And a plam like Obama's is a GREAT IDEA? These assholes in Govt fuck just about everything up and you want some idiot like Barney Frank determing whether or not you get coverage. I like my current HMO it works well for me and my family. We have turned into a country of a bunch of cry baby's. Look at the whole financial mess we are in. But I am sure evryone on this board plans Bush and the repub's anyways. B/C the Dems never do anything wrong.
Umm... no on is saying that legislators will determine whether or not you get coverage. If you are more comfortable with an insurance company who's main goal is for a profit and not health care, then stick with yours. You like your current HMO? Great... then keep it. No one is forcing you to change
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
John McCain Will Reform The Tax Code To Offer More Choices Beyond Employer-Based Health Insurance Coverage. While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider. Those obtaining innovative insurance that costs less than the credit can deposit the remainder in expanded Health Savings Accounts.
Will someone please explain to me how a tax credit will help those making such little money that they don't pay income tax? I'm no tax expert, but I thought a tax credit was a decrease in the amount of taxes you paid. So will poor people not get their $2,500, or am I confused?
Also, is this meant to cover only your portion of the premiums while your employer still pays their share? (In which case, you'd still lose your healthcare if you lost your job, right?) Or does this need to cover your portion AND your employer's portion? (i.e., is this meant to help those who don't have insurance through their employer?)
Also, what's to keep insurance companies from jacking up thier prices?
I went to a lecture on National Health Insurance recently. It was given by Oliver Fein, MD, who is a physicians & professor at Cornell, the VP of the American Public Health Association, and the President-Elect of Physicians for a National Health Program. Here are just a few of the things I learned:
- This is NOT socialized medicine. It is public funding for private delivery of services.
- We’re already spending more PUBLIC money per capita for healthcare than any other country. The U.S. spends enough on healthcare – over $7000 per person in 2006 – to provide care for all. So essentially we’re paying for national health insurance but we’re not getting it.
- More than ½ of personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses, but over 75% of these people had health insurance when they got sick.
- 42% of employees have no choice in who their insurer is. 74% change plans involuntarily. Under the current system, you are limited in which doctors/hostpitals you can go to. Under the proposed system, however, you could go to any doctor or hospital you choose. The market does not increase choice.
- Private insurance overhead is 16-30%. Medicare overhead is 2-3%. Since 1970 (before we had the current for-profit market-based system), the number of doctors has increased by 100% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%.
- Over 45 million Americans are uninsured, but tens of millions more are under-insured, lacking sufficient coverage for vital care and medications. More than 18,000 adults die annually from lack of coverage.
Attitudes like yours are the reason no progress gets made on critical issues like this. You sound like a McCain-Palin talking point. It's not that the Dems can do no wrong, but when its obvious how Repubs are fucking up the country (they are the ones who have been in charge for the last 8 years of glory) people like you still defend them to the death and run down anyone who at least wants to try and make things better. It is obvious to any non-biased observer that our health care system is broken. McCains answer is to further fuck over the average American in favor of the insurance companies. This is the problem. If wanting a health care system at least as good as Cuba's makes me a cry baby then so be it. Your attitude makes me sick.
You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.
Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.
You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.
Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.
man, look who is evoking celebrity views and deflecting form the issue at hand ... THAT is typical republican tactic ...
Look around this board ... can you find one of the left leaners DEFENDING the Dem's and their hand in this financial mess?
Anyway ... back to healthcare ... here is Obama's plan ... it is NOT putting the government in charge ... it attacking health insurance, and the drug companies ... which, is where most people would say the issues reside.
On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes - government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference.
The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.
Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.
If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.
Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses - Not Just Insurance and Drug Companies.
Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.
Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.
Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.
Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.
Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.
Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.
Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.
Reduce Costs and Save a Typical American Family up to $2,500 as reforms phase in:
Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market
Require hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees.
Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care.
The Obama-Biden plan will promote public health. It will require coverage of preventive services, including cancer screenings, and increase state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.
(oh, if your handle is a reference to Tedy Bruschi, you're doing him a disservice)
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.
Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.
I've got more than a word for ya.
You still haven't seemed to grasp the concept that the gov't will not be running your health care. They will be paying for it. Big difference. I think that both sides can agree that the one thing the gov't knows how to do is spend money. If you like your health care, you can keep it. I don't see why you would be opposed to trying to expand health care to everyone. Say what you will about "the Michael Moore view" , it doesn't change the fact that the "greatest country in the world" (as you Neo-Cons love to point out) is decades behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to taking care of the health of its citizens. This shouldn't be a democratic or republican issue. This is a human issue. The nightmare scenarios you bring up are happening right now because of the insurance companies. How is this any better?
