if i had one of each of those voters in front of me and they told me those were the reasons they voted the way they did, i'd be equally disgusted by both. i mean, think about it. they probably don't normally vote to begin with (both examples), but with this election they'll go out to make damn sure the person with the same skin color as them will win. that just pisses me off. doesn't it you?
What the hell are you talking about? Did you have an issue with black voters going out to vote for a white candidate in the past, did that piss you off? Now that there's a black presidential candidate and if those black voters decide to go and vote for Obama regardless of the their reason so be it, it's their fucking choice.
I'm black and I'm not voting for Obama, not ALL blacks are going to automatically vote for Obama because he's black. Many of my friends ask me why I'm not voting for him, I tell them and that usually eases their surprise.
I do feel though he's certain to be our next President, Republicans don't want the presidency this term. They don't want to be the ones to try and clean up this mess.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Let's see there are no racist black people though right? I mean every white person who does not agree with someone of color is a racist. There are assholes in all different walks of life, white, black, brown, yellow, green. ALl over the world.
I think it is black privelage that affirmative actiopn lets people into college and jobs because of there skin color rather then the work they have done, but that is for actions that no one under 30 (probably older) controled.
Affirmative Action doesn't guaranteed anything for anyone, it's just an effort to give the minority applicants a chance in playing field. Don't kid yourself thinking that blacks get free-passes on everything, they don't.
Ask a corporate employer to tally up the employee applicants, and you'll see why affirmative action is necessary. I fully support it, b/c it's giving the odd man out a chance.
I often hear concern and anger from conservative commentators about black men and women voting for Obama due to his skin color. As I said before, this is different for few reasons...
1) As I said before, the majority of the electorate is white, and they will be deciding the election. If there's going to be a race-based voting bloc that decides the election, it will be in that part of the electorate. So for all those acting "ah, racism is racism is racism", you're right, that's true; but only one of these forms of racism looks like it may actually have a chance of deciding this election. That's the one that concerns me.
2) Again, racism is racism is racism. Got it. But, let me understand this...
Black voters = voting for Obama because for the first time there is a chance that an African-American has the chance to be the leader of our country. It is a moment of pride.
Prejudiced white voters = Voting for McCain because, due to their racism, they will not elect a black man into the office of the Presidency.
Yes, racism is wrong and all that, and they're both wrong in this case, but does anyone really consider these cases equally morally reprehensible?
I think you make some very good points.
Some might even argue in support of the theory that racism equals prejudice plus power. So, although it's wrong to be prejudiced and vote against someone based solely on their race, if that voting faction has no significant power within a given system, then their prejudice is largely insignificant - and perhaps therefore inappropriately termed racism.
I also find it interesting that you distinguish between voting against someone because of their race and voting for someone because of their race....
What the hell are you talking about? Did you have an issue with black voters going out to vote for a white candidate in the past, did that piss you off? Now that there's a black presidential candidate and if those black voters decide to go and vote for Obama regardless of the their reason so be it, it's their fucking choice.
I'm black and I'm not voting for Obama, not ALL blacks are going to automatically vote for Obama because he's black. Many of my friends ask me why I'm not voting for him, I tell them and that usually eases their surprise.
I do feel though he's certain to be our next President, Republicans don't want the presidency this term. They don't want to be the ones to try and clean up this mess.
Peace
jesus christ, it amazes me how on a daily basis, people can read things that aren't fucking written in this forum. i don't give a shit what color someone is, if they're voting for someone because of the candidates skin color, it pisses me off. do you understand? hope so, because i don't know how to make it any clearer.
OK, let's imagine that Obama had an unwed pregnant teen age daughter...and the teen father bragged of beating the shit out of people...or if he had divorced his first wife after she had a disfiguring car accident and after he had cheated on her with a young rich blonde...or had been implicated in the savings and loan scandal...or if his wife refused to comply with a subpoena to testify...of if he didn't know what the Bush doctrine was...hmmm...I dunno, seems like a double standard to me.
Black voters = voting for Obama because for the first time there is a chance that an African-American has the chance to be the leader of our country. It is a moment of pride.
Prejudiced white voters = Voting for McCain because, due to their racism, they will not elect a black man into the office of the Presidency.
Yes, racism is wrong and all that, and they're both wrong in this case, but does anyone really consider these cases equally morally reprehensible?
Yes. If the only reason they vote for Obama is the colour of his skin, it's just as bad.
