Suicides forgotten

catefrances

lazymoon13 wrote:

as opposed to donating your time and money? um yes.

well you know, from where i stand, until the stigma of suicide as a selfish act is eradicated you can spend all the time and all the money you like and it still won't make a lick of difference. unless yove been there you dont understand. you can nod in all the right places, commiserate with the person but the bottom line is unless youve been there, youve really got no clue. from my experience people look at you like youve just told them youve screwed the dog. it's not generally something others care to know about. they dont want it touching them. and who can blame them, cause it sucks.

lazymoon13

catefrances wrote:

well you know, from where i stand, until the stigma of suicide as a selfish act is eradicated you can spend all the time and all the money you like and it still won't make a lick of difference.

you must be joking. yellowred said (and I agree) that drug abuse, homlessness, family abuse/neglect, are possible causes for suicide. would you agree? you do not believe if this guy donated his time and money to say a counseling center that listens/helps drug addicticed teens, that he might not save a person from suicide?

chime

I don't know about the ones Helen posted about but we have recently had some in the UK that they think are linked http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7261506.stm

... of course now it is a news story so each one in or near that town is a news story ...

catefrances

lazymoon13 wrote:

you must be joking. yellowred said (and I agree) that drug abuse, homlessness, family abuse/neglect, are possible causes for suicide. would you agree? you do not believe if this guy donated his time and money to say a counseling center that listens/helps drug addicticed teens, that he might not save a person from suicide?

no youre right i agree with you, health issues need to be taken seriously. but what if one is not homeless/ a drug addict/ or has not been molested? what about those people who go through their lives almost on auto pilot hiding their deepest fears and feelings from those around them because they are too afraid of being judged for something they cant control? thats what im talking about.

lazymoon13

catefrances wrote:

no youre right i agree with you, health issues need to be taken seriously. but what if one is not homeless/ a drug addict/ or has not been molested? what about those people who go through their lives almost on auto pilot hiding their deepest fears and feelings from those around them because they are too afraid of being judged for something they cant control? thats what im talking about.

I'm no expert on this subject but most of the time aren't warning signs there?

catefrances

lazymoon13 wrote:

I'm no expert on this subject but most of the time aren't warning signs there?

sometimes they're not seen until it's too late. hindsight is a wonderful thing isnt it?

lazymoon13

yellowled24 wrote:

*sigh* another thread ignored...i rest my case :(

make a difference..

http://www.suicidepreventionaust.org/Home.aspx

http://www.save.org/


for american's

http://www.afsp.org/

IAmMyself

My cousin, the only boy in our immediate family to carry on our last name committed suicide. He was bi-polar and stuck a shot gun in his mouth (remind you of anyone else?) the moment his father walked out of his home. They were arguing and trying to help him but couldn't.
I can tell you that the reason people who are closest to it, don't talk about it, is mainly because of guilt.
Just writing this post, brings so much back to the surface and it was so long ago.
I'm not saying my cousin killed himself because Kurt killed himself, but I am saying that their desperation level was the same. They both had a disease that even Dr.'s have an extremely hard time treating and getting people on the right meds and when they do get them on the right meds you still have to constantly make sure the person is taking their meds.
It's been so long now but he was like a brother to me, and I have a hard time going to the family dinners that we have many times a year, just because no one will speak of him, it just hurts way too much for all of us. We all failed him, miserably.

I am against guns, maybe for the wrong reason, but whatever. I feel that if he didn't have the gun, MAYBE he wouldn't have done it. The gun made it quick and easy for him. He may have found another way but this is how I feel, and I don't give a shit if you disagree with me-this is something I wear with me on a daily basis.
My best friends cousin killed himself as well, one reason we are so close. He was sick just like my cousin and used a gun.

I'm not sure if a sane, physically and mentally healthy person is really meant to understand why people kill themselves.

