Just something to make Nader's site better, IMO, would be not just to list "Off the Table," but to make it a link that, when clicked, displays why he is saying it is off the table.
Just something to make Nader's site better, IMO, would be not just to list "Off the Table," but to make it a link that, when clicked, displays why he is saying it is off the table.
Yeah, busy busy busy....his campaign is working right now just for ballot access in all 50 states. And that is the current focus.
Nader has done activist work on all these issues and his stances are clear but you will have to do some googling until then because his campaign sent out an email stating they are planning on making the site much more detailed but it is an 'in the works' project and our resources are being divided up else where at the moment.
Yeah, busy busy busy....his campaign is working right now just for ballot access in all 50 states. And that is the current focus.
Nader has done activist work on all these issues and his stances are clear but you will have to do some googling until then because his campaign sent out an email stating they are planning on making the site much more detailed but it is an 'in the works' project and our resources are being divided up else where at the moment.
Yeah, I get that and can relate. With grad school, planning a wedding, and working way more than full time, I just wish there was a reliable site I could go to that would accurately and adequately show the pros and cons of all candidates. I just don't have the time to do all the googling.
Yeah, I get that and can relate. With grad school, planning a wedding, and working way more than full time, I just wish there was a reliable site I could go to that would accurately and adequately show the pros and cons of all candidates. I just don't have the time to do all the googling.
Thanks for the link, BTW.
No problem
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
By Alec MacGillis
TOLEDO -- So this is what being a front-runner deep in primary season looks like: taking flak on three sides.
Sen. Barack Obama found himself today facing insinuations from Republicans that he lacks patriotism, charges from Hillary Clinton that he is a hypocrite on campaign ethics, and put-downs from Ralph Nader, who in announcing his third-party candidacy this morning dismissed Obama as well-intentioned but in hock to the corporate agenda.
So far, at least, Obama is showing that he can stand his ground and return fire on all fronts.
At a gypsum manufacturing plant in Lorain, Ohio, today, he was asked about indications that Republicans are preparing a line of attack impugning his patriotism, pulling together several things: a photograph that showed him singing the national anthem without putting his hand over his heart; his decision not to wear an American flag pin on his lapel; his (tenuous) connection with a former Weatherman; and his wife's recent comment about not being proud of America until this campaign.
"The way I will respond to it is with the truth. I owe everything I am to this country. The reason I came to national attention was a speech in which I spoke of my love for this country," he said. "The notion that I am disqualified because at one event I was singing the national anthem but failed to put my hand over my heart -- if that were the case, that must disqualify half the people who've ever gone to a football game."
His wife, he said, had clarified her comments to make clear that what she meant was that this was the first time she was "proud of politics in America, and that's true of a lot of people." As for the pin, he said, "if we want to start getting into those definitions of patriotism," then he would come back with questions for a "a party that presided over a war where the troops that didn't get the body armor they needed" and is "undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary."
"That's a debate I'm more than willing to have," he said. "We'll see what the Americans think is the true definition of patriotism."
Next, he was asked about Nader's comments on "Meet the Press," in which Nader called Obama a "person of substance" but added that "his better instincts and his knowledge have been censored by himself."
Obama's answer was even tougher than one he gave Saturday about Nader. "Ralph Nader's view is, unless it's Ralph Nader, then you're not tough enough on any of these issues," he said. "He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about."
He added, "Ralph Nader deserved enormous credit for the work he did as consumer advocate." But, he concluded, "His function as perennial presidential candidate is not helping put food on the table."
Finally, Obama was asked again about Clinton's accusation that it was unfair to attack her for being part of the Clinton White House that approved NAFTA, when she has more recently made clear her ambivalence about the trade deal. Clinton has lambasted him all weekend for tactics she said were reminiscent of Karl Rove and dared him to "meet me in Ohio" to take up the dispute.
Obama shot back that he was on solid ground in his NAFTA attack, which has the potential to stir a lot of voters in a state where the trade deal is deeply unpopular.
