Capitalism vs. Socialism

24

Comments

  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    yes, that is part of it. again, that is a result a more socialized form of government.

    if i'm not mistaken, the US ranks last among so-called "developed" countries in terms of the gap between wealthy and poor. the ten percent of americans with the highest incomes earn 15 times more than the bottom ten percent. it's only getting worse. i believe the gap is widening here in canada as well. it's a scary thing, and it's a determining factor in the standard of living in nations as well.

    Yes indeed, when the top income earners earn more, they pay more taxes. This results in more tax funding for programs for poor people. Additionally, as I've said, when rich people have more money they invest it in companies and the market.

    A gap between rich and poor is a term used mainly by people who support more socialist policies. Socialism takes into account a divided class system, but in theoretical capitalism, class mobility is very high. In my view, class mobility is very high. In democratic socialist countries like France, class mobility is very low. 13% unemployment is not uncommon, and I don't believe those unemployed want to be employed either.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Yes indeed, when the top income earners earn more, they pay more taxes. This results in more tax funding for programs for poor people. Additionally, as I've said, when rich people have more money they invest it in companies and the market.

    A gap between rich and poor is a term used mainly by people who support more socialist policies. Socialism takes into account a divided class system, but in theoretical capitalism, class mobility is very high. In my view, class mobility is very high. In democratic socialist countries like France, class mobility is very low. 13% unemployment is not uncommon, and I don't believe those unemployed want to be employed either.

    personally i prefer a system like they use in sweden where the rich are taxed VERY highly, so that you don't have the extreme gap between rich and poor. they have great social programs and the people who may not earn enough or need help can actually get it, instead of barely being able to meet their needs or not being able to get help at all.

    difference of opinion i guess...i don't believe in people being ridiculously rich and not having to pay their fair share in taxes. by fair share i'm meaning a VERY high tax rate so that, as i said, the rich are not earning 15 times that of the lower class. i would also disagree about your statement that the unemployed don't want to be employed.
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    personally i prefer a system like they use in sweden where the rich are taxed VERY highly, so that you don't have the extreme gap between rich and poor. they have great social programs and the people who may not earn enough or need help can actually get it, instead of barely being able to meet their needs or not being able to get help at all.

    difference of opinion i guess...i don't believe in people being ridiculously rich and not having to pay their fair share in taxes. by fair share i'm meaning a VERY high tax rate so that, as i said, the rich are not earning 15 times that of the lower class. i would also disagree about your statement that the unemployed don't want to be employed.

    You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want Utopia. I think the best quote ever about the US is this: "Democracy, the worst form of government, but I would want nothing else."

    You fuckers need to start understanding that you are living in the best environment for humans there is. That environment is provided by the laws and mores set up within these borders. They allow free speech, they allow freedom of travel, and most of all, they allow you to leave if you think you can find something better. So, if you are so pissed with your situation, you are welcome to find a better solution....or you can sit at a computer and bitch. The choice is yours. but remember, most people can't even type what you are saying right now without fear of retribution from the government. Get some fucking perspective.
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want Utopia. I think the best quote ever about the US is this: "Democracy, the worst form of government, but I would want nothing else."

    You fuckers need to start understanding that you are living in the best environment for humans there is. That environment is provided by the laws and mores set up within these borders. They allow free speech, they allow freedom of travel, and most of all, they allow you to leave if you think you can find something better. So, if you are so pissed with your situation, you are welcome to find a better solution....or you can sit at a computer and bitch. The choice is yours. but remember, most people can't even type what you are saying right now without fear of retribution from the government. Get some fucking perspective.

    i have actually lived in sweden, and they have a much better standard of living than we do here in north america. i would go back in a second and i intend to. it's not utopia but they treat people like human beings, whereas many people here are ok with the fact that the extremely wealthy earn 15 times that which they do. it's not right.

    again, you misunderstand governments that have socialized tendencies. there is no lack of freedom. it just makes things reasonable and livable for all people...not just ten percent of the population. there are better ways to live than that. we have been fooled into thinking that "ours is the best" when there are so many better options that could be utilized.

    thanks for your eloquent response.
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    i have actually lived in sweden, and they have a much better standard of living than we do here in north america. i would go back in a second and i intend to. it's not utopia but they treat people like human beings, whereas many people here are ok with the fact that the extremely wealthy earn 15 times that which they do. it's not right.

    again, you misunderstand governments that have socialized tendencies. there is no lack of freedom. it just makes things reasonable and livable for all people...not just ten percent of the population. there are better ways to live than that. we have been fooled into thinking that "ours is the best" when there are so many better options that could be utilized.

    thanks for your eloquent response.