I will criticize members of either party. I happen to be disgusted that Obama supported this atrocity of a bailout. I think its sad that we are forced to vote for the lessor of two evils in this country if we want our votes to count.
I completely understand how there is blame to go around in the financial crisis. It is not an entirely partisan issue. That does not mean I wish to put my support behind a candidate who will exacerbate the problem by continuing to spend billions on an unnecessary war, and by giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, and continuing to shrink the once great middle class of this country.
While we're at it, thanks for changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Thats right, everyone is pissed off he sent troops to Iraq because THEY WERE NOT THE COUNTRY THAT ATTACKED US. Read that again in case it didn't sink in. God forbid Obama or Biden advocate actually going after those that did attack us in Afghanistan (and now hiding in Pakistan as well). Speaking of Darfur, if trying to stop genocide (you know, like the Holocaust) is a waste of our military force then I fail to come up with any scenario in which force would be justified. Or maybe you think we just shouldn't care because they don't have oil there?
Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cry all you want about the "scum-bag dems" and all of their problems, and how we crack you up with our good intentions. You wish to continue to support those who have greed as their primary intention. Good for you. So, go on and do the "patriotic" thing by voting for McCain in November. Just remember there were those of us 8 years ago saying the same things about Bush, and what a disaster his presidency would be. It's a good thing he proved us wrong. His presidency has been a much bigger disaster than any of us could have possibly imagined. So much now that you, who have voted for him 2x, don't support him. Let's hope that in another 4 or 8 years we're not looking back at this election the same way.
My husband's employer covers 75% of our Medical Insurance.
We pay $3588 a year ($138 biweekly) meaning the the actual premium is a little over $14,000 ..... $14,000!!!!!!!!! :eek:
This is coverage for 2 adults in their 30's and 3 children under the age of 10, and we might be expecting one more (haven't found out yet) but if the test confirms we are adding one more please tell me where exactly do I find coverage for 2 adults and 4 children for $5,000 ????!!!!
What on earth can my family do with $5,000 credit to get my own insurance...
Senator McCain give me a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
You still haven't seemed to grasp the concept that the gov't will not be running your health care. They will be paying for it. Big difference. I think that both sides can agree that the one thing the gov't knows how to do is spend money. If you like your health care, you can keep it. I don't see why you would be opposed to trying to expand health care to everyone. Say what you will about "the Michael Moore view" , it doesn't change the fact that the "greatest country in the world" (as you Neo-Cons love to point out) is decades behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to taking care of the health of its citizens. This shouldn't be a democratic or republican issue. This is a human issue. The nightmare scenarios you bring up are happening right now because of the insurance companies. How is this any better?
I will criticize members of either party. I happen to be disgusted that Obama supported this atrocity of a bailout. I think its sad that we are forced to vote for the lessor of two evils in this country if we want our votes to count.
I completely understand how there is blame to go around in the financial crisis. It is not an entirely partisan issue. That does not mean I wish to put my support behind a candidate who will exacerbate the problem by continuing to spend billions on an unnecessary war, and by giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, and continuing to shrink the once great middle class of this country.
While we're at it, thanks for changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Thats right, everyone is pissed off he sent troops to Iraq because THEY WERE NOT THE COUNTRY THAT ATTACKED US. Read that again in case it didn't sink in. God forbid Obama or Biden advocate actually going after those that did attack us in Afghanistan (and now hiding in Pakistan as well). Speaking of Darfur, if trying to stop genocide (you know, like the Holocaust) is a waste of our military force then I fail to come up with any scenario in which force would be justified. Or maybe you think we just shouldn't care because they don't have oil there?
Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cry all you want about the "scum-bag dems" and all of their problems, and how we crack you up with our good intentions. You wish to continue to support those who have greed as their primary intention. Good for you. So, go on and do the "patriotic" thing by voting for McCain in November. Just remember there were those of us 8 years ago saying the same things about Bush, and what a disaster his presidency would be. It's a good thing he proved us wrong. His presidency has been a much bigger disaster than any of us could have possibly imagined. So much now that you, who have voted for him 2x, don't support him. Let's hope that in another 4 or 8 years we're not looking back at this election the same way.
My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.
There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.
I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
You really need to do some research on universal health care before you open you mouth.
I live in Canada where we have universal health care. We can go to ANY DOCTOR WE WANT...we can go to ANY HOSPITAL WE WANT.
Universal healthcare is about ensuring that ANYONE can get the best possible care at ANY hospital or doctor regardless of their income. The doctors and hospitals bill our heathcare system and the Government sends them the money. This prevents doctors from charging highway robbery for their services and hospitals from gauging people to fatten the wallets of their administrators and/or boardmembers.
Thank you Mel for pointing this out.
A lot of people like to whine and complain and about how they dont the Government running their healthcare yet they have not the slightest clue as to how it works though they feel they can attack the idea.
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.
There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.
I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
People like you are so weak-minded all you need is brainless Senator Palin quoting and misinterpreting the NY times article to start hammering on the Ayers connection, read your papers my friend, go to Google news and read some articles.. INFORM YOURSELF!!! Don't just repeat what you hear...
and answer me one thing since you think that Senator Obama's plan is so fucked up and Senator McCain so brilliant, please tell me what my family of 5 and possible 6 as of next year, what will we do with $5,000 credit to get health insurance if my husband's employer dropped medical insurance... please tell me because I'd like to know.
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.
There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.
I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
Do you work for Sean Hannity, or just Tivo all his shows?
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
If my car insurance can cover me for a million dollars for $1200 a year, why can't health insurance companies deliver?
Something just isn't adding up...apparently cars have far better comprehensive coverage than their human owners do for a fraction of the price.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.
There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.
I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
Obviously you didn't read my post if you think I blindly support the Dems. There is greed and corruption on both sides.
That being said, a war for oil isn't about lower prices for everyone. It is about controlling and influencing the countries where it is produced not for our country's advantage, but for our corporations advantage. High oil prices are great for oil guys like Bush and Cheney because oil companies make more money. That means their friends, family, advisors, and once they get out of office, themsleves. McCain is beholden to oil lobbyists, and Palin's husband works for an oil company.
This Ayers- Wright- whoever bullshit is Fox News fodder to scare people out of voting for Obama, because McCain is slipping.
Also, what did we go into Iraq for? To stop the gassing of Kurd's? Give me a fucking break. The rationale for this war has been changed and manipulated how many times? Thats what I thought.
I see that your content to keep giving the thieves the keys to the store and then bitching that no one else stopped them. Fine. Politics is a corrupt game. That is a given. That is no excuse to continue to bash only one side while complaining that the other side does the same thing.
My family is insured through my husband's employer and it costs $700 a month. We have a $20 copay for our PCP and specialists, and $100 for ER visits. And our prescription plan sucks; we pay 50%.
My family spends about $600/year on health care. Granted, we are a very healthy bunch. Out of the 5 of us, we probably only have 4 visits to the dr. a year and that includes my yearly pap smear.
If McCain's plan would just give us the $5k, and not give it to the insurance companies, then I think we would be headed in the right direction.
If each of us took the $2500 or $5000 and put it into our own personal health savings account and cut out the insurance companies, we would all be in pretty good shape.
We can play this fucking game all day. Do you work for Keith Olberman?
ha ha ... look at the sources I site in this thread ... both Barack Obama's and John McCain's web sites ... indeed, I read, I do research, I come up with an ORIGINAL thought.
You? You are reciting Hannity's talking points pretty much verbatim. And are still trying to deflect away from the topic of the thread, healthcare ...
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
1. Lawsuits that give the victims millions of dollars: This drives up the price of everybody's healthcare. The doctors have to pay a higher insurance premium and they get that money from us. I'm not saying that the guy who got the wrong leg amputated doesn't deserve some money for his pain & suffering, but does he need $25 million?!
2. Our hospitals are going broke because.... we will not turn anyone away: Illegal immigrants use our facilities and don't pay for any of the care they receive. So, once again, those of us who actually pay for medical services have to pay more to cover the cost of those who don't pay.
Will McCain's or Obama's healthcare plan address any of these issues?
1. Lawsuits that give the victims millions of dollars: This drives up the price of everybody's healthcare. The doctors have to pay a higher insurance premium and they get that money from us. I'm not saying that the guy who got the wrong leg amputated doesn't deserve some money for his pain & suffering, but does he need $25 million?!
2. Our hospitals are going broke because.... we will not turn anyone away: Illegal immigrants use our facilities and don't pay for any of the care they receive. So, once again, those of us who actually pay for medical services have to pay more to cover the cost of those who don't pay.
Will McCain's or Obama's healthcare plan address any of these issues?
McCain's immigration bill would address #2... you know the one he said he would veto if it came across his desk when he was president.
All the rusted signs, we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead...