"She's essentially presented herself as co-president during the Clinton years. Every good thing that happened she says she was a part of," he said. "So the notion that she can selectively pick what you take credit for and then run away from what isn't politically convenient, that doesn't make sense. If she's suggesting she had nothing to do with economic policy in the Clinton White House, then it would not be fair [to attack her on NAFTA], but as you know, that's not the claim that she's making."
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Just something to make Nader's site better, IMO, would be not just to list "Off the Table," but to make it a link that, when clicked, displays why he is saying it is off the table.
I was just going to say that. Its so true and if you read his ideas often times he doesn't mention where Obama and McCain stand on the issues compared to him.
It's very misleading imo.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
By Alec MacGillis
TOLEDO -- So this is what being a front-runner deep in primary season looks like: taking flak on three sides.
Sen. Barack Obama found himself today facing insinuations from Republicans that he lacks patriotism, charges from Hillary Clinton that he is a hypocrite on campaign ethics, and put-downs from Ralph Nader, who in announcing his third-party candidacy this morning dismissed Obama as well-intentioned but in hock to the corporate agenda.
So far, at least, Obama is showing that he can stand his ground and return fire on all fronts.
At a gypsum manufacturing plant in Lorain, Ohio, today, he was asked about indications that Republicans are preparing a line of attack impugning his patriotism, pulling together several things: a photograph that showed him singing the national anthem without putting his hand over his heart; his decision not to wear an American flag pin on his lapel; his (tenuous) connection with a former Weatherman; and his wife's recent comment about not being proud of America until this campaign.
"The way I will respond to it is with the truth. I owe everything I am to this country. The reason I came to national attention was a speech in which I spoke of my love for this country," he said. "The notion that I am disqualified because at one event I was singing the national anthem but failed to put my hand over my heart -- if that were the case, that must disqualify half the people who've ever gone to a football game."
His wife, he said, had clarified her comments to make clear that what she meant was that this was the first time she was "proud of politics in America, and that's true of a lot of people." As for the pin, he said, "if we want to start getting into those definitions of patriotism," then he would come back with questions for a "a party that presided over a war where the troops that didn't get the body armor they needed" and is "undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary."
"That's a debate I'm more than willing to have," he said. "We'll see what the Americans think is the true definition of patriotism."
Next, he was asked about Nader's comments on "Meet the Press," in which Nader called Obama a "person of substance" but added that "his better instincts and his knowledge have been censored by himself."
Obama's answer was even tougher than one he gave Saturday about Nader. "Ralph Nader's view is, unless it's Ralph Nader, then you're not tough enough on any of these issues," he said. "He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about."
He added, "Ralph Nader deserved enormous credit for the work he did as consumer advocate." But, he concluded, "His function as perennial presidential candidate is not helping put food on the table."
Finally, Obama was asked again about Clinton's accusation that it was unfair to attack her for being part of the Clinton White House that approved NAFTA, when she has more recently made clear her ambivalence about the trade deal. Clinton has lambasted him all weekend for tactics she said were reminiscent of Karl Rove and dared him to "meet me in Ohio" to take up the dispute.
Obama shot back that he was on solid ground in his NAFTA attack, which has the potential to stir a lot of voters in a state where the trade deal is deeply unpopular.
"She's essentially presented herself as co-president during the Clinton years. Every good thing that happened she says she was a part of," he said. "So the notion that she can selectively pick what you take credit for and then run away from what isn't politically convenient, that doesn't make sense. If she's suggesting she had nothing to do with economic policy in the Clinton White House, then it would not be fair [to attack her on NAFTA], but as you know, that's not the claim that she's making."
That article is pure fluff based on Obama's opinions and not based on anything real like voting record and actions of his since being in the Senate.
I can post a million opinions that will back Nader up and I have but we were talking about stances on the issues here.
How is an opinion piece less fluffy than a news story about Obama being attacked on all fronts?
