off?

    I respect your opinion and all, but that logic is about as bad as it gets.

    No, I don't think that's quite how I articulated that line of thinking. I said they play dumb whenever their decisions seem to be in direct conflict with the interests of the American people...when actually these decisions have gotten them exactly what they wanted in the first place (to make them and their cronies richer and more powerful). And I've went on to add that they use this whole perception of incompetence to their advantage and it's working like a charm actually.

    Where's the flaw in this logic? Even if you don't agree with it, I don't see any bad logic.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    Palestine is to terrorists what the laundry shop was to 1930's mobsters. Obviously. :rolleyes:

    Eye-Rolly McGee:
    I am not one of those people that says Palestine should not be a country. I believe in a two-state solution.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Eye-Rolly McGee:
    I am not one of those people that says Palestine should not be a country. I believe in a two-state solution.


    Then why call one a country and act like the people who lived there before do not qualify?

    I'm glad to hear you believe in a two-state solution, btw. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • JD Sal
    JD Sal Posts: 790
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    No, I don't think that's quite how I articulated that line of thinking. I said they play dumb whenever their decisions seem to be in direct conflict with the interests of the American people...when actually these decisions have gotten them exactly what they wanted in the first place (to make them and their cronies richer and more powerful). And I've went on to add that they use this whole perception of incompetence to their advantage and it's working like a charm actually.

    Where's the flaw in this logic? Even if you don't agree with it, I don't see any bad logic.

    I think your memory is a little fuzzy.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=276094

    Pages 4 and 5
    JD Sal wrote:
    It's possible, but not with the current administration. They've fucked up everything they've touched, started an unncesseary war that will inevitably go down as the greatest foreign policy blunder in history, yet they could somehow manage to pull off 9/11 and not plant the WMD's. It's illogicial at best. Think of all that Bush and co has fucked up and mismanaged during their 8 years, and please tell me why you think they were somehow able to pull off 9/11, but not follow through with simply planting WMDs. Please think this over. .
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think could very well be a brilliant approach to have the public believe this admin is simply 'feeble' and 'incapable'. They have, afterall, accomplished everything they set out to do. Keeping this war a fiasco and neverending mess keeps us over there indefinitely. Which in turns keeps the funding pouring in for the war machine, defense contractors and profiteers. How have they not gotten what they set out to do?
    JD Sal wrote:
    So let me get this straight. You think the Bush administration fucked up for 8 years to brilliantly show their ineptitude and make an inside 9/11 job seem unfeasible? That is absolutely ludicrous.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think there is plenty of logic in what I said. Just proclaiming how ludicrous you think it is doesn't really tell me anything about why. This is why I don't like these discussions. People start acting like their view can be the only one possible and shut their ears to anything else. I'm open...if you can give me a reply that is substantial instead of remarks on how crazy you think it is. All you need to do is civilly tell me why you disagree and we can go from there. If you've got the market cornered on logic then you should have no problems carrying about a discussion on this with a level head.

    How have they failed at getting what they set out to do?
    Why is it ludicrous to think they would manipulate the public into thinking they are a bunch of inept morons?
    Hasn't this perpetual war worked out well for the Bush cronies?
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    JD Sal wrote:
    I think your memory is a little fuzzy.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=276094

    Pages 4 and 5


    Then I explained it better just now.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • JD Sal
    JD Sal Posts: 790
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Then I explained it better just now.

    So, to clarify, you don't think that Bush fucked up for 8 years as a brilliant plan to act incompetent and make an inside 9/11 job seem unfeasible?
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    JD Sal wrote:
    So, to clarify, you don't think that Bush fucked up for 8 years as a brilliant plan to act incompetent and make an inside 9/11 job seem unfeasible?
    Bush has been a fuckup for 8 years...what that implies...well..
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    JD Sal wrote:
    So, to clarify, you don't think that Bush fucked up for 8 years as a brilliant plan to act incompetent and make an inside 9/11 job seem unfeasible?


    I think the whole 'incompetent' shtick is to make the admin seem less corrupt, dishonest and criminal and more like dumbasses, instead. They want it to seem like they just fucked up but really they have achieved exactly what they set out to without regard to the consequences it would cause. They really don't care.

    ...where's the contradiction?

    and why is that such a stretch, anyway? You act like you've never seen a person play dumb when they are busted doing something they shouldn't be.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    I would love to hear Nader explain how he would have avoided War when the South seceded, when Pearl Harbor was attacked and Jews were being slaughtered, after 3000 Americans died on 9/11. At all of those points a certain amount of force was necessary like it or not. Iraq is what was never necessary and is why Bush is the worst President of all time.

    My guess is that Nader would act aggressively if we were attacked or threatened. If not then he's as much of a failure as Bush because the number one job as president is to protect the people and the country. If we were attacked with no response then what would prevent us from being attacked again???

    Nader would send in his cavalry of hippies riding on unicorns to dispatch the enemies with tofu farts.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    flywallyfly wrote:
    Nader would send in his cavalry of hippies riding on unicorns to dispatch the enemies with tofu farts.


    You really need to work on some new material. Just a friendly tip.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Then why call one a country and act like the people who lived there before do not qualify?

    I'm glad to hear you believe in a two-state solution, btw. :)

    Because I find language to the effect of "Israel destroyed Palestine" to be too strong ... There was no Palestine, and no one has been destroyed (albeit many have been killed). There needs to be a Palestinian state NOW, for various reasons. Not the least of which is a basic need to separate two sides who won't stop fighting.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Because I find language to the effect of "Israel destroyed Palestine" to be too strong ... There was no Palestine, and no one has been destroyed (albeit many have been killed). There needs to be a Palestinian state NOW, for various reasons. Not the least of which is a basic need to separate two sides who won't stop fighting.

    If you want to say that they didn't destroy an 'official' country with established borders and recognition...fine.

    But I think the bigger point is that Israel destroyed the Palestinian's home, where they lived, their complete way of life...pushed them aside as 'undeserving' of this land they had been living on and made it a country for them to have instead. They disregarded them and treated them like animals in the way of their plans.

    Official country or not....it doesn't excuse their actions in my eyes. It only changes the terminology.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

Categories