Cycling's paceline- a good model for a just society

sweetpotato

Interesting article from Utne.com:

http://www.utne.com/2008-01-04/GreatWriting/Biking-for-a-Better-Tomorrow.aspx

Serious bicyclists are undoubtedly familiar with the concept of a paceline, a group of cyclists riding in a tight, single-file line in order to reduce wind resistance and increase efficiency. Writing for the literary journal Matter (article not available online), Mark Hinterburg elegantly argues that the humble paceline demonstrates keys concepts for a more conscientious society.

The paceline’s first lesson is to share the load. Like a flock of geese flying in V-formation, riders in a paceline take turns riding the front and breaking the wind. Weak or inexperienced riders aren’t expected to spend as much time there (known as a “pull”) as the stronger riders. Hinterburg suggests society should behave in like:

"Society degenerates, and the paceline is broken, when an unreasonable burden is expected from the lesser-abled groups. Are rising drug prices and inadequate insurance a fair way to treat our elderly? Likewise, the paceline loses efficiency when stronger riders take shorter pulls than weaker ones. Is it sensible to cut taxes on the ultra-rich, while the buying power of the middle class continues to decline? "

The paceline also prescribes to a common cyclist credo: the “no-drop” rule. When a flat tire or other problem strikes, one or two riders stay behind with the afflicted cyclist until the issue is resolved. We fail to behave this considerately as citizens, Hinterburg writes, pointing to the U.S. health care system as a clear case of no-drop violation:

"In the United States, people are left behind with reckless abandon. Those that are stricken with cancer or other chronic illness are left to life of high insurance premiums, at best; or lack of proper coverage, at worst. Through no fault of their own, they are randomly dealt a flat tire, and the society continues without them, as healthy citizens are convinced that the same thing cannot happen to them."

The paceline’s most compelling lesson, however, isn’t one of its rules of conduct, but rather the underlying concept. At face value, the paceline serves a simple purpose—reduce wind resistance, make the journey more efficient—but underneath, Hinterburg writes, there is greater meaning:

"The paceline represents an ethos that ties us all together, across time and geography. Find those that are going the same direction, and help them along, and have faith that others will help you as well. Convince others to join in on the journey, and ride with a smile."

—Sarah Pumroy

surferdude

Paceline is a great concept when you have people with near same ability and the same goal. I've never seen Lance Amrmstrong paceline during the tour de france with a person in a wheelchair. If he did he would lose and it would not help the person in the wheelchair much either. Is this what they're proposing for society?

polaris

surferdude wrote:

Paceline is a great concept when you have people with near same ability and the same goal. I've never seen Lance Amrmstrong paceline during the tour de france with a person in a wheelchair. If he did he would lose and it would not help the person in the wheelchair much either. Is this what they're proposing for society?

it would depend on what lance's goal is here ... is it to win the race or is it to get everyone to the finish line ...

surferdude

polaris wrote:

it would depend on what lance's goal is here ... is it to win the race or is it to get everyone to the finish line ...

I guees it depends on how society views success. Is success just existing and achieving at the ability of the lowest common denominator? Or is success letting those with ability work to their ability?

polaris

surferdude wrote:

I guees it depends on how society views success. Is success just existing and achieving at the ability of the lowest common denominator? Or is success letting those with ability work to their ability?

is that how you really see things? ... you are implying that working together to "share the load" means we can only achieve what the weakest link achieves ...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

nah i'm too lazy for this concept.

i'm basically the reason communism doesnt work.

surferdude

polaris wrote:

is that how you really see things? ... you are implying that working together to "share the load" means we can only achieve what the weakest link achieves ...

A paceline's pace is dictated by how fast the slowest person can go. The slowest person may be able to go faster than normal due to the help the paceline provides but they still dictate the speed of the paceline.

polaris

surferdude wrote:

A paceline's pace is dictated by how fast the slowest person can go. The slowest person may be able to go faster than normal due to the help the paceline provides but they still dictate the speed of the paceline.

exactly ... so, the real question is whether you want to be part of the team or to ride solo ...

surferdude

polaris wrote:

exactly ... so, the real question is whether you want to be part of the team or to ride solo ...

