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Why does everyone believe the latest intel????

810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
edited December 2007 in A Moving Train
aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?
i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?
    ..
    That's the same thing I am wondering.
    If the Intelligence in Iraq was completely off-base... why should any of us believe the Intelligence reports coming out of Iran?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Cosmo wrote:
    ..
    That's the same thing I am wondering.
    If the Intelligence in Iraq was completely off-base... why should any of us believe the Intelligence reports coming out of Iran?

    Because the intelligence community never claimed that Iraq was a threat to the security of the western world and that it possessed weapons of mass destruction. This was the claim made by politicians after they doctored the intelligence and exaggerated any threat.
    Remember Collin Powell at the U.N holding up pictures of trucks and claiming that they may be used to transport W.M.D's? And how he then held up some satellite pictures of some warehouses or factory buildings and claimed that these may be used to build W.M.D's? What a joke that was!
    Has everyone here forgotten the 'Secret downing street memo' which made it clear that the politicians knew perfectly well Iraq posed no threat in 2003?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article387374.ece
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?



    hahahahahahaha


    you have no clue what to do now... this is so funny for all of those bomb iran hard liners that havent had a clue what they were talking about since jump street

    this american intel report is actually well behind the IAEA reports saying THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PURSUING WEAPONIZATION

    the shit has been out there in clear view for quite some time...
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    http://www.youtube.com/v/iXgxemYiXQ4&rel=1
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    my2hands wrote:
    hahahahahahaha


    you have no clue what to do now... this is so funny for all of those bomb iran hard liners that havent had a clue what they were talking about since jump street

    it's a good question - flake off


    roland - love the tune
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because the intelligence community never claimed that Iraq was a threat to the security of the western world and that it possessed weapons of mass destruction. This was the claim made by politicians after they doctored the intelligence and exaggerated any threat.
    Remember Collin Powell at the U.N holding up pictures of trucks and claiming that they may be used to transport W.M.D's? And how he then held up some satellite pictures of some warehouses or factory buildings and claimed that these may be used to build W.M.D's? What a joke that was!
    Has everyone here forgotten the 'Secret downing street memo' which made it clear that the politicians knew perfectly well Iraq posed no threat in 2003?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article387374.ece

    Exactly... a big difference this time around. Instead of politicians taking raw intelligence data and making whatever conclusion they want to fit their agenda, this intelligence is actually a consensus opinion and interpretation of the 16 government intelligence agencies.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?

    There was no intel with formal proof of wmds. Just Powell and his ridiculous powerpoint presentation in the UN.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?


    i believe the report because its a report that Bush doesnt benefit from...and its obvious by his child-like behavior since the report.

    why do you side with this administration and not the people?

    virtual traitor :)

    better start practicing that right to bear arms amendment :) or learn how to kiss ass when the shit goes down and you got a bush sticker on your face
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because the intelligence community never claimed that Iraq was a threat to the security of the western world and that it possessed weapons of mass destruction. This was the claim made by politicians after they doctored the intelligence and exaggerated any threat.
    Remember Collin Powell at the U.N holding up pictures of trucks and claiming that they may be used to transport W.M.D's? And how he then held up some satellite pictures of some warehouses or factory buildings and claimed that these may be used to build W.M.D's? What a joke that was!
    Has everyone here forgotten the 'Secret downing street memo' which made it clear that the politicians knew perfectly well Iraq posed no threat in 2003?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article387374.ece
    ...
    Okay... I get it... so, it's the Intelligence Agencies who are correct... and the politicians that see what they want to see who are wrong.
    Well, I convinced. Now, I hope all of the other idiots that believe politicians instead of Intelligence agencies and their agents follow suit.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • malabogiamalabogia Posts: 59
    I also believe that the report is genuine but the question is why the Bush administration let it leaked or declared to the media? This certainly destroy all their efforts and their credibility. maybe someone in the agency is really pissed of Bush :D
    But maybe it is just a small part of the big picture that is being prepared by the same people who claimed that Iranians were making the bomb.
    Yeah I watched "Zeitgeist", so what? :D
    "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    malabogia wrote:
    I also believe that the report is genuine but the question is why the Bush administration let it leaked or declared to the media? This certainly destroy all their efforts and their credibility. maybe someone in the agency is really pissed of Bush :D
    But maybe it is just a small part of the big picture that is being prepared by the same people who claimed that Iranians were making the bomb.
    Yeah I watched "Zeitgeist", so what? :D

    Well my only thaught is that something this big and important is hard to keep under wraps.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?

    Who really believes it? All I get from it is an open invitation to smear some facts ala Iraq and say "our intel was off" and people like you still won't volunteer to keep America beautiful and your troops won't ever come home. Alive and well that is. US soldiers are going to take over the higher percentage of illegal immigrants coming to Canada by the year 2011
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    malabogia wrote:
    I also believe that the report is genuine but the question is why the Bush administration let it leaked or declared to the media? This certainly destroy all their efforts and their credibility. maybe someone in the agency is really pissed of Bush :D
    But maybe it is just a small part of the big picture that is being prepared by the same people who claimed that Iranians were making the bomb.
    Yeah I watched "Zeitgeist", so what? :D

    yep, pay attention to who wrote it...also it's just a judgement...the facts to support it are in the part we won't see


    by the way, y'all are crazy if you think iran isn't pursuing nukes.

    if they haven't bought one already from the russians



    http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/12/nie_an_abrupt_aboutface.asp
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    810wmb wrote:
    yep, pay attention to who wrote it...also it's just a judgement...the facts to support it are in the part we won't see


    by the way, y'all are crazy if you think iran isn't pursuing nukes.

