there are plenty of alternative energy sources out there ... they just don't happen to control congress ...
Like????? Nuclear? Seriously, that's everybody's answer to everything. Its also a horrible argument considering it wouldnt actually affect us "Not rich Prius driving" folk.
I honestly dont have a problem with the gas prices, just because I can start up a savings account and by the time Pearl Jam decides to come anywhere near i can bust it open and drive myself!
And we need Nuclear Plants! Thats how France gets like 90% of their energy.
(I dont need to hear this Chernobyl, 3-mile island crap either)
Seriously, what's the big difference at this point? We're cutting carbon emissions by 2050? Perhaps, if we hurry up and use up all the oil supplies sooner than later, we'll move onto the next type of fuel.....
or all be dead. Probably on the way to extinction, and by the looks of humanity on the Earth, I can't say I'll be sad.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Well hopefully Congress will not be as short sighted. Bush lifting the ban is useless, without Congressional approval they can't start drilling.
the u.s. congress is as weak as it's ever been and probably already been paid off 10 times already for shit like this. there's so little integrity and backbone these days...it's so sad and pathetic.
The only significance will be the impact on wildlife.
Time to write congress, again.
Environmental impacts of oil drilling are generally localised to the drilling site itself - and these effects will be even less significant for deep offshore wells in >100 m of water whoese only contact with the seabed will be via the well head itself and stabilising anchors. This means that < 10 square m of seabed is directly impacted.
Typically the consequences of oil spills only become environmentally significant when they reach near shore coastal waters. This is why when oil spills occur the first step is too disperse them out to sea AWAY from the areas of highest biodiversity.
There are many examples of petroleum exploration having no detrimental impact on wildlife. For example Barrow Island in Western Australia.
How exactly do you think oil drilling offshore will have such a devastating impact on wildlife? Isn't the Gulf of Mexico offshore drilling?
Environmental impacts of oil drilling are generally localised to the drilling site itself - and these effects will be even less significant for deep offshore wells in >100 m of water whoese only contact with the seabed will be via the well head itself and stabilising anchors. This means that < 10 square m of seabed is directly impacted.
Typically the consequences of oil spills only become environmentally significant when they reach near shore coastal waters. This is why when oil spills occur the first step is too disperse them out to sea AWAY from the areas of highest biodiversity.
There are many examples of petroleum exploration having no detrimental impact on wildlife. For example Barrow Island in Western Australia.
How exactly do you think oil drilling offshore will have such a devastating impact on wildlife? Isn't the Gulf of Mexico offshore drilling?
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
so your blaming american politicians for alternative energies not coming to the global forefront? american politicians are to be blamed for the worlds failure to properly design and harness viable alternative energy that could easily fuel the planet of 6 billion?
the 1 problem with the last 8 years is people blaming politicians and governments for every shortcoming and problem in the world... the internet fueled "everything is a government/corporate conspiracy" phenomenon is getting a bit ridiculous and harmful to genuine real world progress as well...
but whatever
it's bush's fault the big 3 have not developed a solar flying magic carpet SUV yet :rolleyes:
you have shifted right haven't you? ... interesting.
in any case - your fossil-burning sources of energy are heavily subsidized - even at $4 a gallon that's like comparable to a bottle of coke ... anyone who thinks it costs the same to produce a litre of gas for your car as it does coke needs to think about it a bit more ...
if renewables were given the same market advantages as oil or coal - you would see huge progress in that sector - but again, they do not control congress nor the office of the president ... they aren't the ones who can convince politicians to wage a war in the middle east ...
america is still one of the cheapest places in the world to buy gas - people all over the world have been paying your prices for years ... but it's not as big a factor because they understand it's properties as a unrenewable resource ...
How does no one win but the oil companies? In Canada the high price of oil and the fact that we have tons of it to drill is a huge boost to the economy. It provides 1000's of jobs for Canadians (that are very difficult to outsource to another country), provides a ton of money in taxes to pay for things like roads and schools and provides money for anyone who is able to invest. How would it not be the same in the US?
it's a localized benefit and it's a bit misleading ... sure you can get paid $20/hr to work at timmy's in alberta but everything else costs more too ... and because of the price of oil - manufacturing jobs across the country are disappearing ... sure, any province with oil in Canada can generate tax revenue but what about the others? ... and how is this sustainable?
the single biggest factor affecting canada's ability to combat climate change is the oil sands ...
Like????? Nuclear? Seriously, that's everybody's answer to everything. Its also a horrible argument considering it wouldnt actually affect us "Not rich Prius driving" folk.