You vote for the candidate your agree with the most. At least that's how it should be, imo. But people seem to have abandoned that notion; they vote for the lesser of two evils, or the candidate they'd like to share a drink with the most, or someone they can watch football with :rolleyes:
If you vote for Obama soley because he's black, you might as well vote for McCain because he looks like he's a good barbeque chef.
Yes, it's a historical moment, a very meaningful moment. But let's not forgot it's the presidential race of the most powerful nation in the world. How is it evn morally defensible to vote for someone based soley on looks when this person will have to stipulate the course your country will take?
There are important things at stake here. Perhaps these people should swallow their pride and use their minds.
Bill Maher said something funny recently (I'm paraphrasing)...
If Barack Obama were a white guy named Barry O'Sullivan, he would be owning this presidential race.
Actually that is a really dumb comment. If he were named Barry O'Sullivan with less than 3 years Seante expereince (2 of which he has been running for president) he wouldn't even be in the race. It is really funny that in states he should be running away with the polls are close PA, WI, MN, MI to name a few. If Hillary was the candidate this wouldn't even be a close race. Obama is not a very good candidate. It is funny to watch as the Dems are going to fuck up another election they should have had no problem winning.
"Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.
The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points."
Yes. If the only reason they vote for Obama is the colour of his skin, it's just as bad.
You vote for the candidate your agree with the most. At least that's how it should be, imo. But people seem to have abandoned that notion; they vote for the lesser of two evils, or the candidate they'd like to share a drink with the most, or someone they can watch football with :rolleyes:
If you vote for Obama soley because he's black, you might as well vote for McCain because he looks like he's a good barbeque chef.
Yes, it's a historical moment, a very meaningful moment. But let's not forgot it's the presidential race of the most powerful nation in the world. How is it evn morally defensible to vote for someone based soley on looks when this person will have to stipulate the course your country will take?
There are important things at stake here. Perhaps these people should swallow their pride and use their minds.
I'm not defending people who vote based solely on race. But I think it's important to note that race is more than just looks. Race dictates one's experience as well. Obama, simply because of his looks (and regardless of the fact that he's only half black), has had a different life experience than the status quo white experience. We all know what it's like to have a country led by a person who's had the life experience of a white person since this is all we've ever had. Perhaps some people feel like it's time to find out how a person with a different viewpoint would handle things. Perhaps they hope that a person with a different experience/viewpoint would be more likely to consider the experiences/viewpoints of other "different" people when making policy decisions or dealing with foreign nations.
That's IF a significant number of blacks even get the opportunity to vote in some states. With all the many stipulations in getting a Driver's license to show an ID to vote. Some blacks in inner cities don't drive and therefore face many difficulties in getting a DL.
That article is plain and simple bullshit. how the hell do you go through life with out a photo id? how much effort does it take to go to the dmv, regardless of how far away it is or how much effort it is to obtain something that says who you are and is issued by the state government. if voting is that important to them they will get off their asses and do it. i think that just weeds out the people who are voting for real reasons and people who are voting to make history. when i worked retail and someone didnt have a picture id, i has zero pity for them. and no matter how much of a fit they threw, tough shit. it takes ten bucks and a couple of hours of your time. or least that is what it is in pennsylvania. there is no excuse for laziness or stupidity.
I'm not defending people who vote based solely on race. But I think it's important to note that race is more than just looks. Race dictates one's experience as well. Obama, simply because of his looks (and regardless of the fact that he's only half black), has had a different life experience than the status quo white experience. We all know what it's like to have a country led by a person who's had the life experience of a white person since this is all we've ever had. Perhaps some people feel like it's time to find out how a person with a different viewpoint would handle things. Perhaps they hope that a person with a different experience/viewpoint would be more likely to consider the experiences/viewpoints of other "different" people when making policy decisions or dealing with foreign nations.
I disagree. Yes, race is more than just the colour of skin... But individual experiences are different. It's stupid to think a person of the same race will have the same views, perspective etc. Or that they'll have a different mentality than Bush or McCain.
Two black people can have completely different experiences. For example, they both might have been the victim of racism. One of them might do everything to stop racism, while the other might become a racist himself.
So they're basing their vote on hope. Hope that this person will be different because he looks different.
Who says McCain won't have new and fresh approaches? He's white but surely that doesn't mean he must be the same as all other white politicians before him? Or do all white people have the same experience and thus the same approach to policy making? I think not, in fact, one might call that racist. But there is a good way to find out where McCain stands on issues. It's not by looking at his skin colour, it's by reading what he says he would do and wants to do. The same goes for Obama and any other politician, imo.
If you truly want someone with a different, new approach... you can read what they have to say about the issues that are important.
