Black people "less intelligent" claims scientist

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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Yeah that's all good, but who has the bigger rims?

    You always find some humor in these weak subject matters. So what do you think original poster to this thread?

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    g under p wrote:
    You always find some humor in these weak subject matters. So what do you think original poster to this thread?

    Peace

    I think it's a load of bunk. I don't buy into that kind of thing.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • Scubascott
    Scubascott Posts: 815
    macgyver06 wrote:
    i wonder what crick thinks of all this

    Crick thinks its a crock.

    Or he might, if he was still alive. As ridiculous as it sounds, it is an interesting question. We know that a lot of genetic characteristics other than skin and hair colour etc vary between races. But its much easier to measure a genetic difference at a single locus like sickle cell anaemia for example, than it is to measure a complicated trait like intelligence, which is almost certainly developed by complex interactions between many genes and environmental influences. As far as I know nobody has identified a defining 'smart' gene. Watson seems to be massively oversimplifying things. He seems to be suggesting that there are only two types of people on earth, and as Anhimas pointed out, he's ignoring cultural and environmental factors. While he's at it why doesn't he claim that Jews are smarter than Arabs, or Melanesians are smarter than Chinese or whatever?
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Scubascott wrote:
    Crick thinks its a crock.

    Or he might, if he was still alive. As ridiculous as it sounds, it is an interesting question. We know that a lot of genetic characteristics other than skin and hair colour etc vary between races. But its much easier to measure a genetic difference at a single locus like sickle cell anaemia for example, than it is to measure a complicated trait like intelligence, which is almost certainly developed by complex interactions between many genes and environmental influences. As far as I know nobody has identified a defining 'smart' gene. Watson seems to be massively oversimplifying things. He seems to be suggesting that there are only two types of people on earth, and as Anhimas pointed out, he's ignoring cultural and environmental factors. While he's at it why doesn't he claim that Jews are smarter than Arabs, or Melanesians are smarter than Chinese or whatever?

    As much as anyone wants to claim to be smarter (as this dud wants), errr...um,

    hit it Ed:

    ...i gather speed...from you fucking with me...
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not gonna call myself white anymore. I'll be FFCC99 from now on.

    I recognize my ancestors. WE are ancestors in the making. What gives?
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  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    what a nutter. i say give me some solid unbiased proof, so far its all theories which might be right or might be wrong.

    it's like one scientist was saying to everyone that the planet was round when everyone thought it wasn't. they should all have some god damn evidence.





    :)
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    g under p wrote:
    You always find some humor in these weak subject matters. So what do you think original poster to this thread?

    Peace

    me?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    harrymanback wrote:
    Truth is, against popular opinion, all men are not created equal. Not to be an asshole, but is it possible? Sure he should know that his statements would not be met with open arms, but could it be possible? Stereotype or no stereotype, blacks are more athletic than whites. Look at professional sports and that is all the proof you need. Sure there are whites who may be more athletic than blacks, but overall there is no comparison. Conversely, could it be that blacks are less intelligent than whites.


    All men ARE created equal. But they are not all born to the same social status/advantages, but they are equal in value as human beings, like it or not.

    And as for your other comment, SOME blacks are more athletic than whites, not all. SOME whites are more athletic than blacks. not all. Therefore SOME blacks could be more intelligent than whites and some less. None of it is absolute. Just because one person of one race achieves something doesn't mean that it should be used as a reflection on the rest of the race.

    Stereotypes can make or break people. Black kids might get into sport more because of the stereotype and they're given more opportunities etc for this. But are they treated equally well elsewhere? No, because of the stereotype "blacks are good at athletics" so that's all they get.

    Whereas white kids who are good at sport will get opportunities too, but if they want to go to university or get a high-level white collar job they'll get those too - because of the stereotype that they are presumed to be intelligent (even if they are not). Whereas there are always reservations around black people, partly because of the stereotype that they are "good at sport" and "less intelligent". Whether or not there's any truth in any of it is another matter.

    I mean I'm not going to assume you're intelligent just because some other guy of your race did something intelligent, would you? That wouldn't be very intelligent :) But people always do for some reason.
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Restless Soul wrote:
    All men ARE created equal. But they are not all born to the same social status/advantages, but they are equal in value as human beings, like it or not.

    where in his post did he come anywhere near implying otherwise? i saw no indication he said anything along the lines of whites having more value.
    Restless Soul wrote:
    And as for your other comment, SOME blacks are more athletic than whites, not all. SOME whites are more athletic than blacks. not all. Therefore SOME blacks could be more intelligent than whites and some less. None of it is absolute. Just because one person of one race achieves something doesn't mean that it should be used as a reflection on the rest of the race.

    the point is when it is not "some" but "most". sociological studies can incredibly valuable. should we ignore that most unplanned pregnancies occur in lower income households becos it might hurt their feelings about being poor? or should we acknowledge that there are different circumstances and factors at work and tailor or responses accordingly to be more effective?

    that said, measures of intelligence are pretty arbitrary and abstract. it's difficult to say objectively x group is more/less intelligent than y and even harder to say what that means. this scientist offered no scientific support for his views or any perspective on what it means.
    Restless Soul wrote:
    Stereotypes can make or break people. Black kids might get into sport more because of the stereotype and they're given more opportunities etc for this. But are they treated equally well elsewhere? No, because of the stereotype "blacks are good at athletics" so that's all they get.

    Whereas white kids who are good at sport will get opportunities too, but if they want to go to university or get a high-level white collar job they'll get those too - because of the stereotype that they are presumed to be intelligent (even if they are not). Whereas there are always reservations around black people, partly because of the stereotype that they are "good at sport" and "less intelligent". Whether or not there's any truth in any of it is another matter.

    go to a college admissions office and then come back and tell me it's hard for intelligent black people to get into college. admissions people are creaming themselves to recruit intelligent minority candidates. and you cannot tell me blacks get more opportunity to play sports... how many black people are playing hockey? whites have plenty of opportunity, they are being phased out becos they cannot compete. ps. there is scientific support for this. i don't remember the study but there was some biologist who did a study about how a particular set of muscles in the leg was invariably longer in black men which helped them to run faster and jump higher.
    Restless Soul wrote:
    I mean I'm not going to assume you're intelligent just because some other guy of your race did something intelligent, would you? That wouldn't be very intelligent :) But people always do for some reason.

    again, i didn't see him advocate this conclusion anywhere. nowhere did he say you should assume any black dude you meet is stupid and any white guy you meet is smart. but this does have sociological value in terms of evaluating how we tackle various educational issues.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    MrSmith wrote:
    an apology of some sort?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071018/ap_on_sc/controversial_scientist



    As with any scientist at his level he's arrogant, full of himself and brilliant. His lectures are insightful and yes, even he has his boring moments. In the context of his work many associated theories applied to his initial DNA tracking has help identify genetic disorders associated in the black population like sickle cell. Genetics is simply a study of why you are and how you got to be that way and and can I help. Many times it does have to be evaluated and discussed not only in racial and ethnic terminology but also as it relates in developmental, social and environmental impacts. Yet, there's a way to say something as a scientist and a general person. His statement was wrong on both levels, as a scientist and a man of intelligence and he recognized that and the apology was about as genuine as you'd get from him because the controversy it's not worth his reputation.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    some scientists waste their time and talent on some useless shit when they could be applied to greater causes
  • drew2420
    drew2420 Posts: 61
    Why are we obsessed with competition? Who cares who is smarter than the other. To me it makes little difference, of course there is variable differences due to evolutionary race history. Why dont we focus our time and energy on improving intelligence and improving the situations that hinder intellectual growth for white people, black people, red people, blue people, etc.

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