I honestly dont have a problem with the gas prices, just because I can start up a savings account and by the time Pearl Jam decides to come anywhere near i can bust it open and drive myself!
And we need Nuclear Plants! Thats how France gets like 90% of their energy.
(I dont need to hear this Chernobyl, 3-mile island crap either)
Nuclear is the way to go. That is where we should be investing. We should have started 40 years ago.]
it's a localized benefit and it's a bit misleading ... sure you can get paid $20/hr to work at timmy's in alberta but everything else costs more too ... and because of the price of oil - manufacturing jobs across the country are disappearing ... sure, any province with oil in Canada can generate tax revenue but what about the others? ... and how is this sustainable?
I wasn't really talking about the guy working in fast food and making 20 bucks an hour I was more talking about people like the guys like the skilled trades people working in the oil fields, or the engineers or the geologists. Those were the good jobs I was talking about. Even if those jobs aren't sustainable forever developing those professions is a beneficial. And really what job is sustainable forever?
I wasn't really talking about the guy working in fast food and making 20 bucks an hour I was more talking about people like the guys like the skilled trades people working in the oil fields, or the engineers or the geologists. Those were the good jobs I was talking about. Even if those jobs aren't sustainable forever developing those professions is a beneficial. And really what job is sustainable forever?
yeah ... again - look at the rest of the country - what is good for one sector of the economy does not necessarily mean it's good for the rest ...
Like I said its a localised effect. I read that sheet and it is very vague about the impacts. For a start working as a zoologist there is no clear link between seismic surveys and whale beachings so presenting it is such is misleading.
There are also laws in place which prevent companies from conducting surveys or drilling when whales are spotted. Additionally companies must conduct seabed surveys prior to drilling a site to ensure they are not drilling biological structures like reefs or bioherms.
The industry is heavily regulated though its seems you and many other people think it is a free for all for the 'big bad oil companies'.
The good thing is that our congress moves so slowly on passing anything that we probably won't see them even attempt to repeal the law until the election is over.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Unless it's something really important... you know like passing bills (which aren't really read) in the middle of the night.
People have mixed feelings when it comes to this topic but thing we can probably all agree on, an increase in offshore drilling will at some point lead to oil spoils and therefore polluting the earth further in a major way. It may not seem like a big deal now, but drilling more in offshore has the potential to lead to disasterous things. In my opinion, the possible rewards (more oil), isn't worth the risks. We need to emphasize and more towards other energy sources, not raise new ways to get more oil.
The good thing is that our congress moves so slowly on passing anything that we probably won't see them even attempt to repeal the law until the election is over.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We need to emphasize and more towards other energy sources, not raise new ways to get more oil.
Wrong. We need both. That super-cool, clean-burning, envirnonmentally safe new form of energy that actually saves whales that we'll develop in 25 years will do us no good if we're all dead.
The long-term solution needs to be alternative energy.
We still need cheap(er) oil to get us through the short term.
Maybe off-shore drilling won't help signficantly. But it sure as fuck can't hurt.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Do you realize how long we've dragged our feet in moving towards new energy sources? We have many different types which have been researched, many which are successful. They are not profitable enough, therefore "bad" ideas. Searching for more oil now, is like an alcoholic telling themselves they'll give up drinking slowly and will only do shots and not have beers as well. We are addicted to oil use and consumption. The entire world consumption has gone up and up to record numbers. Continuing such actions will only make the situation worse and cause more chaos and destruction until we find an alternative solution.
Wrong. We need both. That super-cool, clean-burning, envirnonmentally safe new form of energy that actually saves whales that we'll develop in 25 years will do us no good if we're all dead.
The long-term solution needs to be alternative energy.
We still need cheap(er) oil to get us through the short term.
Maybe off-shore drilling won't help signficantly. But it sure as fuck can't hurt.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Do you realize how long we've dragged our feet in moving towards new energy sources?
Yeah, it sucks. I want my next president to aggressively push alternate energy forms. In the meantime, I'd like to be able to afford to drive to work.
Searching for more oil now, is like an alcoholic telling themselves they'll give up drinking slowly and will only do shots and not have beers as well. We are addicted to oil use and consumption.
Understand your analogy. Unfortunately, I don't think cold turkey is the way to go, either. We need to wean ourselves off of the oil teet. We can start by making a push toward becoming energy independent. It's good for my wallet, and it's good for national security.
The entire world consumption has gone up and up to record numbers. Continuing such actions will only make the situation worse and cause more chaos and destruction until we find an alternative solution.