Just to throw in another statistic on what it's costing Obama to be biracial,
"Racial considerations that have long been palpable in southern Ohio and other crucial regions are again in the foreground. A new poll that accompanied a much buzzed-about Associated Press article on Saturday appears to starkly quantify the cost of racism to Obama: 6 percentage points in the polls."
6 percentage points--A cost McCain doesn't have to bear based on his skin color.
I disagree. Yes, race is more than just the colour of skin... But individual experiences are different. It's stupid to think a person of the same race will have the same views, perspective etc. Or that they'll have a different mentality than Bush or McCain.
Two black people can have completely different experiences. For example, they both might have been the victim of racism. One of them might do everything to stop racism, while the other might become a racist himself.
So they're basing their vote on hope. Hope that this person will be different because he looks different.
Who says McCain won't have new and fresh approaches? He's white but surely that doesn't mean he must be the same as all other white politicians before him? Or do all white people have the same experience and thus the same approach to policy making? I think not, in fact, one might call that racist. But there is a good way to find out where McCain stands on issues. It's not by looking at his skin colour, it's by reading what he says he would do and wants to do. The same goes for Obama and any other politician, imo.
If you truly want someone with a different, new approach... you can read what they have to say about the issues that are important.
How did I know that you were going to disagree? But you've missed my point entirely.
I did not say all black people or all white people have the SAME experience, perspectives, views, etc. (I don't believe that ANY two people, no matter how similar, have the same experiences/perspectives.) What I said is that black people have DIFFERENT experiences than white people.
People of color know what it's like to be the "other" in this country in a way that white people do not. (Which is not to say that white people can't be culturally knowledgable and sensitive, or can't have experienced racism within the context of a smaller system, or can't have been economically disadvantaged, etc.)
This country is and always has been run as a reflection of white people's experience. I'm just saying perhaps some people hope (not know for sure) that electing a person of color will be MORE LIKELY to broaden that reflection. (Certianly they know their vote won't "keep white people down" as the racist votes cast by some white people have done for blacks.) So yes, maybe they're basing their vote partially on hope, but that hope is based on odds. The odds are greater that a black person will have a black person's perspective than that a white person will have a black person's perspective.
Besides, as I said before, I'm not defending people who vote based SOLELY on race. I'm just saying that when race factors in, it's about more than just looks.
There are many reasons why black people and white people alike might welcome a person of color into office, just like they might welcome a woman into office. But that doesn't mean they'll vote for Palin who, policy-wise, is anti-woman. Of course they'll vote for the person's policies above all else. But Obama's policies actually reflect the broader viewpoint to which I'm referring. And I think it's likely that his dealings with other "different" people will too.
Comments
What the hell are you talking about? Did you have an issue with black voters going out to vote for a white candidate in the past, did that piss you off? Now that there's a black presidential candidate and if those black voters decide to go and vote for Obama regardless of the their reason so be it, it's their fucking choice.
I'm black and I'm not voting for Obama, not ALL blacks are going to automatically vote for Obama because he's black. Many of my friends ask me why I'm not voting for him, I tell them and that usually eases their surprise.
I do feel though he's certain to be our next President, Republicans don't want the presidency this term. They don't want to be the ones to try and clean up this mess.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Ask a corporate employer to tally up the employee applicants, and you'll see why affirmative action is necessary. I fully support it, b/c it's giving the odd man out a chance.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I think you make some very good points.
Some might even argue in support of the theory that racism equals prejudice plus power. So, although it's wrong to be prejudiced and vote against someone based solely on their race, if that voting faction has no significant power within a given system, then their prejudice is largely insignificant - and perhaps therefore inappropriately termed racism.
I also find it interesting that you distinguish between voting against someone because of their race and voting for someone because of their race....
jesus christ, it amazes me how on a daily basis, people can read things that aren't fucking written in this forum. i don't give a shit what color someone is, if they're voting for someone because of the candidates skin color, it pisses me off. do you understand? hope so, because i don't know how to make it any clearer.
~D.K.S.
Yes. If the only reason they vote for Obama is the colour of his skin, it's just as bad.
You vote for the candidate your agree with the most. At least that's how it should be, imo. But people seem to have abandoned that notion; they vote for the lesser of two evils, or the candidate they'd like to share a drink with the most, or someone they can watch football with :rolleyes:
If you vote for Obama soley because he's black, you might as well vote for McCain because he looks like he's a good barbeque chef.
Yes, it's a historical moment, a very meaningful moment. But let's not forgot it's the presidential race of the most powerful nation in the world. How is it evn morally defensible to vote for someone based soley on looks when this person will have to stipulate the course your country will take?
