Left alone, a fertilized egg cell will separate and turn into a human being.
No, most of the time it won't. The vast majority of fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterine lining, and thus don't turn into anything more than a few cells that are washed away by the next menstrual cycle. That is why pregnancy is medically defined as beginning at implantation rather than conception.
As for myself, I think it is wrong to kill anything that has an awareness that it exists and/or the ability to feel pain. Although plants are clearly "alive," we have no evidence that they are aware of that fact, or that they feel pain, so I have no problem picking flowers off of them, pulling weeds, trimming trees, etc. Animals do seem to be aware that they exist, they have a strong will to live, and it is obvious that they feel pain, so I would not kill one unless it was trying to kill me.
After the time that a fetus has developed a central nervous system with the capacity to feel pain (some time in the 5th month), I oppose abortion unless it's necessary to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus is so seriously deformed that it would die in the womb or soon after birth anyway.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
No, most of the time it won't. The vast majority of fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterine lining, and thus don't turn into anything more than a few cells that are washed away by the next menstrual cycle. That is why pregnancy is medically defined as beginning at implantation rather than conception.
As for myself, I think it is wrong to kill anything that has an awareness that it exists and/or the ability to feel pain. Although plants are clearly "alive," we have no evidence that they are aware of that fact, or that they feel pain, so I have no problem picking flowers off of them, pulling weeds, trimming trees, etc. Animals do seem to be aware that they exist, they have a strong will to live, and it is obvious that they feel pain, so I would not kill one unless it was trying to kill me.
After the time that a fetus has developed a central nervous system with the capacity to feel pain (some time in the 5th month), I oppose abortion unless it's necessary to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus is so seriously deformed that it would die in the womb or soon after birth anyway.
Okay, "fertilized eggs that have attached to the uterine lining." Now what?
Carry on.
I heard an interesting story from Ron Paul about one time when he saw an abortion performed and he saw the parts of the fetus. He said they looked like a real human being, even before the "5th month." He concluded that he would never do such a thing.
In his career as an OB/GYN, Ron Paul has never had to abort a child to save the life of the mother and he's delivered over 4,000 babies. FOUR THOUSAND. I get tired of hearing pro-choice hacks claim that we need abortion to save the life of the mother. If 4,000 isn't a large enough sample size, I don't know what is.
You don't oppose abortion after the fetus's heart starts beating? Oh right that only occurs after 3 weeks. That's too soon!
Your arbitrary standards for abortion denote your disinterest in actually helping the child - your concern is solely for the mother. Everyone forgets the innocent child that did absolutely nothing to deserve his or her fate.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
By what objective truth is the Nazi killing of a Jew immoral?
Don't flame me with libelous "anti-semite" horseshit.
You made the point already. The difference is ideology which is subjective and hence morality is subjective. There are objective correlates to morality within the human and animal brains, however these typically only work with in-group members. So unless we embrace the world and all life as our own in-group, we will always morally justify the killing of another.
But I'm sure you can think of many reasons not to include Nazis and Hitler as your in-group and thus justify killing them.
First you'd need to prove that ideology is purely subjective then somehow prove that if ideology is subjective this means morality is.
I just read a study that pain can be felt at 8 weeks. The consensus varies widely, but abortion is inhumane after a certain stage no doubt about it.
I would say up until that point it is just a collection of cells without thought, feeling or awareness.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Okay, "fertilized eggs that have attached to the uterine lining." Now what?
Carry on.
I heard an interesting story from Ron Paul about one time when he saw an abortion performed and he saw the parts of the fetus. He said they looked like a real human being, even before the "5th month." He concluded that he would never do such a thing.
I don't see how what it looks like has anything to do with anything.
In his career as an OB/GYN, Ron Paul has never had to abort a child to save the life of the mother and he's delivered over 4,000 babies. FOUR THOUSAND. I get tired of hearing pro-choice hacks claim that we need abortion to save the life of the mother. If 4,000 isn't a large enough sample size, I don't know what is.
I didn't say it was common, I said that it happens, and that's one of the rare circumstances where I would support late-term abortion.