Why can't I choose a team that actually achieves something meaningful? Why can't I choose to work with people with like interests and abilities? Why would society want to penalize me for being capable?

polaris

surferdude wrote:

Why can't I choose a team that actually achieves something meaningful? Why can't I choose to work with people with like interests and abilities? Why would society want to penalize me for being capable?

you can ... no one is saying you can't ... if you feel that being part of a team that has people less capable then you is penalizing you then - that is your prerogative ... but not everyone shares that sentiment ...

Pacomc79

There's always a team leader, there are always time trials and the leader uses the rest of the team to help him win and he couldn't do it without their help...especially in the rough spots like the mountains. The leader will then will reward them for all thier great help...but in the end, there is always 1 overall champion even though the team may have helped along the way.

Parts of life can be achieved in a paceline and other parts of life are completely individual.

You get no innovation without individual achievement and pushing the limit of accepted thought.

The point is at points in our lives we all need or are in the paceline.... at other times we are on our own and need to make the best out of what we have or we'll never get anywhere.

We have to be careful not to squash the abilities of the best and most capable while bringing up the level of the least talented. At some point... they have to break loose from the group and go get it.

sweetpotato

with the exception of polaris, i think you guys are missing the point insofar as this analogy relates to society as a whole.

in everyone's life there will be ups & downs, strong times and not so strong. the idea of the paceline is that the survival of the team is more important than the achievments of individuals. i realize that this goes against the grain of those who support unbridled capitalism, but it would make for a more humane society and thus one that would be better equipped to survive the ups and downs that all societies face.

surferdude

sweetpotato wrote:

with the exception of polaris, i think you guys are missing the point insofar as this analogy relates to society as a whole.

in everyone's life there will be ups & downs, strong times and not so strong. the idea of the paceline is that the survival of the team is more important than the achievments of individuals. i realize that this goes against the grain of those who support unbridled capitalism, but it would make for a more humane society and thus one that would be better equipped to survive the ups and downs that all societies face.

But the article has made a successful society one that merely exists. Progress in entirely optional. I don't think that's a successful society. This would take us back to a time of being hunters and gatherers.

Commy

surferdude wrote:

But the article has made a successful society one that merely exists. Progress in entirely optional. I don't think that's a successful society. This would take us back to a time of being hunters and gatherers.

One thing about cpaitalism is that it motivates individuals within society to advance technology. But, and I haven't read above, that motivation is still there in a collective, just driven by diffferent ideas. It takes a shift in public awareness..people need to be thinking in terms of the community as opposed to what's good for them. And that way of thinking is actually encouraged as the society progresses, people see the results of working together, and isn't a prerequisite for its existence.

sweetpotato

surferdude wrote:

But the article has made a successful society one that merely exists. Progress in entirely optional. I don't think that's a successful society. This would take us back to a time of being hunters and gatherers.

i disagree. i don't think they need to be mutually exclusive. with the proper motivations, progress would be made AND people would live together more harmoniously, since the good of society as a whole would support both the achievers and those who need a hand. and let's not forget, these so-called "achievers" aren't necessarily BORN into circumstances that support success. isn't it possible that the guy that society helps, say, put through medical school because he was born into poverty, will be the one who discovers a cure for cancer?

jeffbr

polaris wrote:

exactly ... so, the real question is whether you want to be part of the team or to ride solo ...

I don't want to ride solo, but I do want to be part of the fast team.

Also, the paceline doesn't exist just to exist. In team form it exists to pull the "have" (ie Lance) to the finish ahead of other paceline "haves" at the expense of the "have nots". When competitors link up and form a paceline it is certainly to share the load for a bit, but at some point people absolutely are left behind whether because of lack of ability, exhaustion, mechanical failure or crash.