There are important things at stake here. Perhaps these people should swallow their pride and use their minds.
naděje umírá poslední
Actually that is a really dumb comment. If he were named Barry O'Sullivan with less than 3 years Seante expereince (2 of which he has been running for president) he wouldn't even be in the race. It is really funny that in states he should be running away with the polls are close PA, WI, MN, MI to name a few. If Hillary was the candidate this wouldn't even be a close race. Obama is not a very good candidate. It is funny to watch as the Dems are going to fuck up another election they should have had no problem winning.
http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-obama-race;_ylt=An234JeoSgLwJxkyXg6V5pis0NUE
"Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.
The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points."
I'm not defending people who vote based solely on race. But I think it's important to note that race is more than just looks. Race dictates one's experience as well. Obama, simply because of his looks (and regardless of the fact that he's only half black), has had a different life experience than the status quo white experience. We all know what it's like to have a country led by a person who's had the life experience of a white person since this is all we've ever had. Perhaps some people feel like it's time to find out how a person with a different viewpoint would handle things. Perhaps they hope that a person with a different experience/viewpoint would be more likely to consider the experiences/viewpoints of other "different" people when making policy decisions or dealing with foreign nations.
That article is plain and simple bullshit. how the hell do you go through life with out a photo id? how much effort does it take to go to the dmv, regardless of how far away it is or how much effort it is to obtain something that says who you are and is issued by the state government. if voting is that important to them they will get off their asses and do it. i think that just weeds out the people who are voting for real reasons and people who are voting to make history. when i worked retail and someone didnt have a picture id, i has zero pity for them. and no matter how much of a fit they threw, tough shit. it takes ten bucks and a couple of hours of your time. or least that is what it is in pennsylvania. there is no excuse for laziness or stupidity.
I disagree. Yes, race is more than just the colour of skin... But individual experiences are different. It's stupid to think a person of the same race will have the same views, perspective etc. Or that they'll have a different mentality than Bush or McCain.
Two black people can have completely different experiences. For example, they both might have been the victim of racism. One of them might do everything to stop racism, while the other might become a racist himself.
So they're basing their vote on hope. Hope that this person will be different because he looks different.
Who says McCain won't have new and fresh approaches? He's white but surely that doesn't mean he must be the same as all other white politicians before him? Or do all white people have the same experience and thus the same approach to policy making? I think not, in fact, one might call that racist. But there is a good way to find out where McCain stands on issues. It's not by looking at his skin colour, it's by reading what he says he would do and wants to do. The same goes for Obama and any other politician, imo.
If you truly want someone with a different, new approach... you can read what they have to say about the issues that are important.
naděje umírá poslední
"Racial considerations that have long been palpable in southern Ohio and other crucial regions are again in the foreground. A new poll that accompanied a much buzzed-about Associated Press article on Saturday appears to starkly quantify the cost of racism to Obama: 6 percentage points in the polls."
6 percentage points--A cost McCain doesn't have to bear based on his skin color.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080921/pl_politico/13686;_ylt=Ar5I9vfCk9sUySowu0V4x2Os0NUE
How did I know that you were going to disagree?
I did not say all black people or all white people have the SAME experience, perspectives, views, etc. (I don't believe that ANY two people, no matter how similar, have the same experiences/perspectives.) What I said is that black people have DIFFERENT experiences than white people.
People of color know what it's like to be the "other" in this country in a way that white people do not. (Which is not to say that white people can't be culturally knowledgable and sensitive, or can't have experienced racism within the context of a smaller system, or can't have been economically disadvantaged, etc.)
This country is and always has been run as a reflection of white people's experience. I'm just saying perhaps some people hope (not know for sure) that electing a person of color will be MORE LIKELY to broaden that reflection. (Certianly they know their vote won't "keep white people down" as the racist votes cast by some white people have done for blacks.) So yes, maybe they're basing their vote partially on hope, but that hope is based on odds. The odds are greater that a black person will have a black person's perspective than that a white person will have a black person's perspective.
Besides, as I said before, I'm not defending people who vote based SOLELY on race. I'm just saying that when race factors in, it's about more than just looks.
There are many reasons why black people and white people alike might welcome a person of color into office, just like they might welcome a woman into office. But that doesn't mean they'll vote for Palin who, policy-wise, is anti-woman. Of course they'll vote for the person's policies above all else. But Obama's policies actually reflect the broader viewpoint to which I'm referring. And I think it's likely that his dealings with other "different" people will too.