I bring up the issues but you ignore Obama's stance on the Iraq War saying he wants troops until 2013 when he proposed legislation in Congress last year to have them out by 3/31/08. The bill was defeated. He also has said that combat troops would be out within 16 months. The remaining troops will be there for security purposes. That is why he doesn't say that all troops will be out by 2013. Because it won't be true. If Nader says all troops out within 6 months, what will happen if Iraq slips into even more violence and disorder? It would make what Bush did to there country even worse.
The majority of the combat troops will come home under Obama. He has said it since day one and hasn't said anything to make me think different. I am also a realist and know we still have stations in Korea and Vietnam and will have to add Iraq to that list.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Next, he was asked about Nader's comments on "Meet the Press," in which Nader called Obama a "person of substance" but added that "his better instincts and his knowledge have been censored by himself."
Obama's answer was even tougher than one he gave Saturday about Nader. "Ralph Nader's view is, unless it's Ralph Nader, then you're not tough enough on any of these issues," he said. "He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about."
He added, "Ralph Nader deserved enormous credit for the work he did as consumer advocate." But, he concluded, "His function as perennial presidential candidate is not helping put food on the table."
...
I question the intelligence of any person who says Ralph Nader doesn't know what he's talking about.
People forget that Gore ran much more conservatively than Clinton had and the person he has become is not one concerned with being elected to office.
*******************************************************
I'd like to know, if people are so confident that Obama is the best democratic presidential candidate to come along in decades, why are they still so afraid of Nader impacting the election?
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I'd like to know, if people are so confident that Obama is the best democratic presidential candidate to come along in decades, why are they still so afraid of Nader impacting the election?
Because Obama is the only possible electable candidate and any opposition is not just futile, it's an affront to democracy.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Because Obama is the only possible electable candidate and any opposition is not just futile, it's an affront to democracy.
That's so true, it's sad.
I had somebody tell me the other day that he didn't want Nader on the ballot, 'cause he wanted to keep things simple, just two parties.
I couldn't help myself and responded, "Well, maybe someday things will be super simple, just ONE party, ya know - a dictatorship." :cool:
I told my sister about this, and she was like, "Oh god, I know you, you said it with sarcastic sass and a great big smile, didn't you?"
I sure as hell did.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Comments
Yeah, busy busy busy....his campaign is working right now just for ballot access in all 50 states. And that is the current focus.
Nader has done activist work on all these issues and his stances are clear but you will have to do some googling until then because his campaign sent out an email stating they are planning on making the site much more detailed but it is an 'in the works' project and our resources are being divided up else where at the moment.
I posted a great interview on his environmental stance if you are interested.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=287868
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yeah, I get that and can relate. With grad school, planning a wedding, and working way more than full time, I just wish there was a reliable site I could go to that would accurately and adequately show the pros and cons of all candidates. I just don't have the time to do all the googling.
Thanks for the link, BTW.
No problem
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/24/newly_engaged_in_a_threefront.html?hpid=topnews
Newly Engaged in a Three-Front War
By Alec MacGillis
TOLEDO -- So this is what being a front-runner deep in primary season looks like: taking flak on three sides.
Sen. Barack Obama found himself today facing insinuations from Republicans that he lacks patriotism, charges from Hillary Clinton that he is a hypocrite on campaign ethics, and put-downs from Ralph Nader, who in announcing his third-party candidacy this morning dismissed Obama as well-intentioned but in hock to the corporate agenda.
So far, at least, Obama is showing that he can stand his ground and return fire on all fronts.
At a gypsum manufacturing plant in Lorain, Ohio, today, he was asked about indications that Republicans are preparing a line of attack impugning his patriotism, pulling together several things: a photograph that showed him singing the national anthem without putting his hand over his heart; his decision not to wear an American flag pin on his lapel; his (tenuous) connection with a former Weatherman; and his wife's recent comment about not being proud of America until this campaign.
"The way I will respond to it is with the truth. I owe everything I am to this country. The reason I came to national attention was a speech in which I spoke of my love for this country," he said. "The notion that I am disqualified because at one event I was singing the national anthem but failed to put my hand over my heart -- if that were the case, that must disqualify half the people who've ever gone to a football game."
His wife, he said, had clarified her comments to make clear that what she meant was that this was the first time she was "proud of politics in America, and that's true of a lot of people." As for the pin, he said, "if we want to start getting into those definitions of patriotism," then he would come back with questions for a "a party that presided over a war where the troops that didn't get the body armor they needed" and is "undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary."
"That's a debate I'm more than willing to have," he said. "We'll see what the Americans think is the true definition of patriotism."
Next, he was asked about Nader's comments on "Meet the Press," in which Nader called Obama a "person of substance" but added that "his better instincts and his knowledge have been censored by himself."
Obama's answer was even tougher than one he gave Saturday about Nader. "Ralph Nader's view is, unless it's Ralph Nader, then you're not tough enough on any of these issues," he said. "He thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush. I think eight years later, people realize Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about."
He added, "Ralph Nader deserved enormous credit for the work he did as consumer advocate." But, he concluded, "His function as perennial presidential candidate is not helping put food on the table."
Finally, Obama was asked again about Clinton's accusation that it was unfair to attack her for being part of the Clinton White House that approved NAFTA, when she has more recently made clear her ambivalence about the trade deal. Clinton has lambasted him all weekend for tactics she said were reminiscent of Karl Rove and dared him to "meet me in Ohio" to take up the dispute.
Obama shot back that he was on solid ground in his NAFTA attack, which has the potential to stir a lot of voters in a state where the trade deal is deeply unpopular.
"She's essentially presented herself as co-president during the Clinton years. Every good thing that happened she says she was a part of," he said. "So the notion that she can selectively pick what you take credit for and then run away from what isn't politically convenient, that doesn't make sense. If she's suggesting she had nothing to do with economic policy in the Clinton White House, then it would not be fair [to attack her on NAFTA], but as you know, that's not the claim that she's making."
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I was just going to say that. Its so true and if you read his ideas often times he doesn't mention where Obama and McCain stand on the issues compared to him.
It's very misleading imo.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
That article is pure fluff based on Obama's opinions and not based on anything real like voting record and actions of his since being in the Senate.
I can post a million opinions that will back Nader up and I have but we were talking about stances on the issues here.
http://counterpunch.org/colby02262008.html
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How is an opinion piece less fluffy than a news story about Obama being attacked on all fronts?
I bring up the issues but you ignore Obama's stance on the Iraq War saying he wants troops until 2013 when he proposed legislation in Congress last year to have them out by 3/31/08. The bill was defeated. He also has said that combat troops would be out within 16 months. The remaining troops will be there for security purposes. That is why he doesn't say that all troops will be out by 2013. Because it won't be true. If Nader says all troops out within 6 months, what will happen if Iraq slips into even more violence and disorder? It would make what Bush did to there country even worse.
The majority of the combat troops will come home under Obama. He has said it since day one and hasn't said anything to make me think different. I am also a realist and know we still have stations in Korea and Vietnam and will have to add Iraq to that list.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I know, we agreed about it on the other thread.
I question the intelligence of any person who says Ralph Nader doesn't know what he's talking about.
People forget that Gore ran much more conservatively than Clinton had and the person he has become is not one concerned with being elected to office.
*******************************************************
I'd like to know, if people are so confident that Obama is the best democratic presidential candidate to come along in decades, why are they still so afraid of Nader impacting the election?
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Because Obama is the only possible electable candidate and any opposition is not just futile, it's an affront to democracy.
That's so true, it's sad.
I had somebody tell me the other day that he didn't want Nader on the ballot, 'cause he wanted to keep things simple, just two parties.
I couldn't help myself and responded, "Well, maybe someday things will be super simple, just ONE party, ya know - a dictatorship." :cool:
I told my sister about this, and she was like, "Oh god, I know you, you said it with sarcastic sass and a great big smile, didn't you?"
I sure as hell did.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Excellent - well said!