US policy already has the military taking action against Pakistan.
he said he would end the war in Iraq.
My point was that voting for a US president doesn't ever "Safeguard" us from war.
Anyone voting for a candidate because they truly believe they would stick to that platform is kidding themselvesl.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
it also surprises me when people have rationales for making their view "right" and other views wrong, that they believe to have objective truth, when in reality, in actually understanding all peoples views, we see the validity to them.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
it also surprises me when people have rationales for making their view "right" and other views wrong, that they believe to have objective truth, when in reality, in actually understanding all peoples views, we see the validity to them.
Was the political theory section of this board full?
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
it surprises me to see the people who don't understand the validity of not voting.
look, I realize that if voting could change the system it would be illegal. but, there are times in history where things are too crucial to take a backseat.
economic levels haven't been at these levels since the great depression, those great years where warehouses held rotting food while people starved, where apartments stood empty and people slept on the sidewalks. that's where we're headed.
FDR didn't bring this country out of the great depression....the people of this country stood up for and demanded those actions, and he had to act. He is considered one of the greatest presidents of all time for that...and it wasn't even his idea. the people had to demand action from gov't, with general strikes across the country to sit ins to protest marches. the country stood up for what it needed. gov't wasn't gonna do it for them.
we are in a similar situation today. we need to realize that at least one of these candidates is addressing this reality...he at least claims he will do something about it going in-that's important. FDR had no idea, had no plans going in. At least Obama has an idea....and yes even with Obama we may need to shut this country down to get what is ours, that has historically been the only way any significant social progress takes place. But he gives us an opening for that change to take place...unlike McCain. Or Nader. Or Paul.
I feel neither of these candidates are worthy. I stood outside my polling place today and just could not bring myself to vote. Anyone else feel this way?
cool story bro
The Sentence Below Is True
The Sentence Above Is False
Do you even have a pulse? There's like 20 different issues to vote on in most states. You feel that none of these are worth your time? There's congressional races, mayors, senate races and enough propositions to give you a headache.
about as full as the sarcasm section of the board..........;)
nice!
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
look, I realize that if voting could change the system it would be illegal. but, there are times in history where things are too crucial to take a backseat.
economic levels haven't been at these levels since the great depression, those great years where warehouses held rotting food while people starved, where apartments stood empty and people slept on the sidewalks. that's where we're headed.
FDR didn't bring this country out of the great depression....the people of this country stood up for and demanded those actions, and he had to act. He is considered one of the greatest presidents of all time for that...and it wasn't even his idea. the people had to demand action from gov't, with general strikes across the country to sit ins to protest marches. the country stood up for what it needed. gov't wasn't gonna do it for them.
we are in a similar situation today. we need to realize that at least one of these candidates is addressing this reality...he at least claims he will do something about it going in-that's important. FDR had no idea, had no plans going in. At least Obama has an idea....and yes even with Obama we may need to shut this country down to get what is ours, that has historically been the only way any significant social progress takes place. But he gives us an opening for that change to take place...unlike McCain. Or Nader. Or Paul.
I think many people see your perspective. Do you understand where the OP is coming from? Or why I don't vote? Do you see the validity to that, as I see the validity in your perspective? I think the essential underlying issue to ALL our human-based problems is fragmentation, separation, and right/wrong judgments. And the antidote to these issues are understanding and unity beyond our egos and individuality. We can embrace our diversity. Because whether we do or not, it exists.
No matter what anyone's argument says, the OP came here with a perspective, and that perspective exists in many people, even if not a majority view.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think many people see your perspective. Do you understand where the OP is coming from? Or why I don't vote? Do you see the validity to that, as I see the validity in your perspective? I think the essential underlying issue to ALL our human-based problems is fragmentation, separation, and right/wrong judgments. And the antidote to these issues are understanding and unity beyond our egos and individuality. We can embrace our diversity. Because whether we do or not, it exists.
No matter what anyone's argument says, the OP came here with a perspective, and that perspective exists in many people, even if not a majority view.
I like where you're at, but a 1,000 yrs of human nature tells me this won't ever happen.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
I think many people see your perspective. Do you understand where the OP is coming from? Or why I don't vote? Do you see the validity to that, as I see the validity in your perspective? I think the essential underlying issue to ALL our human-based problems is fragmentation, separation, and right/wrong judgments. And the antidote to these issues are understanding and unity beyond our egos and individuality. We can embrace our diversity. Because whether we do or not, it exists.
