A Python's Take on Iranians being an uncivilised bunch
bonaneas
Posts: 19
I'm not exactly a huge fan of the guardian and its ten per cent leftist criticism the rest right in step with the new labour corporate spin line, but Terry Jones always brings a smile to my face, and being a now ex-serviceman, I can honestly say id rather be a western grunt taken by the Iranians, than a muslim taken by the west.
Oh and yeah, long time lurker, first time poster. I would have posted my first one in the 'best tag from the 98 tour' or signed a '***!!!***Official bring back the 95 towels***!!!***' petition, but I thought nah, keep my powder dry for when i find something worthwhile saying!
======================
Call that humiliation?
No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch
By Terry Jones
03/31/07 "The Guardian" -- -- I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.
It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.
And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.
The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!
What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.
And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".
What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.
As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.
· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python - http://www.terry-jones.net
© Guardian News and Media Limited 2007
Oh and yeah, long time lurker, first time poster. I would have posted my first one in the 'best tag from the 98 tour' or signed a '***!!!***Official bring back the 95 towels***!!!***' petition, but I thought nah, keep my powder dry for when i find something worthwhile saying!
======================
Call that humiliation?
No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch
By Terry Jones
03/31/07 "The Guardian" -- -- I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.
It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.
And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.
The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!
What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.
And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".
What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.
As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.
· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python - http://www.terry-jones.net
© Guardian News and Media Limited 2007
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
Real socialists don't support nuclear proliferation. I say this because of an argument I just had with someone here on campus who purports to be a socialist (he thinks Iran getting nukes is "healthy"). Not directly relevent to the thread, I know ... Just really annoying how ignorant so-called progressives can be, and this thread seems like as good a place as any to vent.
No one is justifying Abu Grahib as quality treatment...and maybe the Brits are being treated well...but please...let's be honest enough with ourselves to admit that both sides are capable of torture and horrible treatment.
If anything, all these pictures prove is that the Iranians aren't dumb enough to photograph their abuse. Or maybe they have, and THOSE pics will leak out in 3-6 months...who knows...
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
Perhaps Iran is smart enough not to take pictures of abuse. Or perhaps they're even smarter than that and decided not to torture the soldiers at all. We set the bar very low. All Iran has to do is step above it and they've won the PR war. Which is sad. That used to be such an easy victory for us.
this article has nothing to do with kissing iranian butt ... it's all about the rhetoric that has been published all over the place in every media outlet in existence ... the PR ramp up for the axis of evil country known as Iran has been in full force for over 18 months now and everyone knows it ...
this article is about what is propaganda and what is reality ... as far as we know - the brits have been treated fine and there are still a bunch of people languishing in guantanamo (which is no howard johnson) ... so, while article after article wants to decry the hard liners in Iran for this and for that ... why don't we look at how we are REALLY acting and maybe not take such a moralistic high ground ...
yes ... real progressives are against all forms of nuclear proliferation and i in no way support iran having nukes however, it's not like anyone is giving them up either ...
As far as the 68% of Americans who are fedup with this Administration's methods, it's not about kissing another country's butt, it's about pride, it's about believing in what American represents both at home and aboard. Maybe Weaver's warning about government interference into people's daily lives should have been heeded. Maybe our foreign policy has taken on the tactics of, if not the appearance of a radical regime, where the people's voice is just a prop.
Bush will be gone and Israel will still be located in the Middle East. Bush will be gone and Saudi Arabia will still be located in the Middle East. Iraq, whether we stay or go, will still be a devastated country with no immediate future, no hope of outside commitment towards rebuilding, and an excessively angry, proverty-ridden new generation under a "police" state. Unless, we put Iraq, as a whole, back to work with meaningful work (roads, railways, schools, hospitals, homes, etc.) towards rebuilding itself, at the same time we are rebuilding a military/police force, a division of this country into three parts will only serve to continue the internal conflict and destabilization the region. We could sit down with representatives of the whole neighborhood and rework FDR's New Deal into a main plan of action for Iraq with beneficial outcomes for the whole neighborhood. They may not turn into another Japan or Dubia but at least we could gain breathing room.
With every major f---up, you're seeing world leaders hedging their bets, not kissing butt. Who would have anticipated this headline two years ago.Are they now leftists?
Israel PM calls for talks with Arabs
5:00AM Tuesday April 03, 2007
By Donald Macintyre
JERUSALEM - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert yesterday called for meetings with Arab leaders in what is considered an important breakthrough in the Middle East peace process.
and hailhail has a point ... How do we even know what the Iranians are doing or have done to these prisoners? It seems pretty clear that the sanctity of these sailors' minds has been violated ... The "confessions" are likely coerced. Is this torture? Maybe not, but its hardly ethical.
Ahmadinejad just announced that he will be releasing the 15 British soldiers later today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17944210/
what is so rubbish about it? ... the tone?
this whole war is premised on the fact that we (the west) are the salvation for all those oppressed people over there ... until we realize the utter hypocrisy and bs that is - we will never get anywhere ...
maybe they were tortured ... i'm guessing if they get released that they aren't cuz right now iran has played the PR game quite well and as long as their are prisoners languishing in guantanamo - the west just looks bad ...
Its alright to stop in mid-thought, especially, when the rest of the thought offers no additional insight or substance. I guess I just expected a little more from you.
yes, hail did make a valid point, we don't know what was done to these soldiers. I addressed that point with the fact that at least the Iranians didn't give them a blanket label of "terrorists" and fly them off to another country to be tortured or never to be heard of again.
I'll elaborate for you. These soldiers have the benefit of their country and their families knowing where they are and that they are alive and seemingly in relatively good condition. Given the current conditions with people just disappearing, showing these soldiers on TV was the only acceptable proof, Iran knew this. The bottom line is we are not at war with Iran so these soldiers can be treated and questioned as spies until the matter is resolved. Since Iran went public with these soldiers and as a member of the Geneva Convention, their treatment will be better than those "detainees" in our hands.
Talk about rubbish. The Bush administration actions have placed us in the position where we clearly no longer embody the position to "ethically" question or judge the appropriate treatment of "detainees".