There is a purpose for the paceline that has nothing to do with making sure everyone finishes at the same time. And if someone can't keep up the pace, they're dropped from the team. If anyone thinks they exist to create equality of opportunity or outcome, see how far you get trying to ride with Team Discovery.

norm

jeffbr wrote:

I don't want to ride solo, but I do want to be part of the fast team.

Also, the paceline doesn't exist just to exist. In team form it exists to pull the "have" (ie Lance) to the finish ahead of other paceline "haves" at the expense of the "have nots". When competitors link up and form a paceline it is certainly to share the load for a bit, but at some point people absolutely are left behind whether because of lack of ability, exhaustion, mechanical failure or crash.

There is a purpose for the paceline that has nothing to do with making sure everyone finishes at the same time. And if someone can't keep up the pace, they're dropped from the team. If anyone thinks they exist to create equality of opportunity or outcome, see how far you get trying to ride with Team Discovery.

well said.....:)

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

how long can we overanalyze this silly metaphor?

sweetpotato

MrSmith wrote:

how long can we overanalyze this silly metaphor?

considering that you haven't contributed anything, i don't see how you're part of the "we" here.

take care.

sweetpotato

jeffbr wrote:

I don't want to ride solo, but I do want to be part of the fast team.

Also, the paceline doesn't exist just to exist. In team form it exists to pull the "have" (ie Lance) to the finish ahead of other paceline "haves" at the expense of the "have nots". When competitors link up and form a paceline it is certainly to share the load for a bit, but at some point people absolutely are left behind whether because of lack of ability, exhaustion, mechanical failure or crash.

There is a purpose for the paceline that has nothing to do with making sure everyone finishes at the same time. And if someone can't keep up the pace, they're dropped from the team. If anyone thinks they exist to create equality of opportunity or outcome, see how far you get trying to ride with Team Discovery.

maybe this would be considered "well said" if it were part of a thread about cycling. but it's not, so you're still missing the point.

and i guess you prove why this perfectly good, humane, and sensible concept could never work in this country. because here, it's every man for himself, and screw the rest. excellent.

prism

sweetpotato wrote:

maybe this would be considered "well said" if it were part of a thread about cycling. but it's not, so you're still missing the point.

and i guess you prove why this perfectly good, humane, and sensible concept could never work in this country. because here, it's every man for himself, and screw the rest. excellent.

right. I saw something on tv last night, it may have been on 20/20 (I'm kinda sleep deprived at the moment) about happiness. they discussed studies done by numerous sociologists about how the people that are the most happy (btw the US came in 23rd) are people that share compassion, kindness and a social connection with others within their family and community in their daily lives. even in some of the poorest countries in the world these connections by far outweighted $ and material posessions in determining a person's overall happiness. it just went to prove that the ol adage "money doesn't buy happiness" is still right on the mark.

it's just seems sad that people in this country are so preoccuped that they can't stop to figure out that "getting ahead" of everyone won't bring them happiness and that they'd be much happier being a part of a paceline, rather than (rat) racing to get ahead of everyone else.

so yes do I like this article. I think it's a lovely analogy

jeffbr

sweetpotato wrote:

maybe this would be considered "well said" if it were part of a thread about cycling. but it's not, so you're still missing the point.

and i guess you prove why this perfectly good, humane, and sensible concept could never work in this country. because here, it's every man for himself, and screw the rest. excellent.