No matter what anyone's argument says, the OP came here with a perspective, and that perspective exists in many people, even if not a majority view.
it's a valid stance. I find it hard to believe with so much at stake, but that's your right.
I like where you're at, but a 1,000 yrs of human nature tell me this won't ever happen.
People are waking up to the whole reality all the time, beyond the fragmentation and duality. It's amazing to witness! I'm a huge fan of evolutionary process! It's brilliant! It's such a fun ride if one is aligned with it, too! Those who are not feel the resistance, and fear of their own struggle against life. (and by "those who are not", I refer to any one of us who in any moment choose anti-life stances and conflicts, thusly choosing, consciously or unconsciously to go against reality)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
it surprises me to see the people who don't understand the validity of not voting.
There is no validity to not voting. This isn't a choice between a hamburger and a cheeseburger or should I buy that polka dot shirt or striped shirt.
It clearly indicates a lack of understanding of what issues are at stake locally and globally. A person who knows the issues, who is knowledgable about the repercusions of all decisions is someone who is enthusiastic to vote. If the issue most important to the person is not important to other voters, then it's time for that person to join the political arena. It's impossible to go out of your way to learn the issues, and not be enthusiastic about either voting against an opinion or for an opinion. As someone noted to not vote is a reflection of laziness.
Instead of deciding to not vote, that person should have spent more time researching the issues.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
There is no validity to not voting. This isn't a choice between a hamburger and a cheeseburger or should I buy that polka dot shirt or striped shirt.
It clearly indicates a lack of understanding of what issues are at stake locally and globally. A person who knows the issues, who is knowledgable about the repercusions of all decisions is someone who is enthusiastic to vote. If the issue most important to the person is not important to other voters, then it's time for that person to join the political arena. It's impossible to go out of your way to learn the issues, and not be enthusiastic about either voting against an opinion or for an opinion. As someone noted to not vote is a reflection of laziness.
Instead of deciding to not vote, that person should have spent more time researching the issues.
more intellectual violence. It starts within.
The choice I see is between breaking reality apart into fragments that suit our personal ego-view, where we make ourselves right and others wrong. or between practicing synthesis -- creating unity within our own selves and with others. As long as we project our own inner conflicts on the world...well, we're creating the war we blame others for perpetuating. Don't be surprised when our deeds somehow follow what arises from within.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't even have a choice, voting is mandatory in my country! There's no participation percentage statistics 'cause it's always @ 100%! There's a possibility to not vote: explain it to a judge a couple weeks later and hope he doesn't make you pay a fine that is a year's pay!
I don't even have a choice, voting is mandatory in my country! There's no participation percentage statistics 'cause it's always @ 100%! There's a possibility to not vote: explain it to a judge a couple weeks later and hope he doesn't make you pay a fine that is a year's pay!
How do you feel about not having the freedom to make that choice?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
right, your opinion is basically irrelevant if you don't vote.
You are absolutely wrong. Just because someone exercised their right to vote BY NOT VOTING does not mean they can't complain about the incumbants. They have the same right to complain as everyone else. They can complain because it wasn't them that put that person in office.
You are absolutely wrong. Just because someone exercised their right to vote BY NOT VOTING does not mean they can't complain about the incumbants. They have the same right to complain as everyone else. They can complain because it wasn't them that put that person in office.
they let someone else put that person in power. the decision was made for them because they chose not to participate.
edit: you don't want to vote that's your choice. just don't come crying to me when they stick us with another W.
There's so much more at stake here than who get's elected President.
There are more than a number of State Senate races that are very crucial in 2008.
Local issues and propositions that are on the table that as another poster put it...Effect Your day to day life.
I don't know. I just find it unacceptable for someone to cop out and not vote.
It's a lazy, irresponsible, and dangerous decision.
Dangerous in the fact that voter apathy could still exist after the disasterous 8 years of George W Bush.
You'd think people would be a little more aware this time around.
Fucking Scary Shit.
To me, what is scary is that you actually think your vote for president matters! WAKE UP, IT DOESN'T. The electors from your state don't even have to vote the way they are told to.