And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
McCain's immigration bill would address #2... you know the one he said he would veto if it came across his desk when he was president.
So we should give illegal imagrants a free ride and to hell with the ones who wait in line?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Will someone please explain to me how a tax credit will help those making such little money that they don't pay income tax? I'm no tax expert, but I thought a tax credit was a decrease in the amount of taxes you paid. So will poor people not get their $2,500, or am I confused?
Also, is this meant to cover only your portion of the premiums while your employer still pays their share? (In which case, you'd still lose your healthcare if you lost your job, right?) Or does this need to cover your portion AND your employer's portion? (i.e., is this meant to help those who don't have insurance through their employer?)
Also, what's to keep insurance companies from jacking up thier prices?
Comments
Umm... no on is saying that legislators will determine whether or not you get coverage. If you are more comfortable with an insurance company who's main goal is for a profit and not health care, then stick with yours. You like your current HMO? Great... then keep it. No one is forcing you to change
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Will someone please explain to me how a tax credit will help those making such little money that they don't pay income tax? I'm no tax expert, but I thought a tax credit was a decrease in the amount of taxes you paid. So will poor people not get their $2,500, or am I confused?
Also, is this meant to cover only your portion of the premiums while your employer still pays their share? (In which case, you'd still lose your healthcare if you lost your job, right?) Or does this need to cover your portion AND your employer's portion? (i.e., is this meant to help those who don't have insurance through their employer?)
Also, what's to keep insurance companies from jacking up thier prices?
social health care for all
- This is NOT socialized medicine. It is public funding for private delivery of services.
- We’re already spending more PUBLIC money per capita for healthcare than any other country. The U.S. spends enough on healthcare – over $7000 per person in 2006 – to provide care for all. So essentially we’re paying for national health insurance but we’re not getting it.
- More than ½ of personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses, but over 75% of these people had health insurance when they got sick.
- 42% of employees have no choice in who their insurer is. 74% change plans involuntarily. Under the current system, you are limited in which doctors/hostpitals you can go to. Under the proposed system, however, you could go to any doctor or hospital you choose. The market does not increase choice.
- Private insurance overhead is 16-30%. Medicare overhead is 2-3%. Since 1970 (before we had the current for-profit market-based system), the number of doctors has increased by 100% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%.
- Over 45 million Americans are uninsured, but tens of millions more are under-insured, lacking sufficient coverage for vital care and medications. More than 18,000 adults die annually from lack of coverage.
Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.
man, look who is evoking celebrity views and deflecting form the issue at hand ... THAT is typical republican tactic ...
Look around this board ... can you find one of the left leaners DEFENDING the Dem's and their hand in this financial mess?
Anyway ... back to healthcare ... here is Obama's plan ... it is NOT putting the government in charge ... it attacking health insurance, and the drug companies ... which, is where most people would say the issues reside.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan
On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes - government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference.
The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.
Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.
If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.
Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses - Not Just Insurance and Drug Companies.
Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.
Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.
Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.
Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.
Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.
Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.
Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.
Reduce Costs and Save a Typical American Family up to $2,500 as reforms phase in:
Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market
Require hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees.
Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care.
The Obama-Biden plan will promote public health. It will require coverage of preventive services, including cancer screenings, and increase state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.
(oh, if your handle is a reference to Tedy Bruschi, you're doing him a disservice)
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I've got more than a word for ya.
You still haven't seemed to grasp the concept that the gov't will not be running your health care. They will be paying for it. Big difference. I think that both sides can agree that the one thing the gov't knows how to do is spend money. If you like your health care, you can keep it. I don't see why you would be opposed to trying to expand health care to everyone. Say what you will about "the Michael Moore view" , it doesn't change the fact that the "greatest country in the world" (as you Neo-Cons love to point out) is decades behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to taking care of the health of its citizens. This shouldn't be a democratic or republican issue. This is a human issue. The nightmare scenarios you bring up are happening right now because of the insurance companies. How is this any better?
I will criticize members of either party. I happen to be disgusted that Obama supported this atrocity of a bailout. I think its sad that we are forced to vote for the lessor of two evils in this country if we want our votes to count.
I completely understand how there is blame to go around in the financial crisis. It is not an entirely partisan issue. That does not mean I wish to put my support behind a candidate who will exacerbate the problem by continuing to spend billions on an unnecessary war, and by giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, and continuing to shrink the once great middle class of this country.