You're missing the point. It is OK to want peace, humanity, goodness, compassion, etc... I haven't denegrated any of those things here as concepts. I simply think that this UTNE author tried to shoehorn an analogy that didn't fit, and I was simply pointing out why. If he starts talking about pacelines, it becomes a thread partially about cycling so that we can discuss what a paceline really is, and how it fits (or doesn't).

sweetpotato

jeffbr wrote:

You're missing the point. It is OK to want peace, humanity, goodness, compassion, etc... I haven't denegrated any of those things here as concepts. I simply think that this UTNE author tried to shoehorn an analogy that didn't fit, and I was simply pointing out why. If he starts talking about pacelines, it becomes a thread partially about cycling so that we can discuss what a paceline really is, and how it fits (or doesn't).

well, unlike you apparently, i don't need the analogy to be an exact perfect fit in order to understand it and draw something of value from it. i think it's a very good analogy, and all we would need is a deeper understanding of interconnectedness to put the lesson to good use, perfect analogy or not.

sweetpotato

prism wrote:

right. I saw something on tv last night, it may have been on 20/20 (I'm kinda sleep deprived at the moment) about happiness. they discussed studies done by numerous sociologists about how the people that are the most happy (btw the US came in 23rd) are people that share compassion, kindness and a social connection with others within their family and community in their daily lives. even in some of the poorest countries in the world these connections by far outweighted $ and material posessions in determining a person's overall happiness. it just went to prove that the ol adage "money doesn't buy happiness" is still right on the mark.

it's just seems sad that people in this country are so preoccuped that they can't stop to figure out that "getting ahead" of everyone won't bring them happiness and that they'd be much happier being a part of a paceline, rather than (rat) racing to get ahead of everyone else.

so yes do I like this article. I think it's a lovely analogy

yep.

my2hands

sweetpotato wrote:

Interesting article from Utne.com:

http://www.utne.com/2008-01-04/GreatWriting/Biking-for-a-Better-Tomorrow.aspx

Serious bicyclists are undoubtedly familiar with the concept of a paceline, a group of cyclists riding in a tight, single-file line in order to reduce wind resistance and increase efficiency. Writing for the literary journal Matter (article not available online), Mark Hinterburg elegantly argues that the humble paceline demonstrates keys concepts for a more conscientious society.

The paceline’s first lesson is to share the load. Like a flock of geese flying in V-formation, riders in a paceline take turns riding the front and breaking the wind. Weak or inexperienced riders aren’t expected to spend as much time there (known as a “pull”) as the stronger riders. Hinterburg suggests society should behave in like:

"Society degenerates, and the paceline is broken, when an unreasonable burden is expected from the lesser-abled groups. Are rising drug prices and inadequate insurance a fair way to treat our elderly? Likewise, the paceline loses efficiency when stronger riders take shorter pulls than weaker ones. Is it sensible to cut taxes on the ultra-rich, while the buying power of the middle class continues to decline? "

The paceline also prescribes to a common cyclist credo: the “no-drop” rule. When a flat tire or other problem strikes, one or two riders stay behind with the afflicted cyclist until the issue is resolved. We fail to behave this considerately as citizens, Hinterburg writes, pointing to the U.S. health care system as a clear case of no-drop violation:

"In the United States, people are left behind with reckless abandon. Those that are stricken with cancer or other chronic illness are left to life of high insurance premiums, at best; or lack of proper coverage, at worst. Through no fault of their own, they are randomly dealt a flat tire, and the society continues without them, as healthy citizens are convinced that the same thing cannot happen to them."

The paceline’s most compelling lesson, however, isn’t one of its rules of conduct, but rather the underlying concept. At face value, the paceline serves a simple purpose—reduce wind resistance, make the journey more efficient—but underneath, Hinterburg writes, there is greater meaning:

"The paceline represents an ethos that ties us all together, across time and geography. Find those that are going the same direction, and help them along, and have faith that others will help you as well. Convince others to join in on the journey, and ride with a smile."

—Sarah Pumroy

great analogy... i like it

jeffbr

sweetpotato wrote:

well, unlike you apparently, i don't need the analogy to be an exact perfect fit in order to understand it and draw something of value from it. i think it's a very good analogy, and all we would need is a deeper understanding of interconnectedness to put the lesson to good use, perfect analogy or not.

I think it is a stupid analogy since a paceline has nothing to do with compassion, happiness, kindness and social interconnectedness, and everything to do with getting your leader to the finish line first.