Call me crazy, but I think $10 gas would cause worse than chaos and destruction in this country.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
See here's the problem: the main reason we don't have more alternative energy forms currently is the same reason why we will drill off-shore and the next president won't significantly fix the situation either (no matter who it is). Big oil has too many connections in DC via lobbying, campaign financing and bankrolling projects (which all get the nod - whether spoken or unspoken). This is an issue which is not "electable" according to most politicians. They may make "promises" or "have hopes of change", but in reality, it's a pipe (sorry for the oil joke) dream. Business interests come first and foremost in our nation. You may hope offshore drilling will be a slow ween and temporary fix, while we develop alternatives, but in reality, offshore drilling is searching for more oil so we can continue our ways, not change them. The rest is mere double-talk by politicians trying to gain votes and "relate" to their voters.
Lastly, you may not think of it these exact terms, but the environment (both physical and location) causes political and social situations. Whether it's wars in the Middle East for oil access, or global warming drying up parts of Africa which lead to lakes, rivers, etc, disappearing, which displaces people and leads to things like war, famine or even genocide (Darfur). The cost of gas won't cause "chaos" per say (people reacting to it will), the result of oil consumption rising while speculators talk about peak oil passing us by (the amount of oil in the world diminishing), on the other hand will cause chaos.
Yeah, it sucks. I want my next president to aggressively push alternate energy forms. In the meantime, I'd like to be able to afford to drive to work.
Understand your analogy. Unfortunately, I don't think cold turkey is the way to go, either. We need to wean ourselves off of the oil teet. We can start by making a push toward becoming energy independent. It's good for my wallet, and it's good for national security.
Call me crazy, but I think $10 gas would cause worse than chaos and destruction in this country.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This is the biggest red herring since going to war with Iraq.
There's no such thing as "American Oil". Its pumped then enters world market not the US market.
...
This is true.
Only an idiot believes that it is "HIS" oil. He doesn't own that shit... THEY do. And they will sell it to the highest bidder... CHINA... because oil companies do not have ties to one country. So, he could have the oil as long as he pays Global Market prices.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
we can probably all agree on, an increase in offshore drilling will at some point lead to oil spoils and therefore polluting the earth further in a major way.
Most major oil spills (i.e Exxon Valdez) are associated with the transportation of oil not the drilling itself. As we move offshore the environmntal risks of oil spills actually decrease becuase slicks are dispersed rapidly.But oil will always be need to be transported by tanker at sea regardless of where we drill.
Unless people are dumb they would be aware that the Gulf of Mexico is infact 'offshore'
If we put any new oil into the environment where it does not belong (directly or indirectly), we are increasing pollution. It is impossible for pollution to decrease if we are extracting more oil in any fashion.
Most major oil spills (i.e Exxon Valdez) are associated with the transportation of oil not the drilling itself. As we move offshore the environmntal risks of oil spills actually decrease becuase slicks are dispersed rapidly.But oil will always be need to be transported by tanker at sea regardless of where we drill.
Unless people are dumb they would be aware that the Gulf of Mexico is infact 'offshore'
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"It is only a truly dysfunctional system that would buy into the perverse logic that the short-term answer to high gasoline prices is drilling for more oil 10 years from now," Gore said.
Comments
Like????? Nuclear? Seriously, that's everybody's answer to everything. Its also a horrible argument considering it wouldnt actually affect us "Not rich Prius driving" folk.
I honestly dont have a problem with the gas prices, just because I can start up a savings account and by the time Pearl Jam decides to come anywhere near i can bust it open and drive myself!
And we need Nuclear Plants! Thats how France gets like 90% of their energy.
(I dont need to hear this Chernobyl, 3-mile island crap either)
Yeah, they better put a halt to this nonsense. Then again, I have such little faith in them anymore...
:(
or all be dead. Probably on the way to extinction, and by the looks of humanity on the Earth, I can't say I'll be sad.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
been living in this country long?
Environmental impacts of oil drilling are generally localised to the drilling site itself - and these effects will be even less significant for deep offshore wells in >100 m of water whoese only contact with the seabed will be via the well head itself and stabilising anchors. This means that < 10 square m of seabed is directly impacted.
Typically the consequences of oil spills only become environmentally significant when they reach near shore coastal waters. This is why when oil spills occur the first step is too disperse them out to sea AWAY from the areas of highest biodiversity.
There are many examples of petroleum exploration having no detrimental impact on wildlife. For example Barrow Island in Western Australia.
How exactly do you think oil drilling offshore will have such a devastating impact on wildlife? Isn't the Gulf of Mexico offshore drilling?
Stirring up the seabed = problem
http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlands/coasts/factsheets/120507-gasleases.pdf
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
you have shifted right haven't you? ... interesting.
in any case - your fossil-burning sources of energy are heavily subsidized - even at $4 a gallon that's like comparable to a bottle of coke ... anyone who thinks it costs the same to produce a litre of gas for your car as it does coke needs to think about it a bit more ...
if renewables were given the same market advantages as oil or coal - you would see huge progress in that sector - but again, they do not control congress nor the office of the president ... they aren't the ones who can convince politicians to wage a war in the middle east ...
america is still one of the cheapest places in the world to buy gas - people all over the world have been paying your prices for years ... but it's not as big a factor because they understand it's properties as a unrenewable resource ...
it's a localized benefit and it's a bit misleading ... sure you can get paid $20/hr to work at timmy's in alberta but everything else costs more too ... and because of the price of oil - manufacturing jobs across the country are disappearing ... sure, any province with oil in Canada can generate tax revenue but what about the others? ... and how is this sustainable?
the single biggest factor affecting canada's ability to combat climate change is the oil sands ...
Someone get Mr. Burns on the phone!
I wasn't really talking about the guy working in fast food and making 20 bucks an hour I was more talking about people like the guys like the skilled trades people working in the oil fields, or the engineers or the geologists. Those were the good jobs I was talking about. Even if those jobs aren't sustainable forever developing those professions is a beneficial. And really what job is sustainable forever?
yeah ... again - look at the rest of the country - what is good for one sector of the economy does not necessarily mean it's good for the rest ...
Like I said its a localised effect. I read that sheet and it is very vague about the impacts. For a start working as a zoologist there is no clear link between seismic surveys and whale beachings so presenting it is such is misleading.
There are also laws in place which prevent companies from conducting surveys or drilling when whales are spotted. Additionally companies must conduct seabed surveys prior to drilling a site to ensure they are not drilling biological structures like reefs or bioherms.
The industry is heavily regulated though its seems you and many other people think it is a free for all for the 'big bad oil companies'.
The good thing is that our congress moves so slowly on passing anything that we probably won't see them even attempt to repeal the law until the election is over.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
People have mixed feelings when it comes to this topic but thing we can probably all agree on, an increase in offshore drilling will at some point lead to oil spoils and therefore polluting the earth further in a major way. It may not seem like a big deal now, but drilling more in offshore has the potential to lead to disasterous things. In my opinion, the possible rewards (more oil), isn't worth the risks. We need to emphasize and more towards other energy sources, not raise new ways to get more oil.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Wrong. We need both. That super-cool, clean-burning, envirnonmentally safe new form of energy that actually saves whales that we'll develop in 25 years will do us no good if we're all dead.
The long-term solution needs to be alternative energy.
We still need cheap(er) oil to get us through the short term.
Maybe off-shore drilling won't help signficantly. But it sure as fuck can't hurt.
for the least they could possibly do
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yeah, it sucks. I want my next president to aggressively push alternate energy forms. In the meantime, I'd like to be able to afford to drive to work.
Understand your analogy. Unfortunately, I don't think cold turkey is the way to go, either. We need to wean ourselves off of the oil teet. We can start by making a push toward becoming energy independent. It's good for my wallet, and it's good for national security.
Call me crazy, but I think $10 gas would cause worse than chaos and destruction in this country.
for the least they could possibly do
Lastly, you may not think of it these exact terms, but the environment (both physical and location) causes political and social situations. Whether it's wars in the Middle East for oil access, or global warming drying up parts of Africa which lead to lakes, rivers, etc, disappearing, which displaces people and leads to things like war, famine or even genocide (Darfur). The cost of gas won't cause "chaos" per say (people reacting to it will), the result of oil consumption rising while speculators talk about peak oil passing us by (the amount of oil in the world diminishing), on the other hand will cause chaos.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This is true.
Only an idiot believes that it is "HIS" oil. He doesn't own that shit... THEY do. And they will sell it to the highest bidder... CHINA... because oil companies do not have ties to one country. So, he could have the oil as long as he pays Global Market prices.
Hail, Hail!!!
Most major oil spills (i.e Exxon Valdez) are associated with the transportation of oil not the drilling itself. As we move offshore the environmntal risks of oil spills actually decrease becuase slicks are dispersed rapidly.But oil will always be need to be transported by tanker at sea regardless of where we drill.
Unless people are dumb they would be aware that the Gulf of Mexico is infact 'offshore'
I heard that already happened? Some type of car that ran off of water or something?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"It is only a truly dysfunctional system that would buy into the perverse logic that the short-term answer to high gasoline prices is drilling for more oil 10 years from now," Gore said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/17/gore.energy/index.html
Its getting to the point where anyone who supports Bush and this provision is sub-human, as in, they lack basic human intelligence.