While we're at it, thanks for changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Thats right, everyone is pissed off he sent troops to Iraq because THEY WERE NOT THE COUNTRY THAT ATTACKED US. Read that again in case it didn't sink in. God forbid Obama or Biden advocate actually going after those that did attack us in Afghanistan (and now hiding in Pakistan as well). Speaking of Darfur, if trying to stop genocide (you know, like the Holocaust) is a waste of our military force then I fail to come up with any scenario in which force would be justified. Or maybe you think we just shouldn't care because they don't have oil there?
Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cry all you want about the "scum-bag dems" and all of their problems, and how we crack you up with our good intentions. You wish to continue to support those who have greed as their primary intention. Good for you. So, go on and do the "patriotic" thing by voting for McCain in November. Just remember there were those of us 8 years ago saying the same things about Bush, and what a disaster his presidency would be. It's a good thing he proved us wrong. His presidency has been a much bigger disaster than any of us could have possibly imagined. So much now that you, who have voted for him 2x, don't support him. Let's hope that in another 4 or 8 years we're not looking back at this election the same way.
My husband's employer covers 75% of our Medical Insurance.
We pay $3588 a year ($138 biweekly) meaning the the actual premium is a little over $14,000 ..... $14,000!!!!!!!!! :eek:
This is coverage for 2 adults in their 30's and 3 children under the age of 10, and we might be expecting one more (haven't found out yet) but if the test confirms we are adding one more please tell me where exactly do I find coverage for 2 adults and 4 children for $5,000 ????!!!!
What on earth can my family do with $5,000 credit to get my own insurance...
Senator McCain give me a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.
There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.
I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
Thank you Mel for pointing this out.
A lot of people like to whine and complain and about how they dont the Government running their healthcare yet they have not the slightest clue as to how it works though they feel they can attack the idea.
People like you are so weak-minded all you need is brainless Senator Palin quoting and misinterpreting the NY times article to start hammering on the Ayers connection, read your papers my friend, go to Google news and read some articles.. INFORM YOURSELF!!! Don't just repeat what you hear...
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h2TC1ztefVzOiXeCNcmY7lIelBNwD93K34700
and answer me one thing since you think that Senator Obama's plan is so fucked up and Senator McCain so brilliant, please tell me what my family of 5 and possible 6 as of next year, what will we do with $5,000 credit to get health insurance if my husband's employer dropped medical insurance... please tell me because I'd like to know.
Do you work for Sean Hannity, or just Tivo all his shows?
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Something just isn't adding up...apparently cars have far better comprehensive coverage than their human owners do for a fraction of the price.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Obviously you didn't read my post if you think I blindly support the Dems. There is greed and corruption on both sides.
That being said, a war for oil isn't about lower prices for everyone. It is about controlling and influencing the countries where it is produced not for our country's advantage, but for our corporations advantage. High oil prices are great for oil guys like Bush and Cheney because oil companies make more money. That means their friends, family, advisors, and once they get out of office, themsleves. McCain is beholden to oil lobbyists, and Palin's husband works for an oil company.
This Ayers- Wright- whoever bullshit is Fox News fodder to scare people out of voting for Obama, because McCain is slipping.
Also, what did we go into Iraq for? To stop the gassing of Kurd's? Give me a fucking break. The rationale for this war has been changed and manipulated how many times? Thats what I thought.
I see that your content to keep giving the thieves the keys to the store and then bitching that no one else stopped them. Fine. Politics is a corrupt game. That is a given. That is no excuse to continue to bash only one side while complaining that the other side does the same thing.
My family spends about $600/year on health care. Granted, we are a very healthy bunch. Out of the 5 of us, we probably only have 4 visits to the dr. a year and that includes my yearly pap smear.
If McCain's plan would just give us the $5k, and not give it to the insurance companies, then I think we would be headed in the right direction.
If each of us took the $2500 or $5000 and put it into our own personal health savings account and cut out the insurance companies, we would all be in pretty good shape.
ha ha ... look at the sources I site in this thread ... both Barack Obama's and John McCain's web sites ... indeed, I read, I do research, I come up with an ORIGINAL thought.
You? You are reciting Hannity's talking points pretty much verbatim. And are still trying to deflect away from the topic of the thread, healthcare ...
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
2. Our hospitals are going broke because.... we will not turn anyone away: Illegal immigrants use our facilities and don't pay for any of the care they receive. So, once again, those of us who actually pay for medical services have to pay more to cover the cost of those who don't pay.
Will McCain's or Obama's healthcare plan address any of these issues?
McCain's immigration bill would address #2... you know the one he said he would veto if it came across his desk when he was president.
And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
So we should give illegal imagrants a free ride and to hell with the ones who wait in line?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Anyone???