If you're happy drawing lessons from vague, mostly non-sequitor writings, that's cool. UTNE needs readership.

It looks like we're at an impasse.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

sweetpotato wrote:

considering that you haven't contributed anything, i don't see how you're part of the "we" here.

take care.

you're right. i was being nice. How long can YOU overanalyze this silly metaphor?



or analogy. or whatever. my vocabulary sucks. i blame the schools.

prism

sweetpotato wrote:

Interesting article from Utne.com:

http://www.utne.com/2008-01-04/GreatWriting/Biking-for-a-Better-Tomorrow.aspx

Serious bicyclists are undoubtedly familiar with the concept of a paceline, a group of cyclists riding in a tight, single-file line in order to reduce wind resistance and increase efficiency. Writing for the literary journal Matter (article not available online), Mark Hinterburg elegantly argues that the humble paceline demonstrates keys concepts for a more conscientious society.

The paceline’s first lesson is to share the load. Like a flock of geese flying in V-formation, riders in a paceline take turns riding the front and breaking the wind. Weak or inexperienced riders aren’t expected to spend as much time there (known as a “pull”) as the stronger riders. Hinterburg suggests society should behave in like:

"Society degenerates, and the paceline is broken, when an unreasonable burden is expected from the lesser-abled groups. Are rising drug prices and inadequate insurance a fair way to treat our elderly? Likewise, the paceline loses efficiency when stronger riders take shorter pulls than weaker ones. Is it sensible to cut taxes on the ultra-rich, while the buying power of the middle class continues to decline? "

The paceline also prescribes to a common cyclist credo: the “no-drop” rule. When a flat tire or other problem strikes, one or two riders stay behind with the afflicted cyclist until the issue is resolved. We fail to behave this considerately as citizens, Hinterburg writes, pointing to the U.S. health care system as a clear case of no-drop violation:

"In the United States, people are left behind with reckless abandon. Those that are stricken with cancer or other chronic illness are left to life of high insurance premiums, at best; or lack of proper coverage, at worst. Through no fault of their own, they are randomly dealt a flat tire, and the society continues without them, as healthy citizens are convinced that the same thing cannot happen to them."

The paceline’s most compelling lesson, however, isn’t one of its rules of conduct, but rather the underlying concept. At face value, the paceline serves a simple purpose—reduce wind resistance, make the journey more efficient—but underneath, Hinterburg writes, there is greater meaning:

"The paceline represents an ethos that ties us all together, across time and geography. Find those that are going the same direction, and help them along, and have faith that others will help you as well. Convince others to join in on the journey, and ride with a smile."

—Sarah Pumroy

on the show about happiness that i watching the other night they said that the happiest people are ones that trust others. that was where i thought to myself 'oh shit, I'm doomed to misery' ...LOL. cause i certainly have trust issues with people (for good reasons). though i realized that despite that i try to keep a positive outlook, it's not easy to know who can be trusted. then it occured to me that everyone does gets hurt (a lot or a little) at some points in time, there's no getting around it, that's life. but maybe part of being able to place trust in others is just doing your best to steer clear of those that would deliberately hurt you or others. cause realistically i'm sure that i've hurt other people in my life (everyone does), though I'm sure that I've never set out to intentionally hurt anyone. and but for a select few I'm pretty sure that most of the times when i've been hurt, it wasn't done with intent. when i trust others yeah i'll probably still get stung along the way, but it's perhaps worth the risk (it's that or sitting at home talking to the cat...hehe)

so maybe it would be helpful for everyone (and they'd be happier) to allow themselves to trust others more often and perhaps we could get a bit closer to a more just, cooperative soceity where it's not all a matter of "every man for themself" in a race to the finish line. I feel like everything that people do needn't be made into a contest, isn't it supposed to be about enjoying the journey? what's so wrong about everyone making it to the finish line and not worrying about who's the first one to get there?

I have to be awake and out of town in 4 hours, obviously i'm not racing to get to any sleep tonight, I suppose that's okay as long as i get there