All I know, is that I have been ill since October of last year. Physically not mentally. I have been to soooooooooooo many Dr.'s and paid for a lot of it out of my own pocket. I have not been diagnosed with anything, even though it's hard to just get through the day. The people who love me the most, I'm sure are sick as hell to even have to listen to it anymore, that's just how I feel. For the first time in my life, I could understand why someone wouldn't want to go on this way. You get to a point where you just feel hopeless, and that no one can help you anyway.
Believe me, I'm not going to kill myself. I'm just saying that I can understand the desperation, even when you have people around you who love you and want to help, sometimes there is just nothing they can do, and you can convince yourself that it would just be better for everyone around you if you were not here.

So to go back to your original question, why is suicide not reported and why don't you ever hear of those deaths vs all the road deaths that you hear about on a nightly basis. My opinion is, you can prevent road deaths; better roads, better cars, more trained drivers. You aren't going to be able to do a damn thing if someone wants to check out of this life early. There is nothing you can say or do for someone who is convinced that is their only option. So why discuss it, when no one seems to have the answers.

TrixieCat

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I've read that generally people who commit suicide are extremely logical people with leanings towards mathematics/probability because these people have logically weighed the probability of the rest of their life involving happiness and all the good stuff against the possibility it will only get worse or stay the same. And they came to the conclusion that it was more likely for the rest of their life to be filled with more sadness and despair than any possible positive outcomes.

This is eerie...so true I imagine.
I don't think publicizing suicides is going to prevent them. If anything, like a couple people said, it will only glorify it. Yes, many, many people suffer as the result of a suicide, but at least someone finally cares, yes? In a perverted way, I think this is true.
Thank you to the person that posted the links for helping the cause.

catefrances

irieinindy wrote:

I'm not sure if a sane, physically and mentally healthy person is really meant to understand why people kill themselves.

firstly i am sorry for your loss.


it is an overwhelming feeling and i doubt if the person involved is having a difficult time holding on then other people would have a clue. thoughts of suicide are scary things to deal with and you dont know where they come from.. not really. you feel so out of place...as if this is the weirdest thing ever. you dont want to kill yourself, but you don't want to stay and you feel
as if you could just end it then things would be okay. death seems like the answer. and for many people it is.

Lazaris

Suicide has been an ongoing debate throughout human existence. According to the French philosopher Albert Camus, in "The Myth of Sisyphus", it is the only serious philosophical problem.

Various countries have national journalism codes which range from one extreme of, "Suicide and attempted suicide should in general never be given any mention." to a more moderate, "In cases of suicide, publishing or broadcasting information in an exaggerated way that goes beyond normal dimensions of reporting with the purpose of influencing readers or spectators should not occur.

One of the earliest known associations between the media and suicide arose from Goethe’s novel Die Leiden des jungen Werther (The Sorrows of Young Werther), published in 1774. In that work the hero shoots himself after an ill-fated love, and shortly after its publication
there were many reports of young men using the same method to commit suicide. This resulted in a ban of the book in several places, hence the term “Werther effect”, used to designate imitation (or copycat) suicides.

The media plays a significant role in today’s society by providing a very wide range of information in a variety of ways. They strongly influence community attitudes, beliefs and behaviour, and play a vital role in politics, economics and social practice. Because of that influence media can also play an active role in suicide. There is an unwritten rule amongst journalists that suicides are normally not reported since it is suggested that it may contribute to "copycat suicides". On occasions the media thinks its justified in reporting on suicides in certain situations, such as when it occurs in public institutions, celebrities or as part of some social phenomenon.

Suicide is classified under mental and behavioural disorders, so glorifying suicide victims as martyrs and objects of public adulation may suggest to susceptible persons that their society honours suicidal behaviour. Instead, the emphasis should be on mourning the person’s death. Overall, there is enough evidence to suggest that some forms of non-fictional newspaper and television coverage of suicide are associated with a statistically significant excess of suicide. The impact appears to be strongest among young people. The majority of suicides are not reported in the media, 95%. In fact, cases presented in the media are almost invariably atypical and uncommon, and to represent them as typical further perpetuates misinformation about suicide. Clinicians and researchers acknowledge that it is not news coverage of suicide per se, but certain types of news coverage, that increase suicidal behaviour in vulnerable populations. Certain types of coverage, on the other hand may help to prevent imitation of the suicidal behaviour. Nevertheless, there is always the possibility that publicity about suicide might make the idea of suicide seem “normal”.
Repeated and continual coverage of suicide tends to induce and promote suicidal preoccupations, particularly among adolescents and young adults.

I personally agree that suicide and any other death should be reported and in my opinion in much more detail (i.e.. graphically) in order to demystify death. Fear can be a great deterrent. Our society seems to hide away from death when it is only a single phase in our eternal existence no matter how it manifests itself.

catefrances

well thats all very well for camus to come to the conclusions he does. but for someone who's there, their logic may differ greatly and to them, camus could be full of shite.

Heineken Helen

Pj_Gurl wrote:

This is absolutely true angelica. There was a story that someone posted a little while ago (i think it was Helen from Ireland), where there were something like 20 odd suicides in the one small town amongst young people recently. One would suicide, everyone would post about it on their myspace account and then someone would copy them. They saw it as a way to get attention. Damn that was so awful to read.

Yep, that was me... this is being talked about in the media a good bit here. There was a young girl buried a couple of days ago and ya know by the way the article is worded that it was suicide... but the word was never used.

Chime, I was talking about bridgend indeed... although that's a very extreme case... I wouldn't be at all surprised if all's not how it appears there :eek:

Heineken Helen

Lazaris wrote:

I personally agree that suicide and any other death should be reported and in my opinion in much more detail (i.e.. graphically) in order to demystify death. Fear can be a great deterrent. Our society seems to hide away from death when it is only a single phase in our eternal existence no matter how it manifests itself.

I dunno... I think we see enough images of blown up bodies in the news... too many perhaps. Maybe we're all actually desensitised to the whole thing now.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

sometimes they're not seen until it's too late. hindsight is a wonderful thing isnt it?

With the suicide intervention training I've taken, we were taught that in one year alone (in Canada, in 2003, with a population of 31,669,300):

There were 3,765 suicides.

1: for each reported suicide there are 5% to 25% more suicides.

2: non-fatal suicidal behaviours are 40 - 100 times greater than the number of suicides.

3: 5% of the entire population have suicidal thoughts (1,583,4600 in Canada in one year alone).


Ultimately, there are a vast vast number of people who become suicidal and who practice suicidal behaviours and yet do not complete suicide. There are many, many ways the numerous clear and recognizable warning signs are acknowledged and used as an indicator in moving towards finding help by the person in pain, and by those around them, layperson and professional alike, in each and every day.

angelica

lazymoon13 wrote:

I'm no expert on this subject but most of the time aren't warning signs there?

Some potentially high risk groups:

the elderly
those with sexual identity/gender issues
aboriginal peoples
while women attempt suicide more regularly, men follow through more
those with a mental health diagnosis
someone who is in ongoing/chronic physical pain
anyone while abusing substances
someone who has a suicide plan..the more detailed the plan, or the more immediate the means of suicide are at hand, the higher the risk (ie: planning to hang one's self or jump from a window, or bridge is a high immediate risk, as is a plan to ingest stockpiled meds on hand)

Some signs are:
giving away possessions
withdrawal from friends/family/school/work
loss of interest in hobbies
reckless behaviour
extreme behaviour changes
impulsivity
self-mutilation
lack of interest in appearance
change/loss of sexual interest
disturbed sleep
changes/loss of appetite
physical health complaints
abuse of alcohol/drugs

angelica

irieinindy wrote:

My cousin, the only boy in our immediate family to carry on our last name committed suicide. He was bi-polar and stuck a shot gun in his mouth (remind you of anyone else?) the moment his father walked out of his home. They were arguing and trying to help him but couldn't.
I can tell you that the reason people who are closest to it, don't talk about it, is mainly because of guilt.
Just writing this post, brings so much back to the surface and it was so long ago.
I'm not saying my cousin killed himself because Kurt killed himself, but I am saying that their desperation level was the same. They both had a disease that even Dr.'s have an extremely hard time treating and getting people on the right meds and when they do get them on the right meds you still have to constantly make sure the person is taking their meds.
It's been so long now but he was like a brother to me, and I have a hard time going to the family dinners that we have many times a year, just because no one will speak of him, it just hurts way too much for all of us. We all failed him, miserably.

I am against guns, maybe for the wrong reason, but whatever. I feel that if he didn't have the gun, MAYBE he wouldn't have done it. The gun made it quick and easy for him. He may have found another way but this is how I feel, and I don't give a shit if you disagree with me-this is something I wear with me on a daily basis.
My best friends cousin killed himself as well, one reason we are so close. He was sick just like my cousin and used a gun.

I'm not sure if a sane, physically and mentally healthy person is really meant to understand why people kill themselves.

All I know, is that I have been ill since October of last year. Physically not mentally. I have been to soooooooooooo many Dr.'s and paid for a lot of it out of my own pocket. I have not been diagnosed with anything, even though it's hard to just get through the day. The people who love me the most, I'm sure are sick as hell to even have to listen to it anymore, that's just how I feel. For the first time in my life, I could understand why someone wouldn't want to go on this way. You get to a point where you just feel hopeless, and that no one can help you anyway.
Believe me, I'm not going to kill myself. I'm just saying that I can understand the desperation, even when you have people around you who love you and want to help, sometimes there is just nothing they can do, and you can convince yourself that it would just be better for everyone around you if you were not here.

So to go back to your original question, why is suicide not reported and why don't you ever hear of those deaths vs all the road deaths that you hear about on a nightly basis. My opinion is, you can prevent road deaths; better roads, better cars, more trained drivers. You aren't going to be able to do a damn thing if someone wants to check out of this life early. There is nothing you can say or do for someone who is convinced that is their only option. So why discuss it, when no one seems to have the answers.

I am very sorry to hear about your loss.

I also hear what you are saying. After spending years suicidal myself, I was shocked to find that my step-sister, after numerous efforts, actually committed suicide. I was angry and blamed our family environment, as I had felt their unhealthy effects many, many times. Then, due to my own experiences, I got into suicide intervention, accumulating some fairly indepth crisis skills - ie: psychiatrists and psychologists do not have the degree of crisis training I do. Last summer, I intensified my training. It was at this time that I fully let go of my judgment and blame of those who are around a suicidal individual. It is humbling that for as much as we know about suicide, there is SO much that we don't know yet. Yet, we do continue to move along and increase our understanding and knowledge Last fall, I found out my best friend's son was acting on suicidal tendencies. She took him for help, accessed numerous resources, including the local crisis centre, psychiatric help/meds, social workers and school guidance counsellors. He ended up taking his own life anyway. So, while for many individuals there are options and ways out, and many warning signs and options are utilized, and many suicidal thoughts are not followed through on, ultimately when an individual is set on ending their life, it is their choice. And it happens with sometimes alarming regularity.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

With the suicide intervention training I've taken, we were taught that in one year alone (in Canada, in 2003, with a population of 31,669,300):

There were 3,765 suicides.

1: for each reported suicide there are 5% to 25% more suicides.

2: non-fatal suicidal behaviours are 40 - 100 times greater than the number of suicides.

3: 5% of the entire population have suicidal thoughts (1,583,4600 in Canada in one year alone).


Ultimately, there are a vast vast number of people who become suicidal and who practice suicidal behaviours and yet do not complete suicide. There are many, many ways the numerous clear and recognizable warning signs are acknowledged and used as an indicator in moving towards finding help by the person in pain, and by those around them, layperson and professional alike, in each and every day.

oh absolutely angelica im very aware that suicidal ideation does not always lead to suicide. hence my saying, sometimes.

journeyman

yellowled24 wrote:

*sigh* another thread ignored...i rest my case :(

When I commit suicide, I don't want it reported in the news.

yellowled24

journeyman wrote:

When I commit suicide, I don't want it reported in the news.

wtf :eek:
What do you mean WHEN???????