    if they haven't bought one already from the russians
    ...
    Wanting and possessing are two completely different things... I want a 1962 Ferrarri 250 GTO but, my possessing one is going to take quite a lot of resources... resources currently not available to me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Wanting and possessing are two completely different things... I want a 1962 Ferrarri 250 GTO but, my possessing one is going to take quite a lot of resources... resources currently not available to me.

    no shit really? thank you!

    any other insights?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    810wmb wrote:
    no shit really? thank you!

    any other insights?
    ...
    You're welcome.
    I could tell, you need further clarification on such matters.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    we believe for the simple reason that it proves our belief. it's just the way it is, we look for things that we find suit our beliefs. it is easier than saying sure this intel is wrong, as in the past it was wrong.

    it is for this reason that the world is so fucked up.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    Thecure wrote:
    we believe for the simple reason that it proves our belief. it's just the way it is, we look for things that we find suit our beliefs. it is easier than saying sure this intel is wrong, as in the past it was wrong.

    it is for this reason that the world is so fucked up.

    i thank you!
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Thecure wrote:
    we believe for the simple reason that it proves our belief. it's just the way it is, we look for things that we find suit our beliefs. it is easier than saying sure this intel is wrong, as in the past it was wrong.

    it is for this reason that the world is so fucked up.
    Very true.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Thecure wrote:
    we believe for the simple reason that it proves our belief. it's just the way it is, we look for things that we find suit our beliefs. it is easier than saying sure this intel is wrong, as in the past it was wrong.

    it is for this reason that the world is so fucked up.
    ...
    Isn't this the definition for 'Truthiness'? Where Truthiness is defined as things that a person claims to know intuitively or "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination or facts.
    ...
    For example; Our little friend here wants so much to go to war with Iran... that he believes they have nukes... regardless of what silly Intelligence Reports state. Facts... those are only for people who think with their heads... as opposed to those who know with their hearts. Think... or know. I think that fire will burn my hand vs. I KNOW that fire will burn my hand. I think.. vs. ... I KNOW.
    ...
    Think about it... no... know about it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay... I get it... so, it's the Intelligence Agencies who are correct... and the politicians that see what they want to see who are wrong.
    Well, I convinced. Now, I hope all of the other idiots that believe politicians instead of Intelligence agencies and their agents follow suit.

    Again, read the downing street memo.
    Look into what really happened during the build up to the Iraq war. There are countless other documents available, and confessions made by insiders, which make it clear that the intelligence was being made to fit the agenda.
    Pretty simple really.
    And as far as the Hatton report, and the inquiry into the Dr David Kelly incident, everyone knows that the non-independent inquiry was a whitewash from the word go. Blair should have been kicked out office in 2004.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    810wmb wrote:
    aren't these the same guys y'all have been yelling about from the start of the war???

    why do you believe them now, if they were so fucking wrong before?


    let's role play. it's sept 1, 2001. you know the people that have been attacking us for 10 years; including a direct bombing of the uss cole; are going to attack the homeland. someone said they may use planes. and the attack may be in NYC; washington; chicago; or LA.
    what would you do to protect the american public from a 9-11 type event?
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    onelongsong wrote:
    let's role play. it's sept 1, 2001. you know the people that have been attacking us for 10 years; including a direct bombing of the uss cole; are going to attack the homeland. someone said they may use planes. and the attack may be in NYC; washington; chicago; or LA.
    what would you do to protect the american public from a 9-11 type event?

    bomb 'em first? :)
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    bomb 'em first? :)

    Well let's pose the same question you did, why believe the intel. It has been wrong before.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    mammasan wrote:
    Well let's pose the same question you did, why believe the intel. It has been wrong before.

    i don't believe it - check out the link - written by the same dude that 4 months ago said they were pursuing nukes.

    besides google stuff - there are a ton of reports of them trying to buy nukes, the materials, etc - written in left leaning newspapers.

    not to mention the ahab the arab running his mouth every other day
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    i don't believe it - check out the link - written by the same dude that 4 months ago said they were pursuing nukes.

    besides google stuff - there are a ton of reports of them trying to buy nukes, the materials, etc - written in left leaning newspapers.

    not to mention the ahab the arab running his mouth every other day

    I have read plenty of reports and yes at one point Iran was trying to pursue a nuclear weapons program. That was years ago though and even the IEAE has stated that there is no evidence of a nuclear weapons program. The only problem is that Iran is not being 100% cooperative but up to this point all the proof points to them not having and no longer pursuing a nuclear weapons program. Now this doesn't mean that we can call it a day. We should still be vigilant and the IEAE should continue to push Iran for 100% transperancy and cooperation.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • 810wmb810wmb Posts: 849
    mammasan wrote:
    The only problem is that Iran is not being 100% cooperative but up to this point all the proof points to them not having and no longer pursuing a nuclear weapons program. Now this doesn't mean that we can call it a day. We should still be vigilant and the IEAE should continue to push Iran for 100% transperancy and cooperation.

    agreed.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    hermmm.


    "On Monday, December 3, 2007, a report from Bush's own government said quite clearly that its intelligence proved that Iran halted nuclear arms work four years ago."

    I am trying to find this report. Considering Bush is ignoring it, along with Israel, it is probably important.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I think Ahmadinejad (obviously) knows and was just making the crow eating session that much sweeter....shining some sunlight on the vampires so to speak.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • YoyoyoYoyoyo Posts: 310
    charged up on impeachment...

    http://www.innerlightdesign.com/yourvoice/impeach.html
    No need to be void, or save up on life

    You got to spend it all
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