Here's a hypothetical to prove my point:
There is an EXTREMELY wealthy oil baron in the middle east that essentially wants to buy the vote for the US president. According to the polls in each of the states, the electors are supposed to vote such that John McCain wins...but the oil baron wants Obama to win...so Instead of campaigning, he waits until the electors are about ready to go and vote McCain the winner when the oil baron pays each of them a hefty $10 million each to be an unfaithful elector and cast their electoral vote for Obama, thus making Obama the next president.
As remote as this hypothetical may seem, the fact that it remains a possibility makes your vote worthless and pointless...yet you criticize everyone for being lazy if they chose not to vote. Personally, I'm going to the poll and refusing to vote for president until my vote actually counts. Until the presidential election is a popular vote, you are wasting your time by voting...and I think it is wrong to criticize others for exercising their right to vote by not voting, because as it turns out, their vote is worth just as much as yours.
The choice I see is between breaking reality apart into fragments that suit our personal ego-view, where we make ourselves right and others wrong. or between practicing synthesis -- creating unity within our own selves and with others. As long as we project our own inner conflicts on the world...well, we're creating the war we blame others for perpetuating. Don't be surprised when our deeds somehow follow what arises from within.
Your "Intellectual violence" is my "passion." That person decided to not research the issues, so whereas I have exhibited, "Intellectual violence", you and others who do not vote exhibit "Intellectual voids, Intellectual inertia, Intellectual stalemate?" This would result not in war I perpetrate but rather a short life of boredom that you subscribe to. Is that right? In 1920 you would have been one of the women who didn't vote because it's ok if others give you the opinion to have. I, on the other hand, would have been the first in line even if I just had an appendectomy the day before. Voting is luscious, it's gold, it's sexy, it's power, and water cooler conversation. How many actions are so versatile?
Voting is to give, to give someone else a decided opinion based on an action. The act of voting doesn't negate someone else's opinion, and that's the beauty of it. No one has the right to take another person's vote away. For this reason a vote of the most powerful person is worth the weight of someone who is that person's employee five levels down. Voting is clearly community building as people put their actions to thoughts, and by doing so they direct their local and national cultures.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
they let someone else put that person in power. the decision was made for them because they chose not to participate.
edit: you don't want to vote that's your choice. just don't come crying to me when they stick us with another W.
Let's say there is a corrupt system/game. Lets say someone opts not to engage that game, because they see that to do so is to perpatuate and fuel it, and to play into it, keeping it going. I personally think that when the corruption of the game plays out as it's predisposed to do so, those who have chosen not to engage are certainly entitled their view and opinion and to express it!
I also understand why those who are engaging, and who take their own view to be 'right' will have justification that says otherwise.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Your "Intellectual violence" is my "passion." That person decided to not research the issues, so whereas I have exhibited, "Intellectual violence", you and others who do not vote exhibit "Intellectual voids, Intellectual inertia, Intellectual stalemate?" This would result not in war I perpetrate but rather a short life of boredom that you subscribe to. Is that right? In 1920 you would have been one of the women who didn't vote because it's ok if others give you the opinion to have. I, on the other hand, would have been the first in line even if I just had an appendectomy the day before. Voting is luscious, it's gold, it's sexy, it's power, and water cooler conversation. How many actions are so versatile?
Voting is to give, to give someone else a decided opinion based on an action. The act of voting doesn't negate someone else's opinion, and that's the beauty of it. No one has the right to take another person's vote away. For this reason a vote of the most powerful person is worth the weight of someone who is that person's employee five levels down. Voting is clearly community building as people put their actions to thoughts, and by doing so they direct their local and national cultures.
Right..so we'll stop conflict on the world stage, and create it in ourselves and against our brother who stands next to us. Inauthentic power is not power. Voting can be wonderful and empowering. To invalidate another's perspective because we don't understand or have tolerance for it is inauthentic illusory power. They are two very different issues.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't even have a choice, voting is mandatory in my country! There's no participation percentage statistics 'cause it's always @ 100%! There's a possibility to not vote: explain it to a judge a couple weeks later and hope he doesn't make you pay a fine that is a year's pay!
Did it become mandatory recently or in response to something decades ago? How do you feel about your country for mandating voting? I can't say I'm for mandated voting, but if you are proud of your country because you always have 100% turnout then it's probably one of the reasons your country mandated it(?) Do you know the history of the law?