Your arbitrary standards for abortion denote your disinterest in actually helping the child - your concern is solely for the mother. Everyone forgets the innocent child that did absolutely nothing to deserve his or her fate.
Of course my concern is for the mother. I'm concerned about children once they are children, not potential future children.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
The one thing I can never understand about the general Anti-Abortion group is that they'll fight tooth and nail to get the kid out to the real world... then, tell them to go fuck themselves once they are out here.
It reminds me of the whole Christmas charity thing... the single mom with 2 kids and living on welfare is needy and we collect money and buy the kids presents and wrap them up and delivery them and we feel real good about ourselves... but, the rest of the year... the bitch should have kept her legs closed and is only looking for a hand out.
Seems to me... if you care about the unborn... why not care about them when they are take their first breath?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
No, most of the time it won't. The vast majority of fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterine lining, and thus don't turn into anything more than a few cells that are washed away by the next menstrual cycle. That is why pregnancy is medically defined as beginning at implantation rather than conception.
As for myself, I think it is wrong to kill anything that has an awareness that it exists and/or the ability to feel pain. Although plants are clearly "alive," we have no evidence that they are aware of that fact, or that they feel pain, so I have no problem picking flowers off of them, pulling weeds, trimming trees, etc. Animals do seem to be aware that they exist, they have a strong will to live, and it is obvious that they feel pain, so I would not kill one unless it was trying to kill me.
After the time that a fetus has developed a central nervous system with the capacity to feel pain (some time in the 5th month), I oppose abortion unless it's necessary to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus is so seriously deformed that it would die in the womb or soon after birth anyway.
Comments
As for myself, I think it is wrong to kill anything that has an awareness that it exists and/or the ability to feel pain. Although plants are clearly "alive," we have no evidence that they are aware of that fact, or that they feel pain, so I have no problem picking flowers off of them, pulling weeds, trimming trees, etc. Animals do seem to be aware that they exist, they have a strong will to live, and it is obvious that they feel pain, so I would not kill one unless it was trying to kill me.
After the time that a fetus has developed a central nervous system with the capacity to feel pain (some time in the 5th month), I oppose abortion unless it's necessary to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus is so seriously deformed that it would die in the womb or soon after birth anyway.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Okay, "fertilized eggs that have attached to the uterine lining." Now what?
Carry on.
I heard an interesting story from Ron Paul about one time when he saw an abortion performed and he saw the parts of the fetus. He said they looked like a real human being, even before the "5th month." He concluded that he would never do such a thing.
In his career as an OB/GYN, Ron Paul has never had to abort a child to save the life of the mother and he's delivered over 4,000 babies. FOUR THOUSAND. I get tired of hearing pro-choice hacks claim that we need abortion to save the life of the mother. If 4,000 isn't a large enough sample size, I don't know what is.
You don't oppose abortion after the fetus's heart starts beating? Oh right that only occurs after 3 weeks. That's too soon!
Your arbitrary standards for abortion denote your disinterest in actually helping the child - your concern is solely for the mother. Everyone forgets the innocent child that did absolutely nothing to deserve his or her fate.
-Enoch Powell
I don't know that I would consider this "moral" but it certainly is not immoral. Killing is not the same as murder.
First you'd need to prove that ideology is purely subjective then somehow prove that if ideology is subjective this means morality is.
I would say up until that point it is just a collection of cells without thought, feeling or awareness.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I didn't say it was common, I said that it happens, and that's one of the rare circumstances where I would support late-term abortion.
Again, I don't see what a heartbeat has to do with anything. You still can't hurt the fetus, because it can't feel anything.
Of course my concern is for the mother. I'm concerned about children once they are children, not potential future children.
It reminds me of the whole Christmas charity thing... the single mom with 2 kids and living on welfare is needy and we collect money and buy the kids presents and wrap them up and delivery them and we feel real good about ourselves... but, the rest of the year... the bitch should have kept her legs closed and is only looking for a hand out.
Seems to me... if you care about the unborn... why not care about them when they are take their first breath?
Hail, Hail!!!
Are you a vegetarian hippiemom?