    Here's something else Sweden is good for: suicides. Sweden's suicide rate leads all others. Not sure that is the 'better option'.
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Here's something else Sweden is good for: suicides. Sweden's suicide rate leads all others. Not sure that is the 'better option'.

    most agree that depression is a part of living in a place where part of the year involves living with very little sunlight.

    you're off the topic and obviously grasping at straws to demean a place that has a higher standard of living than the US.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Additionally, Sweden's birthrate is unsustainable for the Swedish population; therefore, the remedy is immigration. Immigration from where? The third world. Most of the people who immigrate from the third world are poor. Socialist countries cannot afford a massive influx of hungry mouths without an equal compensation from rich people who get taxed heavily.

    Socialism falls apart because of the very people it tries to help: the poor.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    you're off the topic and obviously grasping at straws to demean a place that has a higher standard of living than the US.

    Hey, fucko, how high is the standard of living there when they have the greatest percentage of their population killing themselves? I think you are confusing 'standard of living' with 'quality of life'. Idiot.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Hey, fucko, how high is the standard of living there when they have the greatest percentage of their population killing themselves? I think you are confusing 'standard of living' with 'quality of life'. Idiot.

    Methinks the standard of dying is quite good in Sweden.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Methinks the standard of dying is quite good in Sweden.

    Quite. Superior, actually.
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    thank you both for a "reasonable" conversation and for reminding me why i normally stay away from the train wreck in the first place. it's not worth arguing over. you have your opinions and insults, i have my opinion, but i have not insulted either of you.
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    most agree that depression is a part of living in a place where part of the year involves living with very little sunlight.

    you're off the topic and obviously grasping at straws to demean a place that has a higher standard of living than the US.

    Actually, I foud this quite insulting on two fronts: 1) 'grasping at straws', when I am stating facts, and 2) just being wrong. But I do like the way you tried to take the high ground there. Very white of you.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    thank you both for a "reasonable" conversation and for reminding me why i normally stay away from the train wreck in the first place. it's not worth arguing over. you have your opinions and insults, i have my opinion, but i have not insulted either of you.

    Yea man, insults suck no matter how they are flavored.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea man, insults suck no matter how they are flavored.

    Deep...and yet not.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Deep...and yet not.

    That's good. I suppose it goes without saying that insults are intended to do harm, regardless of their delivery.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Actually, I foud this quite insulting on two fronts: 1) 'grasping at straws', when I am stating facts, and 2) just being wrong. But I do like the way you tried to take the high ground there. Very white of you.
    Enjoy your vacation :)
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    There are certainly degrees of capitalism and socialism in many societies. The democratic socialist countries of europe are farther left on the scale compared to american capitalism. Indeed, we have some socialist policies in America, but I am apt to argue that even those are unnecessary.

    So, my definition for socialism is thus: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

    I don't think any of the means of production or distribution should be owned collectively or by a centralized government. I don't think the government should help plan or control the economy in any way.

    For example, I believe that social security is a socialist policy. I also believe that is has proven to be a failure.

    Then is public education socialist? Education is just as much a product as retirement security. The only difference (referring to this post) is that it is not operated by a "central government" but many local governments. Nevertheless, while you can get private education (as you can w/retirement), most people are educated publicly at some point in their lives, K-college.

    Personally, I think this is an example of wise socialism. You may not like everything about the public schools, but in concept, do you think there should be? Without them, you'd have poor people not able to go to school and some parents not sending kids to school because they'd rather put a three-season porch on the back of the house. The market fails when this happens, hence public schools.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    hippiemom wrote:
    Enjoy your vacation :)

    I don't get it.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    Then is public education socialist? Education is just as much a product as retirement security. The only difference (referring to this post) is that it is not operated by a "central government" but many local governments. Nevertheless, while you can get private education (as you can w/retirement), most people are educated publicly at some point in their lives, K-college.

    Personally, I think this is an example of wise socialism. You may not like everything about the public schools, but in concept, do you think there should be? Without them, you'd have poor people not able to go to school and some parents not sending kids to school because they'd rather put a three-season porch on the back of the house. The market fails when this happens, hence public schools.

    I'm down with public schools, but I'd say society gets much more benefit from education than from social security. SS is meant as a safety net while education is meant to make our students able to provide for themselves.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I'm down with public schools, but I'd say society gets much more benefit from education than from social security. SS is meant as a safety net while education is meant to make our students able to provide for themselves.

    Well, there's that and the fact that social security is going to be non-existant when we retire. I mean, education had better be around a little longer.

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