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
To invalidate another's perspective because we don't understand or have tolerance for it is inauthentic illusory power. They are two very different issues.
An opinion, clear and simple, not inauthentic illusory power. I do not direct that person in his/her actions, i.e., physically drag that person's ass to the polling place or there would be hell to pay. I give an opinion. Two very different issues.
Thank you for the exchange. I'm going to remove myself as I have a knitting group to go to.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Comments
My point was that voting for a US president doesn't ever "Safeguard" us from war.
Anyone voting for a candidate because they truly believe they would stick to that platform is kidding themselvesl.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Was the political theory section of this board full?
economic levels haven't been at these levels since the great depression, those great years where warehouses held rotting food while people starved, where apartments stood empty and people slept on the sidewalks. that's where we're headed.
FDR didn't bring this country out of the great depression....the people of this country stood up for and demanded those actions, and he had to act. He is considered one of the greatest presidents of all time for that...and it wasn't even his idea. the people had to demand action from gov't, with general strikes across the country to sit ins to protest marches. the country stood up for what it needed. gov't wasn't gonna do it for them.
we are in a similar situation today. we need to realize that at least one of these candidates is addressing this reality...he at least claims he will do something about it going in-that's important. FDR had no idea, had no plans going in. At least Obama has an idea....and yes even with Obama we may need to shut this country down to get what is ours, that has historically been the only way any significant social progress takes place. But he gives us an opening for that change to take place...unlike McCain. Or Nader. Or Paul.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
cool story bro
The Sentence Above Is False
nice!
No matter what anyone's argument says, the OP came here with a perspective, and that perspective exists in many people, even if not a majority view.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I like where you're at, but a 1,000 yrs of human nature tells me this won't ever happen.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It clearly indicates a lack of understanding of what issues are at stake locally and globally. A person who knows the issues, who is knowledgable about the repercusions of all decisions is someone who is enthusiastic to vote. If the issue most important to the person is not important to other voters, then it's time for that person to join the political arena. It's impossible to go out of your way to learn the issues, and not be enthusiastic about either voting against an opinion or for an opinion. As someone noted to not vote is a reflection of laziness.
Instead of deciding to not vote, that person should have spent more time researching the issues.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
The choice I see is between breaking reality apart into fragments that suit our personal ego-view, where we make ourselves right and others wrong. or between practicing synthesis -- creating unity within our own selves and with others. As long as we project our own inner conflicts on the world...well, we're creating the war we blame others for perpetuating. Don't be surprised when our deeds somehow follow what arises from within.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
When we have a true democracy, then you can bitch at people for not voting.
edit: you don't want to vote that's your choice. just don't come crying to me when they stick us with another W.
If your vote's uncast, you can't bombast.
(read that on a Magic Hat bottle cap, lol)
Here's a hypothetical to prove my point:
There is an EXTREMELY wealthy oil baron in the middle east that essentially wants to buy the vote for the US president. According to the polls in each of the states, the electors are supposed to vote such that John McCain wins...but the oil baron wants Obama to win...so Instead of campaigning, he waits until the electors are about ready to go and vote McCain the winner when the oil baron pays each of them a hefty $10 million each to be an unfaithful elector and cast their electoral vote for Obama, thus making Obama the next president.
As remote as this hypothetical may seem, the fact that it remains a possibility makes your vote worthless and pointless...yet you criticize everyone for being lazy if they chose not to vote. Personally, I'm going to the poll and refusing to vote for president until my vote actually counts. Until the presidential election is a popular vote, you are wasting your time by voting...and I think it is wrong to criticize others for exercising their right to vote by not voting, because as it turns out, their vote is worth just as much as yours.
Voting is to give, to give someone else a decided opinion based on an action. The act of voting doesn't negate someone else's opinion, and that's the beauty of it. No one has the right to take another person's vote away. For this reason a vote of the most powerful person is worth the weight of someone who is that person's employee five levels down. Voting is clearly community building as people put their actions to thoughts, and by doing so they direct their local and national cultures.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
I also understand why those who are engaging, and who take their own view to be 'right' will have justification that says otherwise.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Thank you for the exchange. I'm going to remove myself as I have a